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Oldest civilization in the world?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oldest civilization in the world?
    Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 16:06
Originally posted by catch22

Jerico, estimated 10.000 b.c.
 
 
Yeap. I believe Jerico is probably the oldest.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 16:15
Originally posted by Jina

Ancient civilizations are something like this but the actual ranking is almost imposible to account for so here goes

 

Sumerian, Egyptian, Harappan, Chinese, Mayan

 

It is so sad and shows how narrow minded most people are when they ignore the Meso-American civilizations and Harappa.

 
Well, Maya is a relatively modern civilization, contemporary to Han China and the Roman Empire. The oldest civilzations in Mesoamerica are the Olmecs, that are contemporary with Homeric Greece and Ancient Israel. The oldest civilizations in the Americas are from Peru, and they are from circa 3000 B.C. There are older cultural manifestations in the Americas, from 5.000 BC in the Peruvian and northern Chilean coast, but those weren't civilizations but modest cultures that planted cotton, developed weaving, and had mummies, but that lacked cities, so they weren't civilizations in the modern sense of the term.
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 16:22
Originally posted by Vamun Tianshu

How can we really know the oldest civilization,if all they mention is Asia and Eastern Europe?We canot really know for sure,becuase there were people living in America and Australia,and some experts speculate that life began in Africa.If it goes one-sided,we can never know for sure.
 
Civilization is a culture of cities. All human beings have a culture. That include our ancestral triabal peoples of Africa, and all the tribal cultures around the world. However, the comming of cities is more recent. For having that it is necesary the development of agriculture.
 
Man started to left Kenya about 60.000 years ago to populate the continents, and ended its Odyssey in the Americas only 15.000 years ago. However, the first cities start to appear not earlier that 10.000 years ago, and the first civilizations of importance not less than 5.000 years ago, in Mesopotamia.
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 22-Nov-2008 at 23:28
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  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 16:39
Pinguin, I think Caral or Norte Chico should count as a civilization, although it is younger than Sumer, it is still pretty old. They call it the Norte Chico civilization, so it suggest to me that it was a civilization. That was probably started at least 5000 years ago. And flourishing at least 2627 BC, because it has one of the most accurate datings ever of an ancient structure.
 
Still, I also believe the oldest is Jericho - but I would assume that it was not alone in the ancient world. So, maybe the oldest, or just the oldest yet found. First settlement was not a big city, but a small town, so whether this is an actual civilization I don't know.
 
 
Thought about the origin of farming, with relation to the earliest "cities."
 


Edited by Jams - 22-Nov-2008 at 16:56
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 04:33
Well, I am not quite sure if Norte Chico is a civilization as we conceive it today. Yes, it is a very old culture, dating from 5,000 years ago, and quite interesting, indeed. Perhaps the oldest in the Americas. However, in the Old World there are cultures of equivalent level of development since 10.000 years ago, as is the case of Jerico.
 
In general, civilization in the Americas is younger than in the Old World. Not as much as once was believed, but the scales of development are most of the time behind of what Eurasia achieved in a given time. Which is not so strange, given that the Americas was the last continent in being peopled.
 
 
 
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 08:24

Norte Chico civilization in Peru had cities (eg Caral) beginning c. 2800 BC so a few things will have to be displaced ...

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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 08:27

Originally posted by pinguin

Well, I am not quite sure if Norte Chico is a civilization as we conceive it today. Yes, it is a very old culture, dating from 5,000 years ago, and quite interesting, indeed. Perhaps the oldest in the Americas. However, in the Old World there are cultures of equivalent level of development since 10.000 years ago, as is the case of Jerico.

Jericho in 8000 BC was not the equivalent of Caral in 3000 BC ... it was just inhabited (not a city). Alot of sites making the claim for "oldest city in the world" make their claim on the basis of being continuously inhabited (not necessarily a city) for that whole period - Jericho is one of them. 

Caral appears to have been roughly equivalent to the earliest Mesopotamian cities - trade, monumental architecture etc. Sumeria didn't just pop out of the ground fully formed! It, too, had a long period of really primitive urban centres.



Edited by edgewaters - 23-Nov-2008 at 08:29
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  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 17:33
I find Jericho confusing in a way. It contains twenty or so layers of settlement, but only the bottom layer is this old age. The top layers are far newer. Somehow it is the size of the top layers that is described when the size of the city is estimated. That is the impression I get from sources on the Internet.
The whole thing, the tell, is about 400 x 100 metres, so the term "city" must be relative. That is the size of the last build-up, but not necessarily the size of the oldest town.
Is there any real estimate of the oldest settlements there? I mean the true size of it?
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 08:14
from 9500 years ago to 8000 years ago.
Catalhoyuk in Anatolia covered an extension of 14 hectares and a population of up to 10,000 people (with 5000-8000 being the most common figures).
They lived in dense mud-brick houses, grew crops, herded animals, and hunted wild beasts.
 
Nevetheless, they had no division of labour, no writing language (but wall paintings that told stories), so I don't know whether we could classify it as a "civilization" in the strict sense.
 
What they did have was probaby the oldest map in the world.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 12:22

Writing language it is not a requirement for civilization; Incas' lacked it, for example. What is a requirement is to live in cities. I really doubt Catalhoyuk's society didn't have labour division, because 10.000 people living in a city is enough to trigger that effect.

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  Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2008 at 04:39
Yes I remember reading about Catalhoyuk I heard that it was supposed to be around 10,000 years old, I beleive it lies in the Tarsus region and I think it was famous for its obsidian.
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2008 at 00:09
The oldest civilizations are probably Sumerian and Elamite.
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  Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2008 at 02:01
how about the Hurrians?
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  Quote athenas owl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2008 at 19:21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe
Göbekli Tepe

The oldest known temple in the world, predating the Agricultural Revolution by a few thousand years, if memory serves.   Perhaps not a civilisation as such, but evidence of some very early movement towards one.   A temple complex built by hunter gatherers in Southwest Turkey. The oldest "temples" date back some 11,000 years.   

There were possibly still ice sheets on the Mountains of Turkey, Iran and the Caucusas. The Wurm glacial period didn't really end until about 10,000 years ago.
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  Quote emperor charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 11:50
First, I wish people would answer the question posed.

The oldest civilizations are:

Sumerian
Egyptian 
Anatolian
Indian (Indo Aryan)
Mycenean


Sumerians weren't Arabs nor were Egyptians nor Anatolians

But in modern day Turkey there are ruins and remains of Ancient people dating back to 6000 BC
There are human remains in North America (Grand Canyon area) dating back to 9000 BC though these are not representative of a civilization, whatever that is.
 
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 16:25
It's hard to call Catal Hoyuk a civilization because it's just a single site.

If you had a network of similar sites in the area, on the other hand, there's no reason it couldn't be described as such.
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 18:36
I think we have to adequately define "civilisation" to make any sense of the question. The temple that predates the agricultural revolution above probably does constitute, as a coherent socio-cultural system is needed in order to create something like that, and, we can assume, a political. If, however, we are to consider that writing formulates a civilisation, as it presents a literary and historical heritage, as well as an awareness of their own past, we'd have to restrict the boundaries to c.3000 BC Mesopotamia and Egypt. I'm not sure if the legendary dynasties of China such as the Xia and the Shang would constitute - as I'm not that familiar with them and I don't know if they have much archeological evidence associated with them. If we are to speak of a nation state to constitute a civilisation - with the ability to exert administrative control over a large area, aside from just a city-state - we would have to state that "civilisation" must be placed with Sargon of Akkad, c.2200 BC. However, I am in favour of a socio-cultural model - the idea of a "nation state" with de-centralised power is hard to harmonise with such ancient cultures, and if we use the above model, then technically, Rome and Greece wouldn't be civilisations! The word is usually a cultural epithet - we don't hear of individual states within Greece, the levsant or Mesopotamia being reffered to as "civilisations", so I think we have to say which people had the largest cultural vibrance and most advanced society. Sorry...ramble!
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 20:34
The word "civilization" originally means "living in a city".
So a human settlement would only be called a civilizations if it could be classed as a city.
What defines a city then?
It would be a congregation of over a few thousand people where there is a clear division of labour and an administration system; where the inhabitants engage in agricultural, production, and commercial activities.
 
Early settlements such as Jerico and Catalhoyuk could hardly be referred to as "civilizations" because despite their relatively large populations, the inhabitants subsisted on agriculture only; so effectively they were simply oversized villages.
 
 
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 22:49
The word "civilization" originally means "living in a city".
 
That may be the literal and etymological basis for the word, but frankly, the connotation means a lot more - the word is hardly ever used just to reffer to one city, and usually is instead reffers to a large group of people that share a similar and influencial culture over a fairly large geographical area. I'd have to say, from that basis, Mesopotamia or Egypt.
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  Quote indian tamil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 08:45

indian civlization is the oldest

there are many riddles which yet not resolved properly in indian history

if it resolved the whole world will stun

the civilization is because of indians

can u date any civilization inthe whole world predating around 10000BC y?

do u know y islam and abrahamic religions?

do u know anything about tamils(dravidians/indians)

do u ever heard about kumari continent

do u know which is the oldest continuing civlization?

do u know y all the major civilizations have some sort of flood stories or atlantis like such things about their ancestors?

if u answer these questions u will come to know which is the oldest civlization

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