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Oldest civilization in the world?

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Maljkovic View Drop Down
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  Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oldest civilization in the world?
    Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:36

1.Melunhnan 7500 BC

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 22:58
Can you explain, Maljkovic? 

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  Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 06:06
Recent discovery of a sunken city at the bay of Combay was dated back 9500 years ago.
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  Quote Assyrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2006 at 15:35

Assyria is located in north Mesopotamia and spans four countries: In Syria it extends west to the Euphrates river; in Turkey it extends north to Harran, Edessa, Diyarbakir, and Lake Van; in Iran it extends east to Lake Urmi, and in Iraq it extends to about 100 miles south of Kirkuk. This is the Assyrian heartland, from which so much of the ancient Near East came to be controlled.

Two great rivers run through Assyria, the Tigris and the Euhprates, and many lesser ones, the most important of which being the Upper Zab and Lower Zab, both tributaries to the Tigris. Strategically surrounding the Tigris and the two Zabs are the Assyrian cities of Nineveh, Ashur, Arbel, Nimrod and Arrapkha.

To the north and east of Assyria lie the Taurus and Zagros mountains. To the west and south lies a great, low limestone plateau. At the southern end of Assyria the gravel plains give way to alluvium deposited by the Tigris, and farther south there is insufficient rainfall for agriculture without irrigation. These two features create a geogrpahical boundary between Assyria and the neighboring land to the south.

Assyrians have used two languages throughout their history: ancient Assyrian (Akkadian), and Modern Assyrian (neo-syriac). Akkadian was written with the cuneiform writing system, on clay tablets, and was in use from the beginning to about 750 B.C.. By 750 B.C., a new way of writing, on parchment, leather, or papyrus, was developed, and the people who brought this method of writing with them, the Arameans, would eventually see their language, Aramaic, supplant Ancient Assyrian because of the technological breakthrough in writing. Aramaic was made the second official language of the Assyrian empire in 752 B.C. Although Assyrians switched to Aramaic, it was not wholesale transplantation. The brand of Aramaic that Assyrians spoke was, and is, heavily infused with Akkadian words, so much so that scholars refer to it as Assyrian- Aramaic.

Assyria

Mesopotamia was home to some of the oldest major ancient civilizations, including the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians and Assyrians. They were all one people and spoked the same language. There were no differences between them.  My conclusion is that everybody knows that the world first civilisation started in Mesopotamia. Many scientist, professors and archaeologist have evidence and proved that it started with Mesopotamia..

 

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 04:09

Mesopotamia was home to some of the oldest major ancient civilizations, including the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians and Assyrians. They were all one people and spoked the same language. There were no differences between them. 

The Sumerians spoke "Sumerian", a language totally unrelated to Akkadian (i.e. Old Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian).  Sumerian was an agglutinative language, whereas Akkadian languages were inflective languages. 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 10:19
Glad that you said it, Sharrukin, Summerians are the oldest known and they spoke something that is unrelated to any other language (speculatively it could be Austric).

Akkadians, Assyrians and Baylonians (Chaldeans) were three diferent but related Semitic peoples. Most diferent seem the Assyrians, at least culturally but guess that Assyrian could be right making them descendant of Akkadians - just hypothetically. Chaldeans seem Amorites (aka Canaanites or Phoenicians), not Akadians nor Assyrians.

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  Quote Polish Rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 23:52
Anybody ever consider the Minoan civilization?
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  Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 07:20

Originally posted by Polish Rob

Anybody ever consider the Minoan civilization?

Minoans were an ofshot of Egypt.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 08:17
Minoans were not any offshot of Egypt (though they have some infuences)...

But Minoans are too young. Minoan civilization starts only c. 2000 BCE.




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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 10:46

TURKISH ...BC 7500

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Iranian41ife View Drop Down
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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 10:56

oldest civilisation!

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 10:58
YES OLDEST CIVILISATION
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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 11:01

omg, this is a history forum, if you just joined to cause trouble, then you will get banned really quickly. 

 

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 11:06
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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 11:10

first of all, that is turkish, second of all, we are not talking about the oldest people, we are talking about the oldest civilisation!  if you want to go by the oldest people,

the iranians, basques, etc.. africans, aborigines, etc...

this is an oldest civilisation thread.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote merced12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 12:17
Originally posted by prsn41ife

omg, this is a history forum, if you just joined to cause trouble, then you will get banned really quickly. 

 

yeah like you

http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 12:30

u.... like me?? have a look around the this sub forum. look at how many threads i have made.

yet when someone comes in here with only 10 posts, and is trolling, then it shows why they have joined the forum.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 12:35
Just ignore the ultra-nationalist.
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 01:27
Guys,
 
          Where has the Indian civilization gone, are u ignorant or have u included the Indian civilization as part of Iranian, if u did so, u are the most ignorant of all beings

     And the Indian civilizatiion is the only ancient civilization still in existence, and the rest of the civilization have gone.

   What do u mean by saying Indian civilization gone....

Ask any knowledgebal Hindu about what period the World is in at present, he will tell you, ....Indians and Hindus believe they are presently in kaliyug(the length of which is 432,000 years)..and according to our ancient texts the there are four such periods with  below is an extract of what our ancient texts say ...


ONE COSMIC DAY OF CREATOR BRAHMA

(as per Hindu scriptures, particularly the Srimad-Bhagavatam)
  • The one day is divided into 14 periods. Six such periods are over. We are now in the 7th.
  • Each period is named after the One Ruler who is appointed to rule the entire earthly world during that period. The generic name for such a ruler is Manu. The period is called a Manvantara.
  • The name of the present Manu is Vaivasvata, the son of the Sun-God.
  • How long is the day of Brahma ? (4.32 billion years)
  • What is the present age of this universe ?
  • What is the Hindu concept of Time ?

Names of the manvantaras of this day of Brahma upto the present seventh.
(each manvantara is of duration 306,720,000 human years)

1.Svaayambhuva Beginning of Creation
Dhruva Episode
Descent of the Lord as Half-man-half-lion to blessPrahlada
2.Svaarochisha The Episode of King Suratha
3. Uttama
4.Taamasa The Episode of Gajendra, the elephant-devotee
5. Raivata
6. Chaakshusha The churning of the Ocean of milk

             7. Vaivasvata          PRESENT MANVANTARA
                       
There are seven more manvantaras to go in the future

We are in the 7th manvantara .
Each manvantara is divided into 71 maha-yugas.
We are in the 28th maha-yuga of this manvantara.
Each maha-yuga is divided into 4 yugas shown below for the current maha-yuga.

 

We are presently in the kaliyuga
of the 28th maha-yuga
of the 7th manvantara of Brahmas day
(Duration of every kali-yuga = 432,000 years)
Notation
l: = 432,000

 

Age of the Universe

Portion of Brahmas day elapsed so far
(till say, 2000 A.D.) consists of

Duration Table

  • 6 manvantara-twilights (6 x 4l )
  • 6 manvantaras completed (6 x71 x10l )
  • 1 manvantara-twilight before the 7th (4 l )
  • 27 maha-yugas past in this manvantara (27 x 10l )
  • elapsed yugas in this maha-yuga ((4 + 3 + 2) l )
  • 5102 years in kali-yuga

This adds up to 4567 l + 5102 =
                       1,972,949,102 human years
This is the present (as of 2000A.D.) age of the universe in this day of Brahma

Duration of Kali-yuga (l ) =
                              432,000 (human years)
Duration of Dvapara-yuga (2
l )
Duration of Treta-yuga (3
l )
Duration of Satya-yuga (4
l )
Duration of maha-yuga:
               (
l + 2 l + 3 l + 4l ) = 10l
Duration of manvantara: 71 x 10l
Duration of one manvantra- twilight : 4l
          (one before every manvantara)

 

Duration of Brahmas day

One day of Brahma is of duration equivalent to 1000 mahayugas. His night is equally long. At the beginning of every day creation starts. At the end of the day all that was created merge in the Absolute and Brahma sleeps as it were. 360 such days and nights make one year of Brahma. According to the Puranas, He has spent 50 years like this and this day is the first day in his fifty-first year!

One day of Brahma  = 14 manvantaras + 15 manvantara twilights
(because there is an extra manvantara - twilight at the end of all the 14 manvantaras)

= 14 x 71 mahayugas + 15 x 4 l
= 994 mahayugas + 60 l
= 994 mahayugas + 6 mahayugas
= 1000 mahayugas
= 1000 x10
l = 4,320,000,000 human years.


Names of the remaining seven (future) manvantaras of this day of Brahma

  • 8 Saavarni   ------------------->
  • 9 Daksha-saavarni
  • 10 Brahma-saavarni
  • 11 Dharma-saavarni
  • 12 Rudra-saavarni
  • 13 Deva-saavarni
  • 14 Indra-saavarni

    after which cosmic night will follow

The next Manu (i.e., the eighth) will be Saavarni. This promise was made by Mother Goddess to one King Suratha during the second Manvantara. To him (and another) the triple story of Mother Goddess is narrated in the Devi-bhagavatam ( also Chandi or Durg A-saptasati ). The story begins from a mythological event that happened after the end of the last kalpa (= day of Brahma) and ends up by forecasting the feats of Mother Goddess that are yet to happen in this kalpa. One such is the prediction that Suratha will be born as Manu Saavarni.

                                 A mind that cannot comprehend to such times call all these things myths,  these were callled myths until the scientists by their own tools put the age of earth ot 4 billion years....but this is what from acient times the Hindus beleived.....
                                Now its time the Iranians grabbed this one too and make this their part of civilisation....
                              Anyone who has such info is got to be the oldest civilization , the mayans, the aztechs and a few other had similar views but not in such detail, so it got to be Indian civilization the oldest of all.
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  Quote Gloval Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 00:43

We get the point, hindus make irrelevant the idea of linear time. As i recall kali yuga means we are about to "restart" the cycle sometime in the next few aeons. But these ideas came after the established middle eastern civilizations since they were passed down sometime after 1500 bce i think. Their origins could go deeper but the indus valley didn't exist as a civilization until after the mid eastern ones took off.

i don't think it makes sense to call some of the ancient civilizations iranian though, it's like calling babylon an iraqi civilization. I know most people are aware of that, but i think i saw some people just lumping everything from iran as iranian.
    

Edited by Gloval - 30-Jun-2006 at 00:44
You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.
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