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why didn't ancient persia ever conquer india?
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: why didn't ancient persia ever conquer india?
    Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 12:38
India wasn't a nation, it was many nations. However being rich isn't a reason to invade, alone.
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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 13:01
Originally posted by Sparten

I can't believe that people are discounting Persian influence east of Sistan, please what was the official language here for 600 years? AMir Khusro, our own Iqbal, whose tomb can be found in Bilals city? Obviously it has been a lot more prnounced in what is now Pakistan then anywhere else due to sheer geography.

         
 
               You are of course referring to the Mughals, which proves my point. After the Islamization of Persia Persian civilization was the new Islamic Civilization especially for the areas to the east and north east of Persia. Ironically Perisan culture spread much more under Islam than it otherwise in all likelihood would have, the only real serious casuality being Zoarastrainism.  
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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 13:05
Originally posted by Paul

Why would Persia want to conquer India?
 
        Persia wanted to rule the whole world.LOL
 
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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 13:12
Originally posted by AP Singh

They persians were not fools for not doing so since India was much more powerful than them at the time under the Gujjar Pratihar Emperors and in case of attack India the Persian Empire would have been lost to Gujjar Pratihar Emperors. This question should be asked in a reverse manner that why the Gujjar Pratihars Emperors of India  even after having an army size of 80 Lakhs did not conquer Persia? It is because there was nothing to invade, in Persia that time since the horses and elephants used by the armies, could not be fed on petrol and diesel.
Hypothetically it is true that in present circumstances the Gujjar Pratihar Emperors would have conquered Persia to take control on vast reserve of oil in that region but the people are more civilised now.
It was Gujjar Power which defended India from 6th. century to 10th. century and it was possible the enter India from Arab side after the various fuedatories like Gujjar Tanwars of Delhi, Gujjar Chauhans of Sakambri, Gujjar Chandellas of Kalinjar,Gujjar Solankis of Patan, Gujjar Parmars of Dhar asserted independence from the Gujjar Pratihar empire and started fighting among themselves to gain supremacy over each other. Taking the advantage of the situation the other non Gujjar fuedatories like Kalchuris, and vassals like  Rathors Kachwahs also formed their own state. At this point of time also it was not Persian empire which got hold  in India but the Turks like Gaznavi and Ghori from Afghnistan. Since that part of afghanistan from where Gaznavi and Ghori belonged, was ruled by Gujjar Emperors, it can not be said that India was conquered but the right word will be that it was divided. These Turks were earlier Hindus only and the only difference between them and other Hindus were that these Afghans were converted to Muslim at earlier than other population.
 
Later India was conquered by Babar who was from present day Uzbekistan. That time also it were the Pathans who were among the most powerful ruler of India. They kept fighting among themselves and India was in fact offered to Babar. Later Sher Shah Suri expelled his Humayun from India and established Indian Empire again.
It was akbar who was the first alien ruler of India.   
 
   I think there were no Gujjars in 500 B.C. The time frame about which we are talking about about.
    And Turks were never Hindus, niether were they the natives of Afghanistan.


Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 28-Feb-2008 at 15:21
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 15:28
Originally posted by Paul

India wasn't a nation, it was many nations. However being rich isn't a reason to invade, alone.


Says who? This is what I posted in another thread and does answer your question well. Also is there anyother more powerful reason to invade then greed?

India was one entity with a common culture, religion and political ethos from kashmir to kanykumari and  afghanistan to  bangladesh. If british had not come, mughals were already puppets in the hands of marathas and princely states of rajasthan. India would have gone back to various monarchies ruled by different clans but would have politically behaved as a single entity.




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Posts: 1673 		  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 16:47
Just keep dreaming about how big and powerful was India (in that era) and no one dared to attack India. India was the most powerful and richest country in the world and small empires like Persian empire and Macedonian empire didn't dare to attack her. Indian warrior were so fierce even the Romans couldn't beat them. In fact all the treasures of the world were in India. All other countries had nothing interesting and lived in poverty, so powerful Indian emperors never wanted to conquer other countries...#@!Confused Hey wake up! if the Indians were that much brave and fierce how come they never conquered Persia, China, central Asia or near east?

@ ruffian: You live in fantasy man. Talking about Persian empire had noting worth to conquer, just ask Greek and Macedonian fellows about how much treasure Persians had . They were surprised from amount of treasure they found in Persepolis and other Persian cities.




Edited by Suren - 28-Feb-2008 at 19:16
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 17:46
No, it's true.  Bharat could have overrun the world...but it didn't need to, much like today's India.  Just be thankful Hindi isn't your first language today.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 05:28
Originally posted by ruffian


India was one entity with a common culture, religion and political ethos from kashmir to kanykumari and  afghanistan to  bangladesh. If british had not come, mughals were already puppets in the hands of marathas and princely states of rajasthan. India would have gone back to various monarchies ruled by different clans but would have politically behaved as a single entity.

That is so totally wrong when I saw it in the other thread I didn't even bother about refuting it.
The subcontient has never behaved as a single political entity even during the periods when it was one.
Every country in India, whether native or foriegn, has been able to take this bit, then that bit, sign a treaty with them, and then wage war of them.

Your source manages to be both superficial and biased. You wouldn't even realise that the "great" Hindu resistance lost, or that the British weren't even on the scene when the Maratha confederacy had its hopes of succeeding the Mughal empire smashed - at Panipat, by the Afghans.

Name me one occasion when one political entity in India has aided another political entity soley because they were fellow "Indians". When did Kerala aid the Rajputs?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 06:02
That would be..............never.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 06:03
Originally posted by Zagros

No, it's true.  Bharat could have overrun the world...but it didn't need to, much like today's India.  Just be thankful Hindi isn't your first language today.
Hindi is the first language of about 1% of India today.
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Posts: 10 		  Quote innocent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 08:04
Indians are divided on Caste and Language..
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 11:49
Originally posted by Suren

Just keep dreaming about how big and powerful was India (in that era) and no one dared to attack India. India was the most powerful and richest country in the world and small empires like Persian empire and Macedonian empire didn't dare to attack her. Indian warrior were so fierce even the Romans couldn't beat them. In fact all the treasures of the world were in India. All other countries had nothing interesting and lived in poverty, so powerful Indian emperors never wanted to conquer other countries...#@!Confused Hey wake up! if the Indians were that much brave and fierce how come they never conquered Persia, China, central Asia or near east?


You are confusing multiple issues. India was rich, rather very rich. Do you dispute this? Please provide sources that we can browse.

India was attacked. It is recorded well. But what happened to the attackers and what effect they had on India is what is interesting. Then there is hyperbole that India was beaten multiple times. Mostly the view of apologists and court historians of the attackers! Local records point diametrically opposite facts.
Originally posted by Suren


@ ruffian: You live in fantasy man. Talking about Persian empire had noting worth to conquer, just ask Greek and Macedonian fellows about how much treasure Persians had . They were surprised from amount of treasure they found in Persepolis and other Persian cities.

Please point our where I said persians had nothing worth conquering.
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 11:50
Originally posted by Zagros

No, it's true.  Bharat could have overrun the world...but it didn't need to, much like today's India.  Just be thankful Hindi isn't your first language today.

Sorry. what do you mean by hindi not your first lang?
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 11:54
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by ruffian


India was one entity with a common culture, religion and political ethos from kashmir to kanykumari and  afghanistan to  bangladesh. If british had not come, mughals were already puppets in the hands of marathas and princely states of rajasthan. India would have gone back to various monarchies ruled by different clans but would have politically behaved as a single entity.

That is so totally wrong when I saw it in the other thread I didn't even bother about refuting it.
The subcontient has never behaved as a single political entity even during the periods when it was one.
Every country in India, whether native or foriegn, has been able to take this bit, then that bit, sign a treaty with them, and then wage war of them.

Your source manages to be both superficial and biased. You wouldn't even realise that the "great" Hindu resistance lost, or that the British weren't even on the scene when the Maratha confederacy had its hopes of succeeding the Mughal empire smashed - at Panipat, by the Afghans.

Name me one occasion when one political entity in India has aided another political entity soley because they were fellow "Indians". When did Kerala aid the Rajputs?


Your personal opinion is not very relevant unless you are a professional historian and have published peer-reviewed material. If you have it please point us so that we can read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilson_Hunter, WIliam Hunter was a historian who knew India very well and the pages in earlier post are his work. Before you laugh of credible sources please proivde holes in his argument so that they can be evaluated.

If you are talking about confederacy there are many example in north india. Take the rout that Prithviraj Chauhan gave to Mohammed Ghori. There was a confederacy of rajput kings under his aegis.






Edited by ruffian - 29-Feb-2008 at 11:58
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 11:59
Originally posted by Sparten

That would be..............never.

What would be never?
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 12:00
Originally posted by Sparten

Originally posted by Zagros

No, it's true.  Bharat could have overrun the world...but it didn't need to, much like today's India.  Just be thankful Hindi isn't your first language today.
Hindi is the first language of about 1% of India today.


Is this a joke or are you serious because if you are serious then I can provide you data to the contrary.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 13:51
No. Dead serious. Maydan mein ah jahain.
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 14:57
Originally posted by Sparten

No. Dead serious. Maydan mein ah jahain.

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Posts: 409 		  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 15:10
    I think that this thread has gotten a bit too rough. The direct answer to the question of this thread should be that India was a lot larger than both Babylonia and Egypt the two other major civilizations which the Persians were able to take but they hold some part of Punjab and Ghandhara and Balochistan for some time. 
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Posts: 62 		  Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2008 at 16:27
Originally posted by bilal_ali_2000

    I think that this thread has gotten a bit too rough. The direct answer to the question of this thread should be that India was a lot larger than both Babylonia and Egypt the two other major civilizations which the Persians were able to take but they hold some part of Punjab and Ghandhara and Balochistan for some time. 


There are no archaeological remains which point to the occupation of Punjab by persians.
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