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Torlak - What is the meaning of the word/name

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  Quote Onogur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Torlak - What is the meaning of the word/name
    Posted: 16-Feb-2008 at 22:58

As long as I  know, "Torlak" is the name of a south-slavic dialect, spoken in parts of Serbia, Bulgaria, and Macedonia. Also, the people who speak this dialect are called Torlaks. It is quite interesting, because it really does not sound as a slavic word.

 
Anyway, I have recently found out that Torlak is also a Scandinavian/Germanic name and even that there is a saint with that name in Iceland. I also discovered that the name comes after the scandinavian god Thor.
 
It might be just a coincidence.
 
In 13-14th centuries there was a migration of Saxon miners from Upper Harz and Westphalia to the Balkans. Many of them settled in ore-rich regions and founded their towns. Some of their "colonies" were in the range of today's "Torlak" area.
 
 
It is supposed that some of the Saxons were Catholics and some still worshiped pagan gods, probably Germanic or Scandinavian. One of these gods was Thunor or Thor with his hammer - Mjolnir. The name Thor is an element of many names including Torlak.
 
So, I am asking if anybody in this forum knows something about the origins of the slav dialect's name "Torlak" and if there are any possible connections with the Nordic/Germanic god Thor?!
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2008 at 23:37

 

Regarding the name, it's a compound name, consisting of Thor (the god), and lkr, which I means "game" (as in playing a game). Names as this were very common. People sometimes named their children with names where one was part the same, eg Thorfinn, Thorleif etc.
 
 
And as for the Torlakians - probably pure coincidence.
 
By the 13th century there were hardly pagans even in Scandinavia, as far as I know the Saxons were firmly converted. Though religion doesn't matter, I have 'Thor' in my name now, after a 1000 years of Christendom Wink
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  Quote Onogur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 00:16
Styrbiorn,
 
Thank you for the fast reply. Good to know what the second part of the word "Torlak" means. Smile 
 
Yes, it is probably just a coincidence and the only think that still bothers me about the origin of the name of the Slavic Torlakians is that "Torlak"  is not a word with a slavic origin.
I was first going after another theory - about the Turkic origin of the word (Turkish, Bulgar or Kuman) but I failed to find any proof. Although, they have this name - Torlak in Turkey too. But the origin?! So, after that I went after the "Germanic possible origin" by explaining  its existing in Turkey with the Varangian descendents. Still no success... Cry
 
Anyways, thank you again... Smile I will keep "investigating"!
 
And, by the way there were still many pagans or at least preserved pagan rituals all over northern Europe long after 13th century. And still, it's the name that bothers me, not the religion. Smile
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 08:15
Well it reminds me Torlak Kemal Smile
He was a rebel in 15.century Turkey....

Edited by erkut - 18-Feb-2008 at 08:20
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2011 at 03:33
We use it to describe place where do animals live:fenced place.Smell as torlak derive from this!Original was
that Thor(fence) protect animals inside.Nordic God inside "Slavic" language?
Looking football with Norwegian commentator,Thorrr was  spoken always,after ball entered the goal!Fenced place=Thor as protector.


Edited by medenaywe - 30-Apr-2011 at 05:09
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  Quote Thor Ancestry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2011 at 15:14
I have heard that my last name have nordic roots, since one lady from Iceland asked my wife where you got that last name + adding of this "ovic" in the Balkans. What a coincidence. But Positive
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2011 at 15:57
Maybe Bachilovic will be more appropriate for you!Place that is nursery for sheep this one describes.Regards.



Edited by medenaywe - 18-Oct-2011 at 09:08
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2011 at 16:02
Why don't you join us Thor? We have many more Viking and Dark Ages-related topics of interest to you:

Viking weapons
Berserkers
Vandals
Viking books
Sutton Hoo
Edricus the traitor
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2011 at 23:14
Torlak in Turkish 

Tor-lak; a person or thing which/who is Tor. "-lak" is a kind of add to create nouns

1-young man/ beginner-inexperienced guy
2-a bit fat little boy / young handsome man
3-young domestic animal for camels, cows, horses
4-health sapling
5-being naked

also a surname in Turkey
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2012 at 19:55
Coincidentally, nudity was an important part of pagan worship. Cultists believed being skyclad put them in touch with the spirit world and gave them protection in battle
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2012 at 11:36
Torlak means "braggard".
there is non-standardised verb "torokati (infinitive)
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/torokati
First Serbian dictionary (Vuk Karadzic, 1852) gave explanation "Grossspracher".
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 12:50
Originally posted by Vdkn67

Torlak means "braggard".
there is non-standardised verb "torokati (infinitive)
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/torokati
First Serbian dictionary (Vuk Karadzic, 1852) gave explanation "Grossspracher".

The god Thor was also a braggart. He was challenged by a giant to an eating contest, drinking contest, and wrestling match with an old woman. He lost the eating contest because his opponent, fire, devoured the plates as well as the food. He lost the drinking contest because his cup was the sea. The old woman beat him at wrestling because she was time and never tired
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 16:01
torlak is turkic word in turkmen it can have a lot of meaing you must enlighten me  what kind of word it is

is it a verb ? or name ? if i shift torlak form turkmen to english it become toric more example

iron = demr ironic = demrlak but it still depend on kind of word torlak can use as surname also we have other surnames with tor origin like torric (tor-ric) very similar to alric
yomud are free people
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 10:55
I do not see obvious reason why "I must to enlight..."
There are several studies on pre XIII century Turkish language, I can not find any connection with root Torr, nor there were any Turkish people at Balkan before Ottoman conquests.  I can not find any direct loans before mentioned period.
Not to mention that loans were bi-directional.

Also I am not ready to find any connection with ultimatelly Germanic Thor, as even Slavs and Germans had language contacts and loans were usual, Slavs migrated southern as "Slavs", so Torlak name was given exclusively as description of way they speak: distorted morphology, only four out of seven declensions etc.



Edited by Vdkn67 - 20-Dec-2012 at 11:08
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 11:00
It is pejorative here.Even if Tor/Thor means corral:
http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=tor+za+stoku
  Torlak here describes smelt of corral.Your body smelts,socks,tooths etc...Torlak.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 11:31
Originally posted by medenaywe

It is pejorative here.Even if Tor/Thor means corral:
http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=tor+za+stoku
  Torlak here describes smelt of corral.Your body smelts,socks,tooths etc...Torlak.

Of course it is not pejorative, nothing strange that cattle-breeder smells on cattle, pejorative meaning (if there is any) is probably more recent.

Out of topic, I have read your thread about origin of words, must admit hardly understandable, is it something like "xur-bel-gon theory"?
My objection is that you often gave modern meaning of Slavic words and never tried to find which words are authentic PS, OCS, and which are loans from other languages or only cognates.
There is serious science called PIE linguistic, practiced on many world famous universities, is there any need for introducing anagrams instead of reconstructed roots, dependent on several linguistic laws etc?



 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 12:08
"Slavic" words i use are not modified,they preserved original sounds in them.Sounds were first.Anagrams
are made by sounds therefore "other" languages have used different signs=letters and distort original sounds:to hide the truth!By the way,Inclined letters when you read it make sound construction that preserve even the meaning of former syllabic formation.Rule number 1:You can not avoid&run away from your roots."Slavic" languages  convert consonant syllable group  in article. Ex.Serbian&Croatian, VraTa=Door;VraTu;VraTe;VraTi;VraTo
"I" form is mostly out of usage in "Latin" languages."Slavic" also preserves it."OO"&"EE" forms are rare.
I listen voices only and put them inside the formula.First linguists were logicians.Why?Cause the language was the same/similar???.That did not mean perfect of course.SmileLogic will be second after i finish basic 390 syllables&more(there are consonant syllables that are out of regular rule:ex.VN&LN&ShT we still have in Macedonian language.)
KoShTa=Circular stone beauties,it is coin.Words were reappointed and real meaning lost.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 16:03
Just to update previous post, pre- thirteen century dictionary of Turkic languages:




Edited by Vdkn67 - 20-Dec-2012 at 16:05
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 16:33
Originally posted by medenaywe

"Slavic" words i use are not modified,....

KoShTa=Circular stone beauties,it is coin.Words were reappointed and real meaning lost.

Hm, contradiction: this unknown word KoShTa which means nothing in any language known to me,
in Slavic and Germanic would definitely be under RUKI law. So it would sound KOŠTA.
So original would be something like *KoS(K?)*
Before that, there was Grimm`s law which shifted
gkx
so Slavic word for "circular stone beauty" would be something like *HOŠ**, or even palatalized ŠOŠ**
I am sure there is no any Slavic word for coin ever sounded this way.

So this example gave you two important linguistic laws which modified words you used.
Now it is also questionable why should any language at its start introduce word for "circular stone beauties". Sounds almost like high-school joke when student asked "what is Latin word for aeroplane"
For better understanding take a look at this etymology of word coin from New Latin:
http://www.myetymology.com/latin/cuneus.html




Edited by Vdkn67 - 20-Dec-2012 at 16:44
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