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Will space travel eventually bring on new emperors

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  Quote Guess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Will space travel eventually bring on new emperors
    Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 21:16
I think that some of the reasons why there are less wars for conquest these days are the following:

1. There is no open territory. Virtually every part of the earth is controlled by a recognized state
2. wars are more damaging
3. you can make more money and prosperity through trade
4. The US hegemony won't allow it
5. Television and Radio will broadcast what you have done to the whole world.

Flash forward a few hundred years when the space age is really going strong. Humans live on other planets and the distances are enormous. So in a sense we are back to the way things were in the ancient period where communications across vast distances was difficult and there were many new areas to explore.

Curious whether there is room to debate on this issue. Whether people think conquest will come back in the future?
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  Quote nikodemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 22:02
Originally posted by Guess


1. There is no open territory. Virtually every part of the earth is controlled by a recognized state


Except Antarctica which is the fifth largest continent.

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  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 23:09
Well most sci-fi authors tend to believe so.

There are too many variants. How fast will time-travel be? Is there going to be any means of direct telecommunication? Will space be free for all, or giant corporations will control everything?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 00:17

It is hard to believe space emperators would come soon. The fact is physics forbides travels faster than light. Therefore, at least there is a major switch of paradigms, Galactic Empires will never be possible.

Now, for the next thousand of years at least, people hardly will move beyond the solar system.
 
Yes, it is possible to put thousand of colonies in Mars and in orbit around the other planets, particularly in the asteroid belt. There is possible to create large scale societies. But those societies won't be isolated from Earth affrairs. They would be so close to Earth to really become independent nations with theirs own emperators.
 
The situation will change when men has the power to send settlers to the near stars. In there is possible to develop societies really independent from Earth, separates by decades of space travel. That will be possible perhaps in a thousand years more.
 
Now, considering that man reached the moon 40 years ago and never come back, perhaps we will have to wait more than a thousand years for that possibily to have a chance to materialize.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 00:35
Thats even if you believe we  really landed on the moon to begin with.
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 09:38
Presume that was only a jokey comment ?
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 10:17
I doubt humanity will ever make it into space. It takes serious wealth and no country on earth has had the money even to go to the moon in the last forty years, let alone a prolonged campaign further out. It also takes a large amount of resources and the earth barely has enough for it's own needs.
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 13:23
There already is one; Lord Xenu.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 16:59
Originally posted by Paul

I doubt humanity will ever make it into space. It takes serious wealth and no country on earth has had the money even to go to the moon in the last forty years, let alone a prolonged campaign further out. It also takes a large amount of resources and the earth barely has enough for it's own needs.
 
Well, in my case I am a little bit more optimistic. Still, I believe it will take quite a long time, measured in thousand of years rather than in decades.
 
The Solar System certainly has to be conquered because two resources are calling us up there: solar energy and minerals. The solar power captured in space and sent down to earth by microwaves could absolutely transform life on earth, making the "oil age" look as primitive as the "stone age". Besides, the asteroid belt is rich in minerals beyond what we can imagine. Those, I am sure, will drive people to colonize the solar system little by little.
 
My guess is that this process will take a couple of thousand years at the very least. Only then, perhaps, someone will venture to the neighbour stars. Who knows?
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 17:45
Pinguin, I think you're assuming human-kind will last that long. We've only had the atomic bomb for 63 years, and it's a safe bet that we'll waste ourselves and the planet in the next few hundred...
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 18:35
Originally posted by nikodemos

Originally posted by Guess


1. There is no open territory. Virtually every part of the earth is controlled by a recognized state


Except Antarctica which is the fifth largest continent.

 
...and the emperor penguins shall rule Antarctia!
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 18:37
It also takes a large amount of resources and the earth barely has enough for it's own needs.


Aha, but if it becomes profitable for companies to go into space for natural resources. He-3 for theoretical "fusion reactors", Natural Gas stored in asteroids, Gold (for electronics applications) and a plethora of other rare metals. I mean even if it costs 20 billion dollars to build and service a space mine but it'll bring back 21 billion dollars it's worth the venture to do so right?

Also the construction of a space elevator could eliminate 90 % of the costs of launching a rocket, and the technology to create such a structure is getting off the ground.

We've only had the atomic bomb for 63 years, and it's a safe bet that we'll waste ourselves and the planet in the next few hundred...


Your forgetting the fact that since we dropped the bomb on Japan no one has used an atomic bomb in aggression. Also the atomic bomb has been championing peace for it's entire existence. For instance look at the death toll from atomic bombs compared to say...the machine gun? dynamite? sharpened pointy sticks?.... I seriously doubt that someone comes out and ruins that, I mean not even Kim Jong Il is idiotic enough to use his nukes contrary to popular opinion and if someone that crazy isn't using them who else would?

Even then a few detonations would not destroy mankind, MAD is just not feasible now or within the next hundred years I think.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 23:30
Originally posted by JanusRook

...
Aha, but if it becomes profitable for companies to go into space for natural resources. He-3 for theoretical "fusion reactors", Natural Gas stored in asteroids, Gold (for electronics applications) and a plethora of other rare metals. I mean even if it costs 20 billion dollars to build and service a space mine but it'll bring back 21 billion dollars it's worth the venture to do so right?

Also the construction of a space elevator could eliminate 90 % of the costs of launching a rocket, and the technology to create such a structure is getting off the ground.
...
 
Absolutely. The future is plenty of promises in space. However, I won't beat on the space elevator at all. The project depends in something weird: the resistence of cables beyond what nature provides. I don't put my confidence on those mamut mega-projects because are very unlikely they will ever be build. They would be too much hard, too much risky (imagine the cable to break down!), too much costly to be ever practical.
 
I bet in other technologies. The first are the hypersonic reactors that may lift from the ground in the following decades, but my favorite is laser propulsion.
 
In laser propulsion "all you need" is a solar power satelite that beam high energy down to a pasive "flying saucer".  The external energy is used to heat a propelent at high speed. With that way you could ship heavy loads continuosly to space with easy, without the need to build the space elevator. That would make large scale space colonization possible.
 
How far in the future? Perhaps 100 years, I bet.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 23:31
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Pinguin, I think you're assuming human-kind will last that long. We've only had the atomic bomb for 63 years, and it's a safe bet that we'll waste ourselves and the planet in the next few hundred...
 
I am assuming human kind and life on earth will survive, yes. For me is impossible to foresee anything else.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 05:53
They would be too much hard, too much risky (imagine the cable to break down!), too much costly to be ever practical.


Actually scientists say that due to the relatively small mass per area of the cable it would float slowly to the ground (the parts that didn't burn up) like a feather and gently land like a spider string caught in a breeze.

However, I'm really liking this Launch Loop idea, it seems that it could get payloads as cheap as $3/kg which is AMAZING to say the least. Considering the best we have is a couple of thousand of dollars for a kilogram currently.

 
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 07:30
I agree with Paul on this one that humanity will not make it to space but then again it could be a possibility depending on how our social conditioning evolves in the next century here on earth. Basically what drove the US to the moon was competition with the Soviet Union but today Nation competition is not so black an white as before. The world is even smaller and nations don't have the ideological convictions they used to have in order to at least justify why they were competing with each other.

I think something extraordinary would have to occur to send us full speed for the stars and forget our problems here. Say the Sun would abnormally start to expand threatening our survival here giving us some time but not too much to build rockets, plan which planet to colonize etc. Finally half the people on earth would believe it impossible and commit suicide, some others being religious would say "Its Gods will" and would stay, while the other half with the stronger will to survive would come up with the technology to make it out.
Of course then the question arises whether there would be enough rockets to accommodate everyone which i doubt. Who would decide who stays and who goes? Would the believers condemn the ones leaving as blasphemers and start attacking them? Details ... details....Confused
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 11:01
1) Wars of conquest haven't ended. There are uncountable ones raging right now. Even Iraq is just a war to install a puppet "governor" (aka democracy)

2) A space elevator is crazy idea. Imagine the aerodynamics!

3) Converting high frequency RF (light) into low frequency RF (microwaves) and sending it back to earth is a total waste of energy. Convert the light on earth and save a highly costly energy conversion. You can't even send that much energy in microwaves, why do you think Britain's death ray project ended up producing nothing but radar? (which then won them the war )

4) Ion drives are probably the best potential for next generation propulsion systems.

I think something extraordinary would have to occur to send us full speed for the stars and forget our problems here. Say the Sun would abnormally start to expand threatening our survival here giving us some time but not too much to build rockets, plan which planet to colonize etc. Finally half the people on earth would believe it impossible and commit suicide, some others being religious would say "Its Gods will" and would stay, while the other half with the stronger will to survive would come up with the technology to make it out.
Of course then the question arises whether there would be enough rockets to accommodate everyone which i doubt. Who would decide who stays and who goes? Would the believers condemn the ones leaving as blasphemers and start attacking them? Details ... details....

I have heard of this. They place these people on the B ship, and they leave first. The A, and C ships never leave, and get rid of all the undesirable elements until they are overcome by a disease spread by dirty telephones (the telephone sanitizers were on the B ship)


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 05-Feb-2008 at 11:03
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 12:30
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

...
2) A space elevator is crazy idea. Imagine the aerodynamics!
 
Agreed
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

...
3) Converting high frequency RF (light) into low frequency RF (microwaves) and sending it back to earth is a total waste of energy. Convert the light on earth and save a highly costly energy conversion. You can't even send that much energy in microwaves, why do you think Britain's death ray project ended up producing nothing but radar? (which then won them the war )
 
Absolutely wrong. Sun Power Satellites are absolutely workable, and beaming the energy to earth works. Calculations has been done since long ago, and NASA is working in some prototypes. The only problem that remain is how to ship and build such a huge structures in space. Laser propulsion has also been tested in small scale models. We just need 1.000 billion dollars to make them work out LOL
 
Solar satellites:
 
 
 
Laser propulsion:
 
 
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 16:38
The world is even smaller and nations don't have the ideological convictions they used to have in order to at least justify why they were competing with each other.


hmm.....China vs. the World perhaps......

(technological rivalry, not necessarily militaristic stalemate like USSR and USA)

Who would decide who stays and who goes?


Obviously the governments in power who controlled the technology, a global catastrophe on that scale is the only way that a "Space Empire" could be put into place since by it's very nature the planet evacuation program would be a totalitarian affair.
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 18:15

Sure space travel will happen. What will happen in 50-100 years when resources will become scarce (and hence expensive), technology will advance and will become much cheaper, and it will be economically viable to mine metals from other planets? Hopefully the upcoming environmental crisis will not be serious enough to completely destabilize all of civilization until then, though there is some cause to fear this.

We can debate all we want on which technology will actually make it happen, but who would have predicted in 1908 that in 2008 we would have already gone to the moon, that an ordinary person would be able to travel around the world in less than 24 hours (3 hour tour for some astronauts), or that we would have a gigantic globe-spanning network of thinking machines based on circuits whose smallest components are only a few atoms thick? Or that we are able to make copies of complex lifeforms, and create new species to suit our needs?

I think that the methods and reasons for space travel will be dependent upon economic and scientific paradigm shifts. The current paradigm is that space travel is expensive and based on cutting-edge technology, hence only rich and advanced nations attempt it, and it seldom yields economic benefits (aside from satellites). However, inventions could very well be made in the near future which change the paradigm, to one where space travel is relatively cheap, to the point where any resonably developed nation can build its own spaceships, in order to attain economic benefits.

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