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Indian Perceptions of Arabs

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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indian Perceptions of Arabs
    Posted: 12-Oct-2007 at 01:05
Hello to you all my fellow Indians and Happy Eid.
 
I do not if this subject has been risen before but what was the Indian preception of the Arab conquests of Muhammas ibn Al-Qasim who led a combined land-naval campaign because the were the first wave of the Islamic conquests that would eventually lead to muslims ruling all India.
 
Islamic conquests had a lasting effect on India and the conquests of this brilliant teenager were the first successful conquest of Indian territory and yet Indians are more interested in Alexander's attacks than Al-Qasims lasting legacy. Please do forward your thought especially our hindu friends.
 
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  Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2007 at 10:56
        I think that it must be said that the India was conquered not for Islam but rather for personal glory. The true Islamization of India happened not under the Arabs but under the Afghans and Mughals. Afghans were more attracted by the riches of India rather than any missionary zeal. Mughals who were just Persianized Mongols ruled India just to have a kingdom to rule. Muhammad bin Qasim's invasions into India happened due to a political incident rather than any direct intention to spread the word of Islam. Islam was spread mainly by the muslim missionaries especially in north west india  just like in Indonesia and Malaysia.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 06:41
It really depends on who you ask as to what they think on Muhammed bin Qasims invasions. Muslims typically think positively about the Arab invasion, and think highly of bin Qasim. At the time, the Buddhist population also welcomed bin Qasim against the rulers of Sindh, who were Hindu.
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 15:52
Well, Muslims were never really integrated into Indian culture. Through their history India have accepted foregin invader such as Aryans, Greeks, and pre-Islamic Mongols and integrated it into their society especially in the north where it was a constant battling ground between different princes and states. However Muslims never were really integrated into Indian culture because their difference were so vast. Muslims believed in one God, Hindus believed in multiple gods. Muslims believed that cattle was a source of food while Hindus believed cattle was sacred. Muslims believed that other religions shouldn't be accepted and Hindus believed any religion is acceptable.
 
The Muslims saw these worshiping of multiple gods was unacceptable. As a result Muslims smashed Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines. They are still divided to this day.
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  Quote SpartaN117 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 19:31
Originally posted by andrew

Muslims believed that other religions shouldn't be accepted and Hindus believed any religion is acceptable.
 
The Muslims saw these worshiping of multiple gods was unacceptable. As a result Muslims smashed Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines. They are still divided to this day.


Seriously, you believe that?

Muslims ruled all of South Asia for a very long time. If they wanted Hindu temples destroyed, there wouldnt be any standing right now, so please.

And Bin Quasim invaded Sindh first, i.e modern Pakistan. India was unaffected for a little while, unless you were referring to Islams spread in South Asia.

Its rather confusing when states which were separate at that time, are combined and referred to as India, not to mention that the state in question is not even in modern India either.

People here have a mental picture of British Raj, which existed in 19 and 20th century, and they use that map to refer to "India" for any given time period. What is up with that???

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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 21:00
Originally posted by SpartaN117

Originally posted by andrew

Muslims believed that other religions shouldn't be accepted and Hindus believed any religion is acceptable.
 
The Muslims saw these worshiping of multiple gods was unacceptable. As a result Muslims smashed Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines. They are still divided to this day.


Seriously, you believe that?

Muslims ruled all of South Asia for a very long time. If they wanted Hindu temples destroyed, there wouldnt be any standing right now, so please.

And Bin Quasim invaded Sindh first, i.e modern Pakistan. India was unaffected for a little while, unless you were referring to Islams spread in South Asia.

Its rather confusing when states which were separate at that time, are combined and referred to as India, not to mention that the state in question is not even in modern India either.

People here have a mental picture of British Raj, which existed in 19 and 20th century, and they use that map to refer to "India" for any given time period. What is up with that???
 
Just because you are not a Hindu Indian and are a Pakistani Muslim doesen't mean this does apply to you. As the person who commented above me said, depends on who you ask and where you ask. I don't think many Sikhs and Hindus in Northern India are exactly fond of Muslims. With the exception of Akbar the Great, the Hindus have been discrimnated again in India from the Delhi Sultanate all the way to the Mughal Empires.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 10:40
Originally posted by andrew

Through their history India have accepted foregin invader such as Aryans, Greeks, and pre-Islamic Mongols and integrated it into their society especially in the north where it was a constant battling ground between different princes and states. However Muslims never were really integrated into Indian culture because their difference were so vast.

I'm going to disagree with you on that point though. The muslim population pretty well replaced the buddhist population, mainly because the buddhist population of the subcontinent became the muslim population of the subcontinent.
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  Quote HaloChanter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 11:36

Hmm, I canont believe the theory that the Muslim conquests shunned native religion. Yes, there has been many problems in modern times, but that is really a modern problem. In history, there has been a far more peaceful existence of religion in India.

Hyderabad is a great example. This kingdom, in the Eighteenth century, was a Muslim one - but the population was predominantly Hindu. Persian immigrants from Delhi had created a highly islamicised elite culture, but there was a thick blend of Hindu tradition amalgamated in to ceremonies, rituals, festivals and even worship itself.
 
This was best seen in the symbolism of ritual, when the Nizam's would include certain Hindu gods in Muslim processions, though with Persian names and worshipped in an Islamicised manner. Temples of both religions flourished, to which the Nizam paid respect in all. In turn, Hindu's flocked to the Muslim ceremonies (a popular one was the ten day festivial of "Lord Mohammed" on a hill over the City where Muslims and Hindu's alike celebrated the old sighting in a dream of Allah's prophet by a sacred rock).
 
Indeed, the period was one in which Moslems took part in government and festivals of Hindu dynasties and Hindu's did such in Muslim states. With the entry of the English East India Company, this situation was even more evident, patronage and offices (such as Vakil or Munshi - diplomatic representative to/from the Durbar and Head Assistant respectively) were open equally to Moslems and Hindu's.
 
India has always been one of those unique blendings of religion that found its unique expression in the independent Mughal kingdoms of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
Kind regards,

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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by andrew

Well, Muslims were never really integrated into Indian culture...
 
Well I too would like to agree with HaloChanter that India is one of the countries in the world with a large population and yet of different religions. If your words were correct then today there should have been a single dominant religion in India along with the other religions crushed and attacked.
 
As said before what you see now adays in India is not the true representer of Indian Religious History.
 
Since long time the large Hindu and Muslim populations along with other minorities have lived in peace and brotherly.
The current conditions starting point was the idea of partition, where Hindus didn't want their country divided and Muslims (for many political and social reasons) wanted a seperate country, that was the turning point of the relations between the two religions.
 
I don't say that in past their was no such agressions but those were only fought for power and never were considered as a religious afair, were now the situations is vice versa, the politicians make a scenario for their political profits and present it to the poor people as a religuious afair.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 14:01
Ghranai, the communties especailly in rural areas were seperate. Always.
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  Quote Azat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 17:04
Originally posted by Sparten

Ghranai, the communties especailly in rural areas were seperate. Always.
 
Can you elobrate this.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 18:58
You had muslim villages, Sikh villages, Hindu villages. Inter-Marriage was not common at all. In the army you had segregated units. Also you had muslim areas and Hindu areas.
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 22:07
It's not that India did now welcome Islam, Islam did not welcome India. And as Sparten said they were seperated in rural areas and there was discrimination. In the Delhi Sultanate, Muslims would hold the government and give more rights to Muslims then Hindus. At times they came under a good natured ruler, Akbar, who was a liberal Muslim and was many times was threatened to no longer be king especially after he tried to combine Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity in one religion.
 
 
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  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 08:11
Islam didnt wlecome India because it couldnt. Islam was the invader, India the host. Its the hosts job to welcome, not the invaders.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 10:35
Dear Andrew, even the most "fanatic" muslim ruler of India, Aurengzeb, had the majority of his army and civil service from Hindu rajputs. It was hindus under muslim command fighting hindus under hindu command.
 
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  Quote Azat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2007 at 15:46
Originally posted by Sparten

You had muslim villages, Sikh villages, Hindu villages. Inter-Marriage was not common at all. In the army you had segregated units. Also you had muslim areas and Hindu areas.
 
Not exactly Sparten.
 
Contrary to your perception it was only the urban population of both countries and urban leaders who wanted partition for their own power interests.
 
Both Nehru and Jinnah wanted partition so that they can get power.
 
But the real people of those regions who were to be partitioned never supported them.
 
Like Punjab was completely ruled by Unionist party a political outfit of Jat Zamindars   belonging to three religions Muslim Sikh and Hindu from two countries who bitterly opposed partition . Both Congress and Muslim League was decimated there.NWFP also opposed it.
 
As far as rural people are considered there was no segregation as most of Muslim converts were native people who till few generation back were from same background and maintained there relation with their brothers san marriages ,from the other faith  ,separate villages were because of the fact as most villages have only one major group whether this or that . 
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  Quote Deano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2007 at 16:51
The battle of delphi and stuff with ALexander is far more intresting (to me) then the Arabian empires conquest.I mean Alexander fought hundreds of men on elephants with only around 15,000 foot soliders while Arabia had a bu nnch of ''holy''battles with India and where realetivley small.Now dont get me wrong the Arabian empire is fasinating to study but I like the boy king more.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2007 at 18:50
Originally posted by Azat

Originally posted by Sparten

You had muslim villages, Sikh villages, Hindu villages. Inter-Marriage was not common at all. In the army you had segregated units. Also you had muslim areas and Hindu areas.
 
Not exactly Sparten.
 
Contrary to your perception it was only the urban population of both countries and urban leaders who wanted partition for their own power interests.
 
Both Nehru and Jinnah wanted partition so that they can get power.
 
But the real people of those regions who were to be partitioned never supported them.
 
Like Punjab was completely ruled by Unionist party a political outfit of Jat Zamindars   belonging to three religions Muslim Sikh and Hindu from two countries who bitterly opposed partition . Both Congress and Muslim League was decimated there.NWFP also opposed it.
 
As far as rural people are considered there was no segregation as most of Muslim converts were native people who till few generation back were from same background and maintained there relation with their brothers san marriages ,from the other faith  ,separate villages were because of the fact as most villages have only one major group whether this or that . 
NWFP against partition? Please, the whole idea of Pakistan came from the Khybar Union, they were busy supporting the concept well before Jinnah and the rest came around to it (and Jinnah not till 46). Partition was always considered an option, admittedly an extreme one until '46, but an option nonetheless. And while I can't speak for Sikhs and Hindus, the muslims certainly wanted it.
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  Quote Azat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2007 at 04:57

To my info NWFP was controlled by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan party who opposed union with pakistan.And idea of Pakistan was adovacted by Nawab of Dhaka in the beginning.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2007 at 06:11
No, Ghaffar Khan was part of congress. He was one of the factions, others were the Muslim League, led by Quyum Khan, and the Ulema-e-Islam both of whom were pro-Pakistan.
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