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Japan to remilitarize itself?

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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Japan to remilitarize itself?
    Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 03:03
Originally posted by Elanjie


    Styrbiorn, are there any water in your brain .


    I 've said clear enough, that China had never received a War compensation after WWII from Japan.The aid and loan are merely seen as another form of compensation which is still can't match the great suffering in WWII of China.


China has received trillions of yen. I've shown you international, neutral sources.


    You just buy their paraganda and thoughts, most chinese people know about such kind of aid, no one would take it seriously.


And how do they "know" this? Through the Fair and Balanced Chinese government?

    Japanese is always good at distorting the true and history. It is you should be cautions of that.



I only use neutral and unbiased sources. Ie non-Japanese and non-Chinese.

Originally posted by Elanjie


Whatever their point of view is, it is not important. They have done something terrible and extremely wrong in WWII, any time ,any situation they shan't deny.


] Being a major country in the world, japanese should obey the common criterion , that is simple, don't do something directly against justice. Only after they canachieve this, they are qualified to be a "normal" country but not by modify constitution or remilitarize itself and always being aservant of U.S.


So only the Chinese views matter, eh?

The now living Japanese haven't done a sh*t. Beside or alongside South Korea, they live in the by far most free democracy in the region and are a pacifict and non-jingoisic country. You seriously need to get over the past. The history-book thing - created by a fringe group! - wasn't a good move, but Chinese media is blowing up the animosity, and that's your big criminal in the Sino-Japanese relations nowadays. Have you spoken with a Japanese about their take on the situation? I suggest you do.

Originally posted by Suh Jangoon

Japan might take its military the wrong way, they never apologized for their past bloodshed...

They have apologized. Numerous times.

Edited by Styrbiorn
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Elanjie View Drop Down
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  Quote Elanjie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 06:33


The now living Japanese haven't done a sh*t. Beside or alongside South Korea, they live in the by far most free democracy in the region and are a pacifict and non-jingoisic country. You seriously need to get over the past. The history-book thing - created by a fringe group! - wasn't a good move, but Chinese media is blowing up the animosity, and that's your big criminal in the Sino-Japanese relations nowadays. Have you spoken with a Japanese about their take on the situation? I suggest you do.


As an asian, and being a chinese, we share the similar culture with japanese,  and also I've got many japanese friends.

I know japanese more than you do except that you are japanese yourself.

There is no neutral and internal resources, man .

    What is your opionion and comprehension of apology?
eg.   Let me slash your face, then I apologize. 
        I slash twice, then I apologize twice, ....
       Their priminster once send a "apology", and then go to the shrine, so ,numerous "apologies" are always being companion with numerous insults.
       Apologize means nothing for japanese, they bow to each other as manna, it is not difficult to be just saying a word.


      

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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 07:28
Originally posted by Elanjie


As an asian, and being a chinese, we share the similar culture with japanese, and also I've got many japanese friends.

I know japanese more than you do except that you are japanese yourself.

There is no neutral and internal resources, man .

    What is your opionion and comprehension of apology?
eg. Let me slash your face, then I apologize.
        I slash twice, then I apologize twice, ....
Their priminster once send a "apology", and
then go to the shrine, so ,numerous "apologies" are always being
companion with numerous insults.
       Apologize means nothing for
japanese, they bow to each other as manna, it is not difficult to be
just saying a word.

I'm not Japanese.
There are sources that can be considered neutral, at least in the Japan-China issue.


I see the problem here though. You seem to consider a visit to Yasukuni as a crime against China. The Japanese don't. The shrine has *every* soldier who died for Japan since it was built in the early Meiji era to honour those who lost their lives working to build up a new Japan, a peaceful country(that's what Yasukuni literally means). Contradictive, yes indeed, but after the militaristic era that ended with the US victory, that's now again how the shrine is looked upon in the new largely pacifist Japan. The crime here though is what the Japanese did 60-70 years ago, and for that they have apologized, even though they certainly could make more, especially in the education field. They are way behind the Germans in that regard.
Back to the shrine, you'll never get an apology for paying respect to their dead, and you'll have to realize visiting that shrine is not saying that it was ok to rape Nanking or any such like. On the other hand, the Japanese should realize what the visits mean to the Chinese and try to respect that. Official visits by Koizumi is, IMHO, stupid. As usual both sides are to blame..



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  Quote Elanjie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 10:36

After all, the problem of Koizumi's visting to shrine lies before all the political obstacles that is to be solved, it is rather a symbol of whether the japanese government has some sincerity to amend.

It is totally political.

 

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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 13:13

Styrborin,

Japan apologizing goes a long way to solving the problem, but the constant visit to the shrine just makes the situation worse.  Like I said, it is just like Schroder honoring all the German war dead.  Those visits just undo the apologies.

When there is a war, mindless murder occurs all the time, but a systematic pattern of murder (Jewish Genocide, Nanking, Korean Confort Women, & the current genocide in Africa) is where I draw the line.  That is where the difference is, a corrdinated pattern of killing innocent civilians. 

Yes, they apologized numerious times, but if Kozumi did not visit the shirine, I feel that the problem is solved.  Whether they are sincere or not, nobody really knows except Kozumi, but the apology looses a lot of weight when he revisits that Shrine. 

I read in the BBC that a poll done in Japan shows about 50% disapproves of Kozumi visit, about 40% approves, and about 10% have no opinion.  I invite everyone who is interest to visit BBC.

Kozumi recent apologies, I feel stemmed from the fact that the Japanese companies was fearing that Chinese customers will not buy Japanese goods.  Japan's biggest exporter is China, so a downturn in sales will be bad for the fragile Japanese economy.

As much as the Chinese Media blows things out of portion & they really do sometimes, the same call also be said about the Japanese, & Americans & basically everybody.  I never watch or read the news and take anything at face value.

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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 14:47

TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- Nearly 50 percent of Japanese oppose Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's visits to a Tokyo war shrine criticized by China, a newspaper poll shows.

The Asahi newspaper survey on Tuesday showed 49 percent of 1,876 respondents questioned thought the visits to Yasukuni should stop, while 39 percent thought they should continue.

The poll said 12 percent of respondents questioned on Saturday and Sunday were undecided or didn't know.

Yasukuni honors Japan's war dead, including executed World War II criminals, and China and other countries say the visits glorify Japan's militarist past.

The shrine was one of several issues -- including territorial disputes and a Japanese nationalist history textbook -- that boiled over in violent anti-Japan protests in China in April.

Asahi also said that only 35 percent respondents approved of Koizumi's policy toward China, while 48 percent disapproved of it. The remaining 17 percent had no opinion.

The poll showed that 51 percent of respondents could not understand China's vehement opposition to the Yasukuni visits, while 37 percent did.

Koizumi has refused to rule out a visit to Yasukuni this year. He has gone to the shrine four times since taking office in 2001, the last time in January 2003.

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  Quote mark1100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 11:08
if the german chencellor would honour the remember of adolf hitler he would be f**ked out of his job
seems like japan doesnt learn anything in ww2
they even could keep their kaiser
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 17:27

I really don't see the problem of visiting the war shrine.

He is honoring the sacrafice japanese soldiers made. Whether or not their cause was jsut, they were still soldiers doing what their country asked of them. i see it more as him honoring their patriotism as him honoring the actions of the Japanese military in WW2

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  Quote mark1100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2005 at 08:40
that shrine is a glorification and not to remember
there is nothing about the japanese warcrimes
its just a cloryfication of their soldiers ,what a great work they have done and that they made a great job for japan

the hell would break out if the german chancellor would hounour a ss-unit wich killed civilians



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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2005 at 22:06

the shrine also has Koreans forcibly conscripted, along with 'every soldier' that died for the glory of Japanese empire and the emperor

it used to be called Shokonsha at the time it was built, and with Japan's conquest wars, took on a militaristic character

whenever there was war, Yasukuni became the center of loyalty to the emperor and militarism of Japan, where war-dead could become gods.

unjust aggressions by Japan was justified by this religious base, and could drive Japan to militarism as the young would go to war so they can go to yasukuni and become gods, 'bringing comfort to Japan' in the process (Yasukuni literally means bring comfort to country)

one source says:

the 14 A-class war criminals didn't come to Yasukuni until 1978
'the war criminals were labled one-sidedly by the allied forces, and they are not criminals according to Japanese law'

first official visit by a primere was in 1985

another says:

it was discovered that 14 A-class war criminals were in Yasukuni in 1978, drawing international attention, and visits by premeres and emperors stopped for the most part afterwards

on the outside, they have many white doves, on the inside, they have statues of Omura Ekizi, 'the father of Japanese army', Kamikaze pilots, and many war criminals, and also carries many weapons including Zero fighters, large guns off battleships, ammunition for Yamato, etc. and there is also a stone monument listing qualities an Emperor's soldier of the empire should have

Yasukuni is a symbol of imperialism, militarism, expansionism, and McArthur saw the danger of it and cut its link from the state, giving a choice to make it a purely religious shrine, or a pure memorial grounds for war-dead. Japan chose religious shrine then, and slowly grew back the link to the state

official visit by government official itself is unlawful as the state cannot perform religious activities according to the constitution, many Japanese understand why other countries see the visits as so terrible, and even more Japanese think the visits should stop. the government is also thinking of removing the A-class warcriminals, but are stopped by right-wing disapprovals

and just to note, if they purely want to honor the dead, there is the Chidorigahuchi wardead graveyard just below Yasukuni.



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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2005 at 10:28

Honoring your fallen heros for any country is justified. 

Honoring the individuals who actively participated in war crimes or crimes against humanity is unjustified.  I have no problem with the shrine as long as the war criminals are removed from the shrine.

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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 02:53
apparently a Japanese person has wrote a book criticizing Japan, and part of the criticizm is directed at insincere apologies which are directed only at a seat in the security council, and Japan that can not deal with the past and yet hopes to deal with the world's future..
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