Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Child Brides Sold for 3,000 Euros in Greece

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
morticia View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Editor

Joined: 09-Aug-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2077
  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Child Brides Sold for 3,000 Euros in Greece
    Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 13:50
OMG, I could not believe this article when I first read it. Thirteen and fourteen year old girls are being sold for 3,000 euros within the Greek Muslim community living under Sharia Law. Even though the Greek constitution grants specific guarantees of civil liberties to its citizens, according to this article, the Greek government is allowing this practice basing its decision on cultural sensitivity. Why are the Greeks permitting this?

Source: http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_22490.shtml
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
Back to Top
Athanasios View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 14:15
A Greek Muslim + Roma = Greek "alien" unfortunately. These people had chosen this fundamental way of life and they happily follow it. Greek government is indeed very sensitive about these cultural particularities of the Muslims.

Why are the Greeks permitting this?

If you see a map of Greece, i'm sure you'll get the answer you wantWink

I'm sure that 99% of the Greeks have ignorance of whats happening up there. If it was in my hand, i wouldn't let this happen at least if the girls were not adult, following the Greek law about marriage's  age. As i'm in position to know, the relations btw Greek orthodox and Greek muslim citizens are perfect and that's mainly because of the equal confrontation that Greek states provides to both groups of people.
I don't think that insulting directly the Sharia is a wise decision. Changes in the way of living for some parts of Greek Muslim minority, will come with time.


Back to Top
morticia View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Editor

Joined: 09-Aug-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2077
  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 15:18
Thanks, Athanasios! There are some things that I will never understand - this is one of them!!!!!
"Morty

Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 15:20
Originally posted by morticia

OMG, I could not believe this article when I first read it. Thirteen and fourteen year old girls are being sold for 3,000 euros within the Greek Muslim community living under Sharia Law. Even though the Greek constitution grants specific guarantees of civil liberties to its citizens, according to this article, the Greek government is allowing this practice basing its decision on cultural sensitivity. Why are the Greeks permitting this?

Source: http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_22490.shtml
And who told you that in Greece permiitted the child-bargain ?
 
If there is something illegal there are the Greek authorities (Justice and Police) that will handle this case (and any similar) according the Greek and European Laws.
 
And since when Iran-news is now accurate source for the US citizens like you ? 


Edited by akritas - 21-Sep-2007 at 15:21
Back to Top
Athanasios View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 15:35
Sorry, did i tell you that selling a bride(child in this occasion) is something acceptable in a European country like GreeceLOL?

Akritas, in some of these areas mufti's decisions maybe are above the law, but i doubt if this action was acceptable by the community  (if had ever happened...).

Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 15:54
Originally posted by Athanasios

Sorry, did i tell you that selling a bride(child in this occasion) is something acceptable in a European country like GreeceLOL?

Akritas, in some of these areas mufti's decisions maybe are above the law, but i doubt if this action was acceptable by the community  (if had ever happened...).
Thanasi the specific article is a provocative article and point out in the defamation of the Greek muslim community and Greece. If anyone has evidence that mufti  has involved the Greek justice is their and alive...but.....
 
We must not  forget that a 10% of the Muslims are followers of the Turkish ultra-natinonalist line ( with the support of  NGO ) and  insist to ignore the International laws and Treauties and following  theirs pseudo-mufti Sharia law(giaur case).Wink  


Edited by akritas - 21-Sep-2007 at 15:56
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 16:38
1-not a good source Morticia
2-that 3000 Euros isn't a price of the Bride ( if the case is money in marriage is a sum of money for her own expenses not for her parent or anybody else.
3- Gypsies in that part of the word ( Greece and its neighbors) who are Christians do have marriages between 12 years old, SO its a cultural thing and has nothing to do with Sharia Law or Islamic religion as that nationalistic site claim.
 
that site is one of those made by Iranians who live outside iran hoping that one day Iran will be back as it used to be in the Shah's era which is mainly European wanna be.
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Athanasios View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 16:54
Well, i have in mind a recent incident about a 11 year old muslim girl who was rapped by an adult and she was forced-by her family and local community- to marry him . Meanwhile, the victim's family took a compensation (money amount i guess) . The mufti had just  "ratified" the decision  .That's because of the haram law i think. At least we don't have incidents of "honor" murders inside the families members, something which happens in hardcore(and not that hardcoreWink ) muslim countries.

Finally , i believe that European programs , such as INTEREG will finally homogenize the population of the european countries (in terms of wealth and living)and is a matter of time for this to happen in Thrace.

We must not  forget that a 10% of the Muslims are followers of the Turkish ultra-natinonalist line

I can imagine that their attempts are gathered , written in a textbook and  read as jokes by the K.Y.P. membersCool...

Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 17:05
Originally posted by Athanasios

Well, i have in mind a recent incident about a 11 year old Muslim girl who was rapped by an adult and she was forced-by her family and local community- to marry him . Meanwhile, the victim's family took a compensation (money amount i guess) . The mufti had just  "ratified" the decision  .That's because of the haram law i think. At least we don't have incidents of "honor" murders inside the families members, something which happens in hardcore(and not that hardcoreWink ) Muslim countries.
 
there is no such thing as Haram Law, and what are trying to argue about?
 
only Muslims has marriages with 11/12 years olds?
 
or Marriages in Islam are actually buy/sell business? LOL
 
one thing is clear is that you dont know what you are trying to argue about and this is not related to the topic, and nice try trying to bring honor killing in here. 
 
and about the Gypsies  it is a FACT.
 
now if you have anything to add to this topic feel free to add , if not then better not to write .
 
Back to Top
Athanasios View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 18:12
only Muslims has marriages with 11/12 years olds?
 
or Marriages in Islam are actually buy/sell business?

That's all you understood from everything above? I'll s-p-e-l-l them next time...

We have a "culture of shame" here because the "villain" that makes a member of family or community (the little girl in this caseDisapprove), falls collectively on the shoulders of family and community  , which owes to get rid of the shame, in order to recover the her losing honor = haram.

In a such "culture" the individuality is non-existent, same as each significance of individual right. The "culture of shame", however, i-s n-o-t i-d-e-n-t-i-f-i-e-d with the sovereign culture of Islam, as I have read, but it characterizes the way of a living version of Islam, that of arab-Veduins of 7th century.In order to turn in the haram (honor in this case) - she  should be placed , first of all, in the harem, in the space where  women living - that's why the women is the first and main victim when is placed the subject haram.



Oh, and in this case the girl was not gypsy ,as you wished to be, and honor killing is not a problem of mine's. I'd  like to send you the article, if i find it but i guess you can't read Greek.

Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
AE Immoderator

Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 18:20
Hmmm. The average adoption agency charges 10-20,000 for a child. A child bride costs 3,000. I can see a money making oppotunity here, and it's not even immoral..... Well not very.
Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 21:08
Originally posted by Athanasios

only Muslims has marriages with 11/12 years olds?
 
or Marriages in Islam are actually buy/sell business?

That's all you understood from everything above? I'll s-p-e-l-l them next time...

We have a "culture of shame" here because the "villain" that makes a member of family or community (the little girl in this caseDisapprove), falls collectively on the shoulders of family and community  , which owes to get rid of the shame, in order to recover the her losing honor = haram.

In a such "culture" the individuality is non-existent, same as each significance of individual right. The "culture of shame", however, i-s n-o-t i-d-e-n-t-i-f-i-e-d with the sovereign culture of Islam, as I have read, but it characterizes the way of a living version of Islam, that of arab-Veduins of 7th century.In order to turn in the haram (honor in this case) - she  should be placed , first of all, in the harem, in the space where  women living - that's why the women is the first and main victim when is placed the subject haram.

Oh, and in this case the girl was not gypsy ,as you wished to be, and honor killing is not a problem of mine's. I'd  like to send you the article, if i find it but i guess you can't read Greek.
 
keep your spelling for you , you are the one who don't get it obviously,
 
your whole point above is off topic  <<<<------ this is my point 
 
i will briefly explain your story above, even if you took it from article it doesn't mean it gave you all the facts.
 
you are arguing about Haram and clearly you dont know much about it.
 
 As Far As i Know in Sharia
 
when its a Rape case , its a crime and the rapist punished ( should be)
 
Rape is not treated as Adultery where both punished ( sometimes forced to marry each other if both are not married)
 
sometimes both are punished if it sounded like rape in western modern culture while its adultery in the another culture
 how?  when the women asks the man for it and changes her mind while they are on bed totally naked  and the man do have sex with her, is considered Rape by the some and considered Adultery by others that the girl has part to be blamed for it and she is  not 100% a victim.
 
in the case above an 11 year old is obviously the victim and should not be forced to marry her rapist, and the rapist should be punished.
 
again depending on the facts the judge has , assuming the article did gave all the facts then its not sharia law what took place, these people including her parents did something else (most likely a culture) and titled it as sharia law or there are parts of the story we dont know.
 
so the story before the rape taking place is important for the judgment. so this as far as i know about this.
 
again this is off topic , my replay is off topic too  so no more discussing about this rape, in this topic. 
 
there was a topic about honor killing here before in Women's History continue there if you wish to talk about your "culture of shame" or just open a new thread about rape so it will be clear and other members may be interested to discuss it too.
Back to Top
Seko View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Spammer

Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8595
  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 21:18
Whether this case is true or not I don't really know why it is one of the only kinds of crimes against underaged women being reported in this particular forum lately. I could tell you about the crimes being made against underaged women here in my good little home town in the big bad US of A that would make you shudder. Maybe it's only fair since we are being impartial with our articles.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 21:26
Originally posted by Athanasios

A Greek Muslim + Roma = Greek "alien" unfortunately. These people had chosen this fundamental way of life and they happily follow it. Greek government is indeed very sensitive about these cultural particularities of the Muslims.

Why are the Greeks permitting this?

If you see a map of Greece, i'm sure you'll get the answer you wantWink

...
 
What are governments for but to imposse the will of majorities onto society?
 
Beside, I really doubt that this practise is exclusive of Muslims or Gypsies at all. Even more, I could bet that a Muslim from Turkey and most Gypsies in Chile would find that practise very outdated.
 
In fact, buying and selling women, and marrying kids at early age was a common practise even in the West just a couple of centuries ago. It happened in the same time that children were castrated so they keep singing like angels in the churches, and when people was hung in the public square up to the time they become jerky... And at the same time most of the swers of Paris floated on surface channels.
 
I mean, that's a primitive practise that has to be stopped by governments. Ignorance shouldn't hide behind ethnicities and religions.
 
Otherwise, what is the sense of these centuries of fight against obcuranstism that Westerners have fought against witches, the religion and the ideologies?
 
It all of that going to be lost because of the cowardice of government that really get afraid of P.C.?
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 21:47
More blatant propaganda. Exchange on money from the husband to the wife is a dowry. Her god-given right.

Maybe we should consider any women could accepts a wedding ring to be soliciting?

Its ridiculous.
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2007 at 06:58
Dowry = Bride price. Interesting notion.
 
In sub-continental cultures, that transcend all religions, the  flow of dowry is in the opposite direction. Should it then be considered:
 
Dowry = Groom price.
 
The only difference is that in one case the groom side furnishes the bride with gifts and money, in the other it is the bride side that does so.
 
Unless there is a more authentic source that details the claim,there is very little other that one can go by to understand the true nature of the claim.


Edited by malizai_ - 22-Sep-2007 at 07:00
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2007 at 09:19

iranian.ws is not a source - it is the biggest stirrer of bullsh*t on the internet.  I notice that the article is nothing but a running narration. 

Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2007 at 07:17
Originally posted by Zagros

iranian.ws is not a source - it is the biggest stirrer of bullsh*t on the internet.  I notice that the article is nothing but a running narration. 

 
Not quite the way I would say it, but I agree.
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2007 at 05:47
Originally posted by pinguin

Beside, I really doubt that this practise is exclusive of Muslims or Gypsies at all.
 
Many such practices happen in a lot of societies no matter the religion, or ethnic make up.
 
 
 
Originally posted by pinguin

  Even more, I could bet that a Muslim from Turkey and most Gypsies in Chile would find that practise very outdated
 
 
 
Yes most would abhor that, and find it outdated.
 
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.092 seconds.