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PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation

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MarcoPolo View Drop Down
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  Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation
    Posted: 21-Jan-2009 at 22:08
Which south asian empire? most empires where foreign conquerors.  I dont think a south Asian empire is ever going to happen, especially considering that the movement for Pakistan and even Afghanistan refuted this concept and refused to relinquish their identity and recognized themselves both politically and historically as distinct and chose a path quite different from the South Asia.  Even attempts to form economic/ trade blocs(eg. SAARC) have for the most part been failures and non-functional and in many respects impracticle.  Even within india, many ethnic groups are resisting what they fear is the absorption of their distinct identity and culture.  In the case of Pakistan, there are many problems being faced by the ''Mohajir-urdu'' ethnic group which still face problems of integration and acceptance into the social dynamics of the various ethnic groups inhabiting Pakistan, a problem that for the most part, Afghan refugees have not had, many have intermarried or joined into parent tribes.  While newer refugees have been repatriated, the process has been difficult for the government which has opted to focus on those residing in refugee camps because those living outside are integrated for the most part and can be found in almost every corner of the country.
Furthermore, the relationship between the people from a historical point of view is different as well, as often Afghans and or Mughal empires, when it came to the region of South Asia, where areas conquered by invasion not under some common union.
As far as the Sikhs are concerned, they are relatively new entity from a historical point of view in that they are a reformist sect founded in the Panjab province after the 17th century and represent less than 3% of india's population and are also found in Pakistan, albeit in smaller numbers.  They can be seen as transitional.
Also, it should be pointed out, that there are no Pashtuns in india, while many claim to Pashtun ancestry, this has been disproven by genetic studies and even by phenotypic expression.  They neither look Pashtun, speak Pashto or have any cultural similarity to the Pashtuns and many where simply converts to Islam who opted to alter their surname to improve their social standing; perhaps as a result of the predominant caste based culture of india.  They are not accepted by any of the parent tribes in the traditional Pashtun regions of Pakistan or Afghanistan.  Also, many of the Mohajir-urdu people(s) of Pakistan who inhabit Karachi, a sizeable number also claim such lineages and despite living alongside an estimated 4 million Pashtuns are not considered Pashtun but urdu-speaking mohajirs even after 3 generations by all Pakistani's and Afghans alike. The majority still cant speak any of Pakistan's indigenous language(s). 
 
Going back to the point of the thread, the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan has been quite difficult and infact impracticle to delineate, this is due to Cultural, linguistic and tribal ties across it(Many tribes simply act as if it doesnt exist) and also do to the topographic geography of it which makes it next to imposible to seperate the two countries.  Even historically, many Afghans established reservoirs and colonies in the areas that now make up Pakistan, and Afghan families still inhabit areas of Karachi where they have lived for over a hundred years (eg. Logar colonies) and are distinct from the Afghan refugees who arrived post 1979.  As a kid, I remember playing in the village, and inadvertently ''walking'' over a unsuspecting hill and all of sudden being in Afghanistan, only to hear my mom call me back.  It was just as trivial then as it is now.
 
The government of both countries, need to realize this and work to facilatate trade and commerce which will prove beneficial to both impoverished countries and for the long term prospects of the region as a whole. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2009 at 20:37
There are political parties and landlords who are actually ruling the country Pakistan. These are the people who have known families and have been keen to their interests only. British have further made a great use of these people and they have deep rooted ties with neighbouring lands also. A common man in the country is never to appear before the nation to be its head and lead it to some destiny. These rich families have so much influence in politics that all the governing body has become a chess game for them. Nobody can ask of them for the most corruption they do. Western democratic system has further made these classes provided full opportunity to spend money and win seats. These people never let masses of even own country to come closer or to have some bond with each other. Then what happens is that every single faction starts defending its own rights just like gangs in no-rule area. The peacekeeping forces in the area seeing being done what not to do carry on for their own interests and thus common folk seldom report to police for most of the injustice made as police is just powerless to even ask a single question from a notable man. In these circumstances a man may rarely think wider than that of the thought of one's own belly or pocket and thus remains bound to the peace of own family. 
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PakistaniShield View Drop Down
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2010 at 16:47
Does a philosophical/political idea belong in a forum discussing history?  
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2011 at 23:14
This is a old thread, but i would support this idea, only if (punjabies) lose their power over pakistan they have.
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  Quote shikra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2011 at 05:32
May God Bless Both Afghanistan & Pakistan - I dont know how well a United Af-Pak would turn out to be, however, this is unlikely to happen as the powerfull in both the countries stand to loose their power (or atleast perceive to loose it) in case of a union.
Plus, I think even if somehow, this idea does flies off the drawing board, this unity would have to be implemented in stages, otherwise, it may result in a cultural shock for the people of both countries.
Just in case, they do run a referendum for this, it'll have my vote Smile
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2011 at 12:15
^ culture shock? i dont think so, they are already one country in many sense, for example so many afghans work in pakistanis cities like Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar and live in Kabul or Kandahar. There is no border between pakistan/afghanistan, anyone can cross anytime they want, Most afghans i know have already lived in pakistan for many years
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2011 at 14:06
I would like to summarize that no sane or patriotic Pakistani would welcome such a move.  What has Afghanistan to offer us? already we have had problems with Afghan immigrants. Crime and drug trade worsened. Many local Pakistanis lost their jobs to Afghans.

We would be seeking our own destruction by incorporating such a country into our own. Not to mention we suffer from overpopulation and would only worsen our conditions by adding fifty million more people to our population.

My answer is no. Afghans have their country we have ours. Afghans can't even seem to live in harmony and peace with one another yet want to live with us.


Edited by PakistaniShield - 18-Jun-2011 at 15:59
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2011 at 23:50
^ what about pashtuns though, they still have relations to other side in afghanistan
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2011 at 01:27
Originally posted by balochii

^ what about pashtuns though, they still have relations to other side in afghanistan


As do the Balochis with Iran? What next unite the two entire countries on one ethnic group? And why aren't the Afghans after Uzbekistan or the Central Asian countries on ethnic lines? I'll tell you why because Pakistan hold access to open sea and has relatively good facilities compared to Afghanistan.

The ethnic card won't last very long.
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