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PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation
    Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 17:05
Originally posted by Zagros

You said that Iran was occupying Azarbaijan - can you justify this statement? Because you just stated that the union is largely a result of the Azari Safavis and Qajars who then became Persianised.  To me that does not equate to an Iranian occupation.

In addition, you have us Kurds who constitute a tiny portion of the population in relation to Azaris, yet there have been at least three different militant Kurdish anti-IRI groups over the last 30 years whereas there have never been any armed anti-government ethnic Azari groups.

There are several major ethnic groups which can be deemed inseparable from Iran: Shia Kurds, Lors, Azaris and Persians (including Bakhtiari, Gilani and Mazandarani).

Out of all Iranian ethnic groups Azaris have it the best, even more than Persians. During the Shah's time it was exactly the same except the regime was secular.

Of course I don't condone anything this regime does unless it by chance pertains to rebuffing foreign attempts at exploitation but he Pjak off-shoot of the PKK sprouted in 2004 when Iraq was overrun by the neo-colonialists and it initiated hostilities.  I support the PDKI because I know they are not charlatans and are genuinely concerned for Iranian Kurds and Iranians in general unlike Pjak who are nothing more than the pawns of imperialists.  And I don;t know of any civilian casualties as a result of IRI bombardment.  They are not as foolish as the Turks to launch a full scale military incursion into mountains against a determined and capable enemy.  Their tactic is to wait and watch at the border.
 
 

i was about to ask if you are Kurd for you name Zargos indicate the Zagres mountains--- home of proud Kurdsbut then you spell you name a lil different in Dari we write it as  زاگرس with no ۆ .  

Anyways what I mean by Iran invasion of Azari people I mean the state Iranfor  Dari/Farsi speaking Azari rulers and elites are Azari by race only they have adopted Persian language. Indeed this is why I think they formally change Persia name to Iran in 1932 so their rule can be more acceptable.  

You need to realize that Pjak working with imperialists is only for Kurdish interestfor historically it was non-kurds that worked with imperialists and as a result the noble Kurds are the only indigenous people in area that don t have a state of their own. There is a saying in Afghanistan.. Gar zarorat bohad Rawa Bashaadif it is needed then its permissible.

 

Ps: I have heard that Rava Shah father was a Azarihe grand father name was QoliBeg khan..while his mother was persian or Mazandani.

 

 

 

 



Edited by True Afghan - 03-Apr-2008 at 17:06
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 18:11

Zaag-ross is how it is pronounced by all but Zaagrs is how it is spelled because some vowels do not have their own character in PA script, they are just accents on consenants which are often simply omitted through laziness in writing.

As for Reza Shah, his mother was Azari, his father was Gilani Persian and his wife was Azari making Mohammad Reza 3/4 Azari.  And as far as I am concerned they are not a different race just a linguistic group which is the same with almost every other ethnicity in Iran, almost every other aspect of their culture relates to other Iranians. 
 
As for PJAK, they don't have much support among Iran's Kurds from what I watch on Tishk (PDKI channel) whereas PDKI do.  PDKI do not serve the interests of certain external parties very well that is why PJAK were created.  I obviously don't live in Kurdistan anymore but if independence was what the majority wanted then I would whole heartedly support it and I know that the majority don't from my contact with family there and what I watch on Tishk.  And I would only actively be pro-independence if there was ever a real representative government in Tehran which did not respect Kurdish rights because then I would know that there isn't hope in a free Iran which is the goal for now.
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 18:53
Well said. Iranian government is a fanatic religious gang who cares about nothing but money and their religious propaganda to rule Iranian people.  
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  Quote DocStaph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 19:19
Originally posted by True Afghan

.but then i think Afghanistan future lies with post Akhond Iran and Central asian then paksitan...for from time of Angreez until today all we got form Pakistan is Dewband and Taliban. 

 This troublesome nation is no longer a problem for just Afghanistan and India.it is a problem for the entire civilized world.
 
Taliban were not pakistani's creation, pakistan wants to take credit for them.. but they were never the direct creation.
 
And your second comment, Pakistan has been noted as "the most dangerous place on earth"...
 
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 12:31
Excuse me all, I guess we all are moving away from the main topic.
 
Dear TrueAfghan,
Da loe ceshtan tahala pa fazil za way nar Afghan da Kandahar da Dechekne da woleswale aw da malajat da qareye yam aw pa qawm Baloch yam no zma pa khyal aus ba taso kom guman pa zera ke ba nalare, che Aya za Afghan yam ka na aw ka chere mo yaqeen ows ham narazi no za ba khupal Afghani Tazkera taso to der post kam.
 
Kho pa badal ke taso ba ham rata khupal tazkera ra shaye, aw Tazkera da Afghanistan Howyat Laronke darlodalay no ka chere taso da reshtya Afghan yast no atman dersara lareye ba!
 
Sorry for language switching that's because TrueAfghan had some doubts regarding my Identity, so I had to let me know that I am an Afghan.
 
Anyways my point with opening this thread was to get your point of views on developing the situations of both countries, but here I guess I have caused some kind of a regional word war between Afghans and Pakistanis. So I am sorry about it and now I am moving back to the words of Alexander's mother (Alexander the Great) who wrote to his son that "this is a land (Afghanistan) that will never allow anyone to rule it and never will it be ruled and developed by it's own people!"
 
So I guess it's then true that no matter what you want to do for the people of both side again and again there will be foriegn hands to stop even a single spark of peace in the region, and that makes me feel so sad.
 
I mean it's not just these two countries who have spend some bad past but many other countries in the world as well, but they had learned from there past and have developed their relations for their future but I don't see anything like this going on over this God Forsaken land which I guess will remain the same till end of time.
 
And the main cause of it is not outer people but our own youth and elders who don't want to see a change for the sake of our coming generations, to be honest it's soo sad to see this thread in such a situation where I wanted to develope relations but instead have ended with worsening the situation....
 
I wish our people could understand but I don't think they do so may Allah teach these people the correct path.


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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 19:34

Its not about which Kurdish political group is what...the point is Kurds have distinct identity, language and culturethus they deserve a country of their own. I thin its just absurd that we can go on and badmouth Imperialist and west but then we shut down our eyes on our own islamic imperialism of Turkswhom dont even allow our Kurdish brothers and sister to identity themselves as Kurdor that of Dari speaking Azari Turk of Iran(but at lest Iran as country is based on Shiasim---a successor of Shia Turk Saffavid kingdom) and that of Arabs in shape of despicable Saddam.

Unless we Iranic people over come this internal imperialism and base our relationship with each other on understand and acceptance we will always be vulnerable to western imperialism.

 

 

 

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 19:35
Originally posted by DocStaph

Originally posted by True Afghan

.but then i think Afghanistan future lies with post Akhond Iran and Central asian then paksitan...for from time of Angreez until today all we got form Pakistan is Dewband and Taliban. 

 This troublesome nation is no longer a problem for just Afghanistan and India.it is a problem for the entire civilized world.
 
Taliban were not pakistani's creation, pakistan wants to take credit for them.. but they were never the direct creation.
 
And your second comment, Pakistan has been noted as "the most dangerous place on earth"...
 
 

Yea the Taliban got their brand new weapon from Tokyo and they have their base in Mars from where they daily attack Afghanistan.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 20:03
Originally posted by True Afghan

Its not about which Kurdish political group is what...the point is Kurds have distinct identity, language and culture thus they deserve a country of their own.

 
Actually there are about 5 different mainstream Kurdish languages with some as close to each other as they are to Persian, such as Kalhori/Bashuri and Feyli (my group) Vs. Sorani and Kermanji Vs. Gorani.  The Kurds are finally finding their path and will reach it through their own means. 
 
Do you agree that Afghanistan should simply be divided along ethnic lines too?  Because your rationale also applies to Afghanistan.  I have heard many Tajiks complain of Pashtun domineering.
 
 I thin its just absurd that we can go on and badmouth Imperialist and west but then we shut down our eyes on our own islamic imperialism of Turkswhom dont even allow our Kurdish brothers and sister to identity themselves as Kurdor that of Dari speaking Azari Turk of Iran(but at lest Iran as country is based on Shiasim---a successor of Shia Turk Saffavid kingdom) and that of Arabs in shape of despicable Saddam.

Unless we Iranic people over come this internal imperialism and base our relationship with each other on understand and acceptance we will always be vulnerable to western imperialism.

 
Well, ironically, Shia and Wahhabi Islam is what largely fragmented us - they should be removed from politics and pacified into respected spiritual movements of choice rather than imposition just as the Qur'an prescribes itself.  That would require a complete purge of the ranked clergy system along with its high ranking political proponents.   As history has shown the extra-regional forces seek to keep Islamic ignorance rife because it spreads disunity and violence.  Examples are the British funded Shia Mullahs, British support of Wahhabi movement and American support of the same.  Al-Qaeda itself is the name of a CIA trained wahhabi terrorist database.
 

 

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2008 at 20:18
Originally posted by Gharanai

Excuse me all, I guess we all are moving away from the main topic.
 
Dear TrueAfghan,
Da loe ceshtan tahala pa fazil za way nar Afghan da Kandahar da Dechekne da woleswale aw da malajat da qareye yam aw pa qawm Baloch yam no zma pa khyal aus ba taso kom guman pa zera ke ba nalare, che Aya za Afghan yam ka na aw ka chere mo yaqeen ows ham narazi no za ba khupal Afghani Tazkera taso to der post kam.
 
Kho pa badal ke taso ba ham rata khupal tazkera ra shaye, aw Tazkera da Afghanistan Howyat Laronke darlodalay no ka chere taso da reshtya Afghan yast no atman dersara lareye ba!
 
Sorry for language switching that's because TrueAfghan had some doubts regarding my Identity, so I had to let me know that I am an Afghan.
 
Anyways my point with opening this thread was to get your point of views on developing the situations of both countries, but here I guess I have caused some kind of a regional word war between Afghans and Pakistanis. So I am sorry about it and now I am moving back to the words of Alexander's mother (Alexander the Great) who wrote to his son that "this is a land (Afghanistan) that will never allow anyone to rule it and never will it be ruled and developed by it's own people!"
 
So I guess it's then true that no matter what you want to do for the people of both side again and again there will be foriegn hands to stop even a single spark of peace in the region, and that makes me feel so sad.
 
I mean it's not just these two countries who have spend some bad past but many other countries in the world as well, but they had learned from there past and have developed their relations for their future but I don't see anything like this going on over this God Forsaken land which I guess will remain the same till end of time.
 
And the main cause of it is not outer people but our own youth and elders who don't want to see a change for the sake of our coming generations, to be honest it's soo sad to see this thread in such a situation where I wanted to develope relations but instead have ended with worsening the situation....
 
I wish our people could understand but I don't think they do so may Allah teach these people the correct path.
 
 

 

Der sha.. noe mata woya che somra kandhair ye che ghare Ghiratmand Torzan Afghanian de Tor makh Punjabian Gholam she? 

 

Indeed what you say fits perfectly with enemys propaganda.. trying to make afghans feel ashmed of their culture so indic culture can be imposed on them. Im glade that you mention Alexandra the greatbut you forget that after Alexander the Afghanistan produce one of greatest culture of Greek-Buddhist---Ghandhara civilization. Then it was Balkh which was called Amo Balatmother of cities by Arab because of her civilizationbirth place of Zoroastrian.Later after Arab invasion it was the land of Afghanistan that produce greatest Imam of Muslim---Imam Hazam Abu Hanifathat is why you and me are Suni Muslim today. Then it was from Afghanistan that Sammaid rose, then Ghanznivd, then Ghories and so on and on.. so the idea that Afghan will not buid their country is absurdthe fact is the present miseries of Afghanistan is all due to being shut land lock and the division of Afghanistan power grid with infamous Durand line.

 

Now the question to Ghiratmand Kandhari afghan like you is why do you want to serve the enemy when today first time in our history we have a clear strategical advantage over them? Why you purpose enslavement of afghanimposition of Indic culture and continuation of misuse of holy islam as a tool to subdue our people?

Even in term of development..if you think about it all  the problems with drugs in Afghanistan and exploitation of sarhad Pashtoonistan(NFWP/Baluchistan/FATA) can be traced directly to the division of Pashtoonistan and Afghanistan. Its simple economics , when you divide the infrastructure and resources of an organization it becomes inefficient and enters into whats called a diseconomy of scale which creates the need to compensate for the deficiencies, often through illegal activities. Even in NFWP/Baluchistan/FATA, whatever the locals in the region produce is contributed to Punjab because they have a greater population. Which puts the Sarhad Pashtoonistan region into greater diseconomy of scale because there is a lack of synergy.  Now when Afghanistan and Pashtunistan reunite, this would create a synergy which would be beneficial to both regions and place them in Economies of Scale. With such an economy of scale traders in Pashtonistan will have easier access to Central Asia and be able to exchange goods with miminalized cost, Important industries in Afghanistan like production of qaleen rugs would now be accessible in Pashtonistan and Afghanistan and Pashtonkhaw would benefit from improved agriculture because of the integration of tributaries which would end droughts permanently in both regions. This would put a complete abolishment of drug production in Afghanistan This would also create ecological and environmental rejuvination of the region through reivtalized vegetation through cultivation of forests and trees. With the greater expanse of land under a central government then the growing population of both regions can be more evenly distributed which would eliminate the effects of over population and would be ecologically sound. Most electricity produced in Pashtonkhaw is not used in that region, most Pashtoons in Pakistan do not get sufficient electricity despite the fact that production effects their infrastructure and environment. In other words Pashtoons are paying more for the few resources. So this disproportion while these facilities are based on Pashtoon lands effects the surroundings which means it hurts Pashtoons more. Its a known fact that Punjab currently used 7500 MW of power annually while NWFP only uses 1.2 MW, which is same as Kabul. Now if we can reintegrate the power grid between NWFP , Kandahar , Kabul and Nangrahar we can produce sufficient electrify while using ONLY 2.5-3.0 MW. This would be both ecologically and technologically beneficial and we could also export electricity.
When drought hit Afghanistan, NFWP and Balochistan also get effected I this because I have family members who are married to people from Pashtonistan.having some facilities in Peshawar will not compensate for the rest of the Pashtoons there. But these problems can change if we redirect and reassess the allocations of local infrastructure and resources. Most of NWFP and Baluchistans irrigation originates through Afghanistan, and the impediments of that current causes things to dry out. So reunion of Pashtonistan and Afghanistan would be a permanent solution. The only way to rectify these issues in Afghanistan is to reunite and reallocate everything this way ALL the poverty you see in BOTH Afghanistan and NWFP will become greatly eliminated.
Once Pashtonistan reunite thus Afghanistan will become strong we will help Balochs acquire Baluchistan exchange that they make a cooperative deal to allow us access and usage of their ports with minimal or no tariffs. That way we would have more beneficial access to sea and our land can become hub for central Asia trade. Then in couple of decade we can help our Persian, and Kurds brother and sister so they can free themselves from Dari speaking Azari Turks domination and abolish Waliyati Faqithis we can eventually enter in a co-federation of Iranic peoplea true successor of Persian, Sammanid, Ghaznavid, Abduli and Empires. It is possible because we Iranic people share culture, history and race.  

It is impssoible with indic people.. for first we do not share culture, race and history with indic people---other then ruling themalso because the indic Muslim lake an identitythat is the reason they clutch political islam.. now they do not do this for moral virtue but because for it allows them a platform to disassociate from their racial and cultural brother---Hindus and second to subdue the Muslim Iranic people in name of Islamthat is why simpletons like Taliban will continue to survive for forcing pashtons into extremismbrainwashing pashton youth into Pakistani state run madrassa---keeping the British forward police of FATA and PATAthus keeping pashtons backward and ignorantso they would be more likely to their pawn..and in return cashing the blood of these pawns from their beloved Saheeb fits their agenda very well.

 

 

 

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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 02:40
True Afghan
Anyways what I mean by Iran invasion of Azari people I mean the state Iranfor  Dari/Farsi speaking Azari rulers and elites are Azari by race only they have adopted Persian language. Indeed this is why I think they formally change Persia name to Iran in 1932 so their rule can be more acceptable.
 
Confused
 
Azari? Azari is an extinct language.
 
I've never heard of such a conspiracy that Azeri, Azeri Turks or simply Torks as they are known in Iran did what you claim, do you have any sources or are you just making it up.
 
True_Afghan I thin its just absurd that we can go on and badmouth Imperialist and west but then we shut down our eyes on our own islamic imperialism of Turkswhom dont even allow our Kurdish brothers and sister to identity themselves as Kurdor that of Dari speaking Azari Turk of Iran(but at lest Iran as country is based on Shiasim---a successor of Shia Turk Saffavid kingdom) and that of Arabs in shape of despicable Saddam.
 
 
What do you mean by "Islamic" imperialism of Turks?
 
True Afghan
Once Pashtonistan reunite thus Afghanistan will become strong we will help Balochs acquire Baluchistan exchange that they make a cooperative deal to allow us access and usage of their ports with minimal or no tariffs. That way we would have more beneficial access to sea and our land can become hub for central Asia trade. Then in couple of decade we can help our Persian, and Kurds brother and sister so they can free themselves from Dari speaking Azari Turks domination and abolish Waliyati Faqithis we can eventually enter in a co-federation of Iranic peoplea true successor of Persian, Sammanid, Ghaznavid, Abduli and Empires. It is possible because we Iranic people share culture, history and race.
 
Are you being serious?
So Persians and Kurds are going to fight for independance from the psuedo-Persian undercover Turks to join Afghanistan and then lead a war against Pakistan...
 
Also you do realise that the Ghaznavids as Persianized as they became were actually founded and ruled by a Turkic millitary oligarchy.
 
There is another flaw in your logic, you say Iran should be divided among ethnic lines, well a part of northern Afghanistan is known as Southern Turkistan and is currently ruled de-facto by General Dostum. What if the Turkic community try to seperate?
 
Then what about the Tajiks? they are Iranic aswell, what is to be of them and Tajikistan?
 
I'm not against some Iranic union of states where Afganistan and Iran form some sort of pollitical union via peacefull agreements. This could work as there would be no need for a war, the union would be for mutual gain and both governments would support it, if it were to happen.
 
However, what your suggesting is a recipe for disaster, your advocating taking on Pakistan a nucleur power, cutting the Torks out of Iran and another revolution in the country. Do you really think this is sensible?
 
And lastly, what has this got to do with a Pak Afghan Confederation?


Edited by Bulldog - 14-Apr-2008 at 02:40
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 15:08
Originally posted by True Afghan

 

Der sha.. noe mata woya che somra kandhair ye che ghare Ghiratmand Torzan Afghanian de Tor makh Punjabian Gholam she? 

 

Indeed what you say fits perfectly with enemys propaganda.. trying to make afghans feel ashmed of their culture so indic culture can be imposed on them. Im glade that you mention Alexandra the greatbut you forget that after Alexander the Afghanistan produce one of greatest culture of Greek-Buddhist---Ghandhara civilization. Then it was Balkh which was called Amo Balatmother of cities by Arab because of her civilizationbirth place of Zoroastrian.Later after Arab invasion it was the land of Afghanistan that produce greatest Imam of Muslim---Imam Hazam Abu Hanifathat is why you and me are Suni Muslim today. Then it was from Afghanistan that Sammaid rose, then Ghanznivd, then Ghories and so on and on.. so the idea that Afghan will not buid their country is absurdthe fact is the present miseries of Afghanistan is all due to being shut land lock and the division of Afghanistan power grid with infamous Durand line.

 

Now the question to Ghiratmand Kandhari afghan like you is why do you want to serve the enemy when today first time in our history we have a clear strategical advantage over them? Why you purpose enslavement of afghanimposition of Indic culture and continuation of misuse of holy islam as a tool to subdue our people?

Even in term of development..if you think about it all  the problems with drugs in Afghanistan and exploitation of sarhad Pashtoonistan(NFWP/Baluchistan/FATA) can be traced directly to the division of Pashtoonistan and Afghanistan. Its simple economics , when you divide the infrastructure and resources of an organization it becomes inefficient and enters into whats called a diseconomy of scale which creates the need to compensate for the deficiencies, often through illegal activities. Even in NFWP/Baluchistan/FATA, whatever the locals in the region produce is contributed to Punjab because they have a greater population. Which puts the Sarhad Pashtoonistan region into greater diseconomy of scale because there is a lack of synergy.  Now when Afghanistan and Pashtunistan reunite, this would create a synergy which would be beneficial to both regions and place them in Economies of Scale. With such an economy of scale traders in Pashtonistan will have easier access to Central Asia and be able to exchange goods with miminalized cost, Important industries in Afghanistan like production of qaleen rugs would now be accessible in Pashtonistan and Afghanistan and Pashtonkhaw would benefit from improved agriculture because of the integration of tributaries which would end droughts permanently in both regions. This would put a complete abolishment of drug production in Afghanistan This would also create ecological and environmental rejuvination of the region through reivtalized vegetation through cultivation of forests and trees. With the greater expanse of land under a central government then the growing population of both regions can be more evenly distributed which would eliminate the effects of over population and would be ecologically sound. Most electricity produced in Pashtonkhaw is not used in that region, most Pashtoons in Pakistan do not get sufficient electricity despite the fact that production effects their infrastructure and environment. In other words Pashtoons are paying more for the few resources. So this disproportion while these facilities are based on Pashtoon lands effects the surroundings which means it hurts Pashtoons more. Its a known fact that Punjab currently used 7500 MW of power annually while NWFP only uses 1.2 MW, which is same as Kabul. Now if we can reintegrate the power grid between NWFP , Kandahar , Kabul and Nangrahar we can produce sufficient electrify while using ONLY 2.5-3.0 MW. This would be both ecologically and technologically beneficial and we could also export electricity.
When drought hit Afghanistan, NFWP and Balochistan also get effected I this because I have family members who are married to people from Pashtonistan.having some facilities in Peshawar will not compensate for the rest of the Pashtoons there. But these problems can change if we redirect and reassess the allocations of local infrastructure and resources. Most of NWFP and Baluchistans irrigation originates through Afghanistan, and the impediments of that current causes things to dry out. So reunion of Pashtonistan and Afghanistan would be a permanent solution. The only way to rectify these issues in Afghanistan is to reunite and reallocate everything this way ALL the poverty you see in BOTH Afghanistan and NWFP will become greatly eliminated.
Once Pashtonistan reunite thus Afghanistan will become strong we will help Balochs acquire Baluchistan exchange that they make a cooperative deal to allow us access and usage of their ports with minimal or no tariffs. That way we would have more beneficial access to sea and our land can become hub for central Asia trade. Then in couple of decade we can help our Persian, and Kurds brother and sister so they can free themselves from Dari speaking Azari Turks domination and abolish Waliyati Faqithis we can eventually enter in a co-federation of Iranic peoplea true successor of Persian, Sammanid, Ghaznavid, Abduli and Empires. It is possible because we Iranic people share culture, history and race.  

It is impssoible with indic people.. for first we do not share culture, race and history with indic people---other then ruling themalso because the indic Muslim lake an identitythat is the reason they clutch political islam.. now they do not do this for moral virtue but because for it allows them a platform to disassociate from their racial and cultural brother---Hindus and second to subdue the Muslim Iranic people in name of Islamthat is why simpletons like Taliban will continue to survive for forcing pashtons into extremismbrainwashing pashton youth into Pakistani state run madrassa---keeping the British forward police of FATA and PATAthus keeping pashtons backward and ignorantso they would be more likely to their pawn..and in return cashing the blood of these pawns from their beloved Saheeb fits their agenda very well.

 

Dear brother,
I have never said anything about the inslavement of Afghans by the Pakistanis, if you read my comments and ideas it's just a proposal to brotherhood, and I am sure that you very well know that the term Brotherhood has a history way older than the word Pars leave Afghan, Aryana or Khorasan apart.
 
That's what our belove profit showed us and that was the main cause that Islam boomed and grew to entire world.
 
I know we (Afghans and Pakistanis) don't have a good past and their are alot of things and thinkings which will come in between the proposal (what I am asking) but still I guess if this continuess ok I agree that we do have a strategic advantage right now but what about tomorrow when they will have the same advantage again a war will break down.
 
Oh and what do you think when Afghanistan was invaded by the Russians the Americans used Pakistan to stop Russian influence in the region and now that Russia is trying to get back to the world politics game, won't they use Pakistan to play the same game one more time????
 
Things aren't as easy and smoth as you think my dear there are lots and lots of factors to be thought about before going to war or taking advantage of the situation for the time being, I am sure any political analyst will think 10-15 years onwards before taking any decision, so just for a while think with an open mind, think about the future and at least while you are setting outside of the War torn country, try to feel the pain of the people living in the country.
Lots of people setting outside says that we are a proud nation we have given our sons to defend the country .... this and that, but what are you doing right now? If you are thinking of your nation and the people then why don't you come to the country and sacrefice your own life for the motos.... I mean setting their and saying things is easier than going in and doing things.
 
So while you yourself have a peaceful life don't try to stop others from having one....!!!!
 
I wish you have understood my idea and concern!


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2008 at 15:16
 So while you yourself have a peaceful life don't try to stop others from having one....!!!!
 
Well said marra!
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 05:48
NWFP only uses 1.2 MW, which is same as Kabul. Now if we can reintegrate the power grid between NWFP , Kandahar , Kabul and Nangrahar we can produce sufficient electrify while using ONLY 2.5-3.0 MW. This would be both ecologically and technologically beneficial and we could also export electricity.


Oh Khudah you know nothing about Electricity!

The whole of NWFP uses only 1.2MW!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2008 at 12:19
2.5 MW of electricity? Well done, that should be enough for about a dozen city blocks.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 17:32
Originally posted by Partisan Rebel

@CHAUDRY and pretty much anyone who is having problems grasping this novel concept...

What we are dealing with here is an idea that clearly diverges from or perhaps has not really been considered by mainstream thought in Afganistan/Pakistan.

It is the small minority of innovative thinkers that lead a country towards positive change. Clearly the percieved experience of people and their world view is fickle at best. Chaudry mentioned that Pakistanis united with their brothers in Afghanistan to drive out the Russians, how quickly and how divergently does the memory of this triumph change once the event became tainted by a negative experience. The power vacuume left by the Russian withdrawl from Afghanistan unfortunately created a conflict ridden enviromnment of which obviously did not appeal to certain minorities, thus the negative impression left towards Pakistanis in general.

About what Afganistan can offer Pakistan, my opinion is that one cannot look at the concept of unification (reunification) from one particular angle. More productively, one should look at what both countries can offer eachother - and that is political stability, which was already mentioned. Also economic viability, in a global market the Union would offer a wealthly and lucrative labor market with access to and transit routes connecting neighbouring countries...the possibilities become listless once one considers them.

My question or comment is that, myself, living in Canada have been previlaged to live in a modest plural society. My cultural world view is seen through this lense, to acknowledge and respect cultural differences. My feelling is that for such a union to flourish, there needs to be an emphasis in Pluralism in a Secular, Democratic Society with an emphasis on the Rule of Law balanced by political accountability.
Agreed.
 
Looking at the almost 30 years of struggle within Afghanistan, one can see that it had a direct effect on Western Pakistan.  It is natural for these countries to work together in tackling the problems of their age.  And in the end, if it is meant to be, the countries can work bilaterally on many issues that can help strengthen the two countries.
 
When both countries are able to stand on their own two feet without foreign intervention, the opportunity can arise to build a confederation to tackle the varied problems that may arise in their geographical region in the future.


Edited by Afghanan - 25-Apr-2008 at 17:33
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2008 at 20:48
After a long time since the topic had started and many different views where given, especially at a time that was more peaceful and calm.
How many people are around who now agrees with my statement of "The only way of survival for both countries (Afghanistan and Pakistan) is to join hands together and fight the common enemy of illitracy, economic problems, geo-politic problems and of anyone who tries to occupay it."
 
Now that both countries are at a situation of allmost encountering each other on daily basis, I am sure that the number of people who will find this solution workable would be more than the last time......


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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2008 at 21:14
Those are quite strong point of view and I totaly respect your view.
But if you guess the situation that you have defined, either being a Pakistani or an Afghan, I don't think you will find any success to any nation.
 
Pakistan for sure, as you described will be divided in to pieces, therefore they will abvously be the big loser.
As far Afghanistan is concerned, The PashtunKhwa Province will do very little for
 
Afghanistan's Stability and Economy. The only thing that will improve will be the ethnic wars, as Pashtuns while then being more than 3/4 of total Afghan Population will claim much more of the stakes and the other ethnics who always claim of delt as second grade people, then won't even have the power to claim those words.
 
Originally posted by ^

baluchi and adjascent area will go to iran,sind will become a new country along with another country punjab
That's a blow for Afghanistan as a path to open waters closes again and then Afghanistan will be totaly depended on Iran.
While Iran has always loved an unstable Afghanistan, I don't know what more will they do to our people in that case.
 
I know what you are talking about is fully based on those maps of 1990s and early 2000, and I also know that it's not just you but many big players (western countries) who are looking toward this solution, and that's why I am asking people of both nations to realize the great crises that is on it's way and start protective way from now on.
 
I just love my country, the people of my country and each single inch of it's being, that's why I care for it's future and look for ways that can make it progress, it's what way back in the 50s, Wesh Zalmyan (Awake/Enlightened Youths) started doing and it's what I am looking towards doing, of Awakening the Youths of my nation to step forward towards building and defending our nation, without being Hazara or Tajik or Pashtun or Uzbek or Baluch but being one AFGHAN.


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  Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2009 at 02:04
Originally posted by Partisan Rebel

@CHAUDRY and pretty much anyone who is having problems grasping this novel concept...

What we are dealing with here is an idea that clearly diverges from or perhaps has not really been considered by mainstream thought in Afganistan/Pakistan.

It is the small minority of innovative thinkers that lead a country towards positive change. Clearly the percieved experience of people and their world view is fickle at best. Chaudry mentioned that Pakistanis united with their brothers in Afghanistan to drive out the Russians, how quickly and how divergently does the memory of this triumph change once the event became tainted by a negative experience. The power vacuume left by the Russian withdrawl from Afghanistan unfortunately created a conflict ridden enviromnment of which obviously did not appeal to certain minorities, thus the negative impression left towards Pakistanis in general.

About what Afganistan can offer Pakistan, my opinion is that one cannot look at the concept of unification (reunification) from one particular angle. More productively, one should look at what both countries can offer eachother - and that is political stability, which was already mentioned. Also economic viability, in a global market the Union would offer a wealthly and lucrative labor market with access to and transit routes connecting neighbouring countries...the possibilities become listless once one considers them.

My question or comment is that, myself, living in Canada have been previlaged to live in a modest plural society. My cultural world view is seen through this lense, to acknowledge and respect cultural differences. My feelling is that for such a union to flourish, there needs to be an emphasis in Pluralism in a Secular, Democratic Society with an emphasis on the Rule of Law balanced by political accountability.
 
Well said :)
 
its odd, that while the nations of Europe and North America encourage diversity and are prospering, Afghanistan and Pakistan dont make the same association especially when it is in both of their interests and a realization of their longstanding shared history.  It is mandatory and a must in order for them to move forward.  Failure to do otherwise, will result in the perpetuation of the current situation.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2009 at 21:02
It is not bound to Afghanistan and Pakistan only as being related to the cause of Pushtuns only, there are seven countries in the South Asian region that are inter-related by one way or other. Even if be the talk of Pushtun you must see that the offspring of Afghans in the present India might be much more than that of the original population of their native home. Similarly Sik'hs have almost all their religious places in Pakistan. In this present day division of boundaries not a single nationality of people has not remained on any single side of the boundry. From Amu Dary or Jihun to Bengal just rub out the boundaries and enjoy peace and prosperity. There had not remained any religious differences in India or South Asia in Greater Empires of India, it did emerge in later Mughal period by Aurangzeb Alamgir when the Empire got then weakened and westerns had only then got the opportunity to intrude as a force in the area. Then there did not remain any other way but just to divide the empire after ousting the British, it was never liked by the leaders but the circumstances were such that they were compelled to the division. It can be revived now on the line of the old empire but needs bring up the elements to commend and make it public. 
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