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The best medieval unit

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Poll Question: The Best unit
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
39 [34.21%]
6 [5.26%]
20 [17.54%]
14 [12.28%]
0 [0.00%]
8 [7.02%]
4 [3.51%]
2 [1.75%]
0 [0.00%]
21 [18.42%]
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warhead View Drop Down
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The best medieval unit
    Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 21:36
I want the primary source for this, because none of those I've came across regarding to Mongolian tactics mention these.
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner View Drop Down
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 05:30

Originally posted by warhead

I want the primary source for this, because none of those I've came across regarding to Mongolian tactics mention these.

I'll see what I can track down.

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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Mangudai View Drop Down
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 09:23
The mongols simply won most, so I casted my vote on them (the archers). But I guess the keshik and the mamluks were the best kind of unit available, although they were too few. The teutonic knights sucked big time, but the order's crossbowmen were pretty good...
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  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 15:12
Bah, sucked? You're talking about the Teutonic Order itself, one of probally the hardiest groups of men ever so devoted to religion, helping hold back the tide of the Muslims. Now combine skill, power, devotion, and German stubborness, and you have one hell of a fighting force. They weren't as good as some others, but they didn't suck, either.

Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 18:35
Originally posted by SovietJesus

Originally posted by dsjdsj

Originally posted by Cywr

Do you think you could make your points and express your opinions with out trolling?

this is not trolling. I think that the longbows are better. What's wrong with that?

You were making fun of the asian way of making bows. That's trolling.

you are seriously annoying me. All I said was the asian bows were harder to manufacture than the longbow. This is not trolling, you are talking nonesense.



Edited by dsjdsj
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Ptolemy View Drop Down
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  Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 18:49
Can someone tell me of some battles where the Roman Cataphracts were used with success. I would imagine Basil II used them a lot as he was buried near a cavalry training area.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 19:59

you are seriously annoying me. All I said was the asian bows were harder to manufacture than the longbow. This is not trolling, you are talking nonesense.

Sure, Longbows are a heck lot easier to make, just that they are not as good in performance as asian ones

Grrr..
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  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 20:38

Originally posted by Someone

you are seriously annoying me. All I said was the asian bows were harder to manufacture than the longbow. This is not trolling, you are talking nonesense.

Your wording implied it, or I just seriously screwed up the translation.


Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 20:59
Originally posted by SovietJesus

Originally posted by Someone

you are seriously annoying me. All I said was the asian bows were harder to manufacture than the longbow. This is not trolling, you are talking nonesense.

Your wording implied it, or I just seriously screwed up the translation.

a waste time to talk with you.

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 08:23

Originally posted by SovietJesus

Bah, sucked? You're talking about the Teutonic Order itself, one of probally the hardiest groups of men ever so devoted to religion, helping hold back the tide of the Muslims. Now combine skill, power, devotion, and German stubborness, and you have one hell of a fighting force. They weren't as good as some others, but they didn't suck, either.

Muslims? The teutonic knights mainly fought the balts, as you know. And they were heavily defeated by the balts (prussians, lithuanians) in various battles

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 12:45
don't forget the Order of St. maria was initially founded in the Holy land and they also fought against Muslims there...
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 06:44
Originally posted by demon

you are seriously annoying me. All I said was the asian bows were harder to manufacture than the longbow. This is not trolling, you are talking nonesense.

Sure, Longbows are a heck lot easier to make, just that they are not as good in performance as asian ones

Demon,

This is actually debateable.

Composite bows can launch arrows at far longer ranges with special flight arrows.

But, both types were used in battle at similar ranges.

And the English soldier of fortune, Sir John Smythe (who fought in the Balkans against the Turks), was of the opinion that the longbow was better, as he mentioned in his famous 1590 treatise, Certain Discourses Military.

Peace,

David

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 07:44

But Turkish arrows could not pierce armour!  While Mongol arrows could.

I don't think long bow was any easier to make. Is there any sources for this? After all, it was big and required skill (no plain idiot could make a bow that has such a long range and strong strike power).



Edited by Evildoer
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demon View Drop Down
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 07:46

But, both types were used in battle at similar ranges.

Oh well.  Maybe because all battles Ive studies with composite bow were defensive warfare (defending fort), I would agree with you on that .

Grrr..
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 07:52
Originally posted by Evildoer

But Turkish arrows could not pierce armour!  While Mongol arrows could.

Still trolling, I see?

Turkish and Mongol bows were very similar, as I'm sure you know. 

I don't think long bow was any easier to make. Is there any sources for this? After all, it was big and required skill (no plain idiot could make a bow that has such a long range and strong strike power).

Both require a skilled bowyer, to be sure--but the fact remains that the construction of a composite bow is a far more complicated process.

Peace,

David

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 08:06

range isn't the only measurement of performance..

composite bows were more complicated to make and maintain, but they made up for this with better accuracy and piercing power..

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Evildoer View Drop Down
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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 09:44

His Majesty Landsknektface has trolled "trolling again?" without bringing forth any evidence to disprove my claim. I suggest His Majesty bring some proofs before trolling. 



Edited by Evildoer
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 09:49

Vote = Mongol Archers

Best range, best bows, best arrows, best tactics............I'm noticing a trend there

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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner View Drop Down
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 23:01

 

double post

 



Edited by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner View Drop Down
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 23:04
Originally posted by I/eye

range isn't the only measurement of performance..

composite bows were more complicated to make and maintain, but they made up for this with better accuracy and piercing power..

What are your sources for the supposedly better "piercing power" of the composite bow over the longbow?

 

 

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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