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The best medieval unit

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Poll Question: The Best unit
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
39 [34.21%]
6 [5.26%]
20 [17.54%]
14 [12.28%]
0 [0.00%]
8 [7.02%]
4 [3.51%]
2 [1.75%]
0 [0.00%]
21 [18.42%]
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Conan the destroyer View Drop Down
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  Quote Conan the destroyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The best medieval unit
    Posted: 01-Jul-2005 at 09:11

It has to be the ming dynasty elite combat force under the command of general Qi. They defeated the mongols several times.

Added to that, general Qi defeated the Japanese pirates with vastly inferior numbers.



Edited by Conan the destroyer
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 17:02

where is the french napoleonic infantry facts proving they were better than that of the british who stood against and beat them in every major battle of the period

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 16:57
Originally posted by Demetrios

   First of all, similar units should be compared:  Cavalry and bowmen are two distinct aspects of warfare.....so

  Before 1526  (battle of pavia)

 Best  Heavy infantry: Macedonian's,  flamand's( belgium) or swiss's phalanx

 Best light infantry: English (welsh) longbowmen

 Best heavy cavalry: French Full plated knights

 Best Light cavalry: parthians or mongols mounted archers

 Best overall units: Tibetans heavy cavalry and Carolingians  "milites" ( both were heavy armored cavalry, armed whith bow and spear and could dismount as well)

After 1526 and before Napoleon

 Best heavy cavalry: no more useless against firearms

 Best light cavalry: not very useful but cossacks

 Best heavy infantry: no more

 Best light infantry: French gunners

From napoleon to "waterloo"

 Best cavalry: french hussards

 Best infantry: french "grognards"

 Sorry it's not french pride, it's just an historical fact

From waterloo to WWII

 Best cavalry: hard to say, can't make up my mind; perhaps US confederate cavalry

 Best infantry: Prussian gunners 

Since WWII:

 Best cavalry ( armored vehicles): US abrahams tank

 Best infantry: German third Reich's SS and French Legions

I don't have enough knowledge to speculate on navy and aviation

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 02:18
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

Greek infantry was the best unit especialy in batlle of marathon 490 B.C


I agree they were extremely effective
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vulkan02 View Drop Down
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2005 at 17:09
How come no one mentioned the Turkish Jannisaries. They were surely the best infantry back then.
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 16:23

arab fighter was  greatest warrior if you read the arab expand it is so fast

they ruled half of ancient world in 50 years

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 16:20
Greek infantry was the best unit especialy in batlle of marathon 490 B.C
"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 15:43

I think the best mdieval unit is:

chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

2/3 cavalry, 1/3 infantry>>

 >>

CAVALRY :>>

5 000 Heavy Knights: most important part in my army, equiped with heavy gothic-plate armor of proff (witch resist agaisnt arrow, crossbow blots, pistol or arquebus balls) armed with lances and swords. Mounted on knightly horses equiped with heavy armor (bard with flanchard, crinet, crupper, peytral, shaffron)>>

1 000 light cavalry of mounted archers protected by a light armor with cuirass and mail, gauntlet, greaves also armed with gun pistol and  sword, mace and shield>>

 >>

INFANTRY>>

- equiped with light chain mail, sallet, >>

- armed with shield, long knifes, dagger,  sword, war hammer or axe or mace for hand to hand combat>>

2 000 archers (mix of longbowmen and arbalestrers)>>

2 000 men armed with gunpowder (arquebus for exemple)>>

2 000 pikemen (like Swiss Halberdiers) with hallebards or fauchards or gisarme,>>

 >>

Tactic:>>

- First attack by infantry shooting against ennemy>>

- Charge of heavy cavalry in 2 assaults to break ennemy ranks >>

- Assault by the rest of heavy cavalry and all the light cavalry against flanks of ennemy>>

- Attack by infantry >>

Under a good chain of command, such army, with so many well-armored-heavy-knight cannot be defgeated by a medieval army.

 

Wath do you think?

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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 10:33

Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Originally posted by Tonifranz

The English Longbowmen. They were the defining weapon of the Hundred Years' War and gave  England it's military reputation during the Middle Ages.


Composite bone and sinew bow using thumb pull was a far superior  weapon than English longbow. Mongol archer could hit a head at 100 meters.

These were also bows used by Ottoman empire. As I argued in another forum, firearms are not really effective until eighteen century.

And as I countered you on that other forum, you are wrong.

Firearms were most certainly very effective from the 16th century onwards--even the Ottomans themselves thought so, as their judicious use of tufek matchlocks demonstrated.

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Hardel View Drop Down
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  Quote Hardel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 07:33
Excuse me.I have a question.I don't know keshik.What people were they?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 05:51

I'm gonna have to say the best for Europe at least would be the Pikemans that Switzerland produced. They really gave The Empire a hard time back then. Other than that the best unit in the world would probaly be the Mongol Archer, but the Japanese Samurai ranks pretty high up there.

The truth is, most of the stuff on games like Age of Empires is full of crap. The War Elephant wasn't really used for war anywhere other than the eastern mid-east, and it didn't match up to the efectiveness of the old days of warfare. In AoE it shows the Paladin being the greatest unit in the game, where as one single line of pikeman could probaly wipe out a bunch of them. It also shows the Teutonic Knight being this awesome warrior swordsman. Its really know better than lets say, a Hungarian Huskarl, or a French Knight.



Edited by FidelcastrolGTX
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 05:06

I gave my vote for the longbowmen. Their best element was the fact that they were expendable. Quantity over quality. They were good but also cheap to train and equip when compared to other troops. It counts as well.

And what comes to Samurai, I think they aren't as good as many people think. Their strategies and tactics sucked. Some of them were really good but most were just like any other professional soldiers. Most samurai boys started their training at the age of 13. Knights were much younger. Only unmatched thing they had was their weapons which were of extremely good quality.

I'm just wondering why normal knights aren't on the list. After all they weren't bad either. And certainly better than genoese crossbows...

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 15:29
Originally posted by ViZion

How about the Teutonic Knights?  Or were those more around the Roman time?

They were lousy warriors, they suffered defeat after defeat in the hands of the prussians, russians and not least the lithuanians

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  Quote chaeohk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 14:50
hehe this post has turned into more of a longbow vs. mongols

my vote would have to go with the mongol archers because of thier success record... they conquered much of two continents...


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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2005 at 19:05

In the battle of Liegnitz the mongols couldn't pierce the armor of the Teutonic Knight, and that armor was equal to the armor of the crusaders in Arsouf. Mongols shooted to horses and then attacked with heavy cavalry.

 

http://home-4.worldonline.nl/~t543201/web-mongol/mongol-ente r-index.htm

"Things were not as they seemed to the European knights, however; they had fallen victim to one of the oldest tricks in the Mongols' book--the feigned retreat. The riders of the steppes, unlike the knights, had been taught to retreat as a tactical move, and in so doing, they drew the knights away from their infantry. Once that was accomplished, the Mongols swept to either side of the knights, who had strung out and lost their own measure of order, and showered them with arrows. Other Mongols had lain in ambush, prepared to meet the knights as they fell into the trap. Whenever the Mongols found that the knights' armor afforded effective protection against their arrows, they simply shot their horses. The dismounted knights were then easy prey for the Mongol heavy cavalrymen, who ran them down with lance or saber with little danger to themselves. The Knights Templar made a determined stand, only to be killed to a man. "

 

The mongols didn't developed new tactics; their boss were very intelligent and their estrategies too. But i think that the real element that explain their rise is the weak of China in that moment; others peoples of the steppes must fight with China, with their inmense armies of cavalry, crossbow, pikes and bows.

With their backs secure in China, when the mongols launch their armies to the west very few enemies could stopped their.

My vote for Byzantine cataphrakts.

 

I forgote it: a very good article about Mongols vs Mamluks

 

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fisher/hst372/readings/amita i-preiss.html

 

bye

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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2005 at 19:15
Originally posted by Tonifranz

The English Longbowmen. They were the defining weapon of the Hundred Years' War and gave  England it's military reputation during the Middle Ages.


Composite bone and sinew bow using thumb pull was a far superior  weapon than English longbow. Mongol archer could hit a head at 100 meters.

These were also bows used by Ottoman empire. As I argued in another forum, firearms are not really effective until eighteen century.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 18:49

How about the Teutonic Knights?  Or were those more around the Roman time?

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  Quote MoriheiUeshiba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 16:13

and because he wouldnt run that means he would die first?

when ur r set up to fight someone the person that run away aka letting his guard down is usually the first to die

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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 06:06

and how do u think he would be the first to go?

because:

... the samurai would never run ... he would kill himself first

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2004 at 16:56
The elephant would have stepped on them all.
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