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Topic: Afrocentric Attack? Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:59 |
Hello:
I have noticed in the last days and increasing number of threads that have to do with the Afrocentric cult. Thinks like
Where the Egyptians Blacks?
Where the Olmecs Blacks?
Was Diop correct?
And similar things have been increasing.
I wonder if we are not under the attack of Afrocentrists, because I notice a group of new fellows that it has focussed in those topics.
Just a though
Pinguin
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Surmount
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:01 |
What people have to understand is that practically all the history we
know of today has been taught written and recorded, and then rewritten
by the Eurocentist. That is why so many people are brainwashed. The
people who rule most of the world will control the history most people
learn.
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Surmount
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:05 |
But i don't understand many Caucasians and others believe there was an African presence in many civilizations. Why isn't it a big deal to them? If you mention that blacks were in ancient civilization it makes some people mad, and some people agree. Its not a big deal.
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Guests
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:33 |
Well, I was talking about you... and others. Precisely.
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Surmount
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:36 |
But i don't understand many Caucasians and others believe there was an African presence in many civilizations. Why isn't it a big deal to them? If you mention that blacks were in ancient civilization it makes some people mad, and some people agree. Its not a big deal. Its just some people Blacks and Caucasians have proved through archeology and other methods, that blacks were in some civilizations. Wow big deal.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:42 |
The big deal is when that fact is acknowledged, then some idiot takes
it to the next level and tries to claim an entire civilisation is
purely black African, such as Egypt. Then they take it to even dumber
levels, trying to claim the most important people were black African
because of some flimsy link to a piece of circumstantial evidence e.g.
Septimius Severus was born in Africa, he became Roman Emperor,
therefore Romans were ruled by black Africans. The complete absence of
any form of rational logical in preference for wishful thinking is so
obvious in claims such as these.
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Guests
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:47 |
Absolutely Agree!
Some are claiming Black Vikings and Black Japaneses already.... gosh!
Pinguin
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Surmount
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:56 |
Afrocentrism is something so many people bring up. Really there
is no such thing. Its just history from a different perspective besides
the usual one written from the European perspective. Humans must realize that we are all apart of history and are all one race the human race.
Thank you
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Guests
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 03:01 |
No need to teach us multiculturalism. Notice that this forum has the history of ALL mankind.
You are welcome
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 03:10 |
[quote=Surmount]Afrocentrism is something so many people bring up. Really there
is no such thing. Its just history from a different perspective besides
the usual one[/quote]
You are right, it is history from a different perspective. The WRONG
perspective. That's what history is when it makes a claim about
something citing a tiny piece of unpersuasive evidence which
contradicts a much larger amount of valid evidence.
This forum has seen a range of crank theories from the original Irish
being black African, to South American civilisations, to classical
Greek thinkers born from Greek families, to a range of others.
In our post-modernist world many people like to believe that reality is
all subjective and everyone has a perfectly and equally valid
viewpoint. People who think that are dreaming. Perspectives don't become
valid or convincing until they are backed up with evidence of
sufficient volume and in sufficient quality to become proof. So far
none of the Afrocentrist theories I have seen have even a fraction of
the credibility that conventional historiography possesses.
Edited by Constantine XI - 18-Aug-2007 at 03:11
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Surmount
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 03:30 |
(quote=Constantine XI)That's what history is when it makes a claim about
something citing a tiny piece of unpersuasive evidence which
contradicts a much larger amount of valid evidence(/quote) I understand what your saying But you have to realize there is substantial evidence that proves The African presence in many civilizations evidence found by many races not just blacks. A lot of the evidence outweighs the dominant Eurocentric perspective, but it's just we all are trained and taught since a young age in school a narrow minded view of history . There are so many caucasian professors that teach African studies in college, and they teach and believe in the African presence in different civilizations. It's not an issue for them.
But i understand what you are saying how some take it too far. It just seems that way.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 03:38 |
One issue about it is that it's also bound to today's political correctness and positive discrimination - it's almost like they want white people to feel guilty because of the wrongs that were done to them by whites. I mean, Great Zimbabwe, Songhai and others were great civilzations, that's a fact. So why do they need to try and seemingly turn more civilizations black (Yes, I'll bet an afrocentrist is going to call me a rascist after this...) I realise that there are different historiological viewpoints, but when these viewpoints try and go against solid fact, then that goes too far - you can try and interpret those facts in a different way, but to try and change the essense of them (As Constantine XI showed in his example...), then it really does go too far. I'm just so bl**dy fed up of reading race-centric posts like "Did the Assyrians look like modern day Arabs?" and "How poweful were blacks in ancient times?" (well, I know they're not real ones, but you get my point - I wouldn't be suprised if I saw titles like that ion this forum.
I realise that we are taught a Eurocentric position from history - we obviously are - but to try and turn that around into an afrocentric postion isn't credible at all.
Edited by Aster Thrax Eupator - 18-Aug-2007 at 03:49
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 03:58 |
Originally posted by Surmount
A lot of the evidence outweighs the dominant Eurocentric perspective,
but it's just we all are trained and taught since a young age in school
a narrow minded view of history. |
What specifically are you saying is wrong? And what do you have to present which you think is more credible?
Also, yes Africans did have a presence in some areas. So a
Nubian trader may have ended up in Rome's merchant district - how
exactly does that change conventional interpretations of history?
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 04:51 |
Originally posted by Surmount
. A lot of the evidence outweighs the dominant Eurocentric perspective, but it's just we all are trained and taught since a young age in school a narrow minded view of history. |
I'm a bit surprised, you know the school i was "trained".
But, surmont, there is a life outside the school.
In my humancentric mind, dump is dump, if you're from Lesotho, Nepal or Iceland or even USA.
This discussion is as old as the mankind exists.
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Paul
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 05:03 |
Originally posted by Surmount
But i don't understand many Caucasians and others believe there was an African presence in many civilizations. Why isn't it a big deal to them? If you mention that blacks were in ancient civilization it makes some people mad, and some people agree. Its not a big deal. |
I think you are right.
Personally I think Afrocentrist theories don't raise much of a historical point but raise a poignant current affairs one instead, in the reaction against them which they elicit, betraying a strong subconscious racism in some quarters.
This forum is a good example in the way people treat often outlandish and crank theories with due respect and argue against them with good dispassioned scientific evidence. However Afrocentric theories are universally met with mocking and derision stifling anykind sensible analysis and this seems to be a quite conscious and deliberate act by some members.
Edited by Paul - 18-Aug-2007 at 05:05
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Kamikaze 738
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 05:12 |
Originally posted by Constantine XI
The big deal is when that fact is acknowledged, then some idiot takes
it to the next level and tries to claim an entire civilisation is
purely black African, such as Egypt. Then they take it to even dumber
levels, trying to claim the most important people were black African
because of some flimsy link to a piece of circumstantial evidence e.g.
Septimius Severus was born in Africa, he became Roman Emperor,
therefore Romans were ruled by black Africans. The complete absence of
any form of rational logical in preference for wishful thinking is so
obvious in claims such as these.
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I totally agree with what you are saying. Sometimes people just take it too far to make one better than the other. Especially saying things that were acknowledged and then saying it was something else entirely. Its completely absurd almost like changing history about when one have such accurate detail about it. And Surmount, its not talking about blacks in history that makes people mad, its just the things that people change when its well established that makes others mad.
Edited by Kamikaze 738 - 18-Aug-2007 at 05:13
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Guests
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 05:26 |
If you spent half as much time on the net looking for great Zimbabwe or Mali or Ghana as you do for Afrocentrist positions, well the forum would be much richer and you would be a respected member rather than one who is about this close - to being chucked out. Miricle of the internet, you can do as much research in your lunch hour as would have taken two years before hand (and a uni libary).
As for having a Eurocentrist opinion. Well you are the one. who has a Eurocentric bias. Since you only seem to have heard about the Europeans history (and near east which is essentially the same thing) you try to superimpose "blackness" on to them and claim that black contributions to world history have been ignored, the latter statement is true, but like those Europeans you have never heard or bothered to find out about West and East African Civilisations.
And even the word "black" which was used by European (and Arab) slavers shows your Eurocentric bias.No Black African uses that, Ghana was the source of most of the slaves to the new world, they defined themselves as Ghanain and were selling defeated enemies not "fellow blacks" to the slavers, and incidentally they became rather rich at this trade.
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akritas
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 10:51 |
When Markus Garvey first spoke about the Greeks stealing from the Africans he was not creating a new historiography, he was creating a new mythology. The reasons are not far to seek.
It is the Afrocentric view that is, to use Bernal's term, the fabrication.But such fabrications may build confidence and may encourage marginalized groups to quit the margins and participate in the common culture. In that sense, they may be useful and even "noble."
Edited by akritas - 18-Aug-2007 at 10:53
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malizai_
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 13:54 |
I have certain amount of sympathy for the afrocentrist. His is a reaction to having suffered more ignominy, injustice and persistent discrimination than any other race on the planet. From being called everything from an ape to a subhuman, i find him surprisingly forgiving. His point is valid to a degree from time to time. He see's his fellow African, an Egyptian maybe, being called sand-nigger by his antagonists. He identifies with his derision, and accepts him as his own, a fellow African, ..and his history as his own. If history of the European continent can begin with the ancient Greeks, then why not the African continent with ancient Egyptian. Does the irish have more in common with the Greeks, than I have with the Egyptian? he asks.
He wants parity, but doesn't realize that parity is achieved by doing the same onto the others. Slim chance!.
The only recourse he has is by creating a new history for his black Africa. Not by revisionism, but by fruitful toil and labour, or, if he wants it quick, by piracy, murder, war and genocide. Then he too can build monuments to ever remind of his victories, and erect grandiose buildings to celebrate and frame his loot. Then he too can with pomp and ceremony justify his greatness. Or.., he can bring new colors to the canvas of Africa, than borrowing hurriedly from non Africans.
Edited by malizai_ - 18-Aug-2007 at 18:29
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 19:04 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Absolutely Agree!
Some are claiming Black Vikings and Black Japaneses already.... gosh!
Pinguin |
Added to the Black Irish, alongside the black rulers of the world of old, and the renegade black scientist Yakub creating the "white devil" who in turn ended up corrupting, and destroying this pre-historical black civilization... among other ludicrous items that are labeled as "history."
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