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Topic ClosedDoes Allempires.com help with university?

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Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Does Allempires.com help with university?
    Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 05:46
I'm really, really keen to go to university and really looking forward to studying ancient history there (That's what I hope to do - and do an MA or perhaps even a pHD!) but there is one thing that I've got to ask - is the methodolgy that's taught at uni very different to the sort of stuff that you do on all empires? I mean, will writing articles and stuff here help my potential in university later?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 05:53
Yes, definitely. The more practice you have exercising your thought processes, adhering firmly to factual accuracy, and the ability to summarise and extract salient pieces of information, the better you will do at college. This site is not only informative, but is mind exercsing as well, so it ain't going to do you any harm! Contrast this to spending your time on Bebo etc...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 06:09
Writing articles here is nice practice. But the thing about university is that you have to do so much referencing. If you don't reference information you provide which is not common knowledge, or an idea which is someone else's, then you are guilty of plagiarism and can be expelled from the university. You really do need to get used to referencing your information, and then from that referenced information you must weigh evidence and draw conclusions based on that evidence. You will have to rely on more than just a few sources for your information, your conclusions and generalisations must be defensible, and you must at all times try to answer the research topic you are investigating (which means going off on a tangent and fancy words just for the sake of it don't translate into marks - and may even lose you marks).

The idea is, you have a research topic and a criteria of things you need to fulfill to get full marks. Stick to fulfulling that, and you will do well. Follow the criteria, answer your research question, and everything in your essays must be related back to that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 06:43
Constantine, how do universities discern between common and uncommon knowledge? And how can you prove an idea is yours (when it is), but it appears someone else (that you did not know of) has thought of it to (the marker finds this out after you handed it in). Let me know if you don't get what I'm saying - I don't know how to express it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 07:13
I am a strong advocator of independant learning, so just because someone else has already thought of something you have independently developed in your head, it should not and usually is not punished by Universities. At undergraduate level, the fomulation of a theory will usually be broad and under-developed, whereas a plaguarised piece of information or insight will have been drafted, re-drafted, proofed and verified, and thus will stand out like a sore thumb if it appears in the middle of a muddle of an essay at the end of first semester. That is usually the test of independant thought and plaguaised thought. The flip side is that you can go without thinking for yourself at all, use other's opinions and make sure you reference them all, which for me is a disgrace. In good Uni's, those who think for themselves, even if the thought is not unique over the span of acedemia, past and current, are rewarded.

Edited by Dolphin - 14-Aug-2007 at 07:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 07:21
OK, I get it now. Thanks Dolphin
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Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 08:08

It irritates me about how many topics in ancient history have already been researched throughly - I often find that after reading two primary sources, I come to a conclusion, think that it's origional. I then read a secondary source by a modern acedemic and find that they have the same view!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 08:54
Originally posted by Knights

Constantine, how do universities discern between common and uncommon knowledge? And how can you prove an idea is yours (when it is), but it appears someone else (that you did not know of) has thought of it to (the marker finds this out after you handed it in). Let me know if you don't get what I'm saying - I don't know how to express it.


Knights, there are a number of ways to check for plagiarism. Firstly, the marker is usually an academic professional in the field in which you are studying and so they can recognise when one of "your" ideas, is actually a recrafted idea of something written in a book. In my first year at uni we were advised not to plagiarise because: "your tutor/marker is an expert in this field and if you copy something, it is likely they have already read that for themself beforehand" (1st year history unit course guide). However, this is not watertight. Sometimes universities appoint staff who cannot be expected to be expert in every aspect of the unit which you are studying. As a case in point, our Islamic history unit was taken by a man whose expertise was purely in India. So as much as he would be expected to know about Indian Muslim history and basic Islamic history, you could probably have gotten away with plagiarism if you chose to do you assignment on say, Islamic Java or Turkish Anatolia.

Secondly, they have data processing programs where they can check on the web for very specific phrases to see if you copied it from online. The program matches a phrase, and if exact matches are found you may find yourself in trouble.

Thirdly, if they find two students assignments are too similar, both students may be pulled up for colluding in doing the assignment together and so not being original in how they do their work.

The system isn't airtight, but most students don't dare try and cheat it for fear they will end up expelled from the university and end up losing their unit enrollments fees also.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 09:42
I do History at Uni, its a pretty great subject. Where I am, the lecturers love independant arguments, which I did with a Luther essay. The question I was asked was 'Luther's revolutionary reformation'. I focused on Luther's not-so-well known anti-semitism, painting him out to be a conservative and at odds with the traditional 'revolutionary' image of Luther. A lot of what I wrote was rubbish, because I didn't have a lot of time to do it, but I used very few external references and added in my own ideas.
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Aster Thrax Eupator View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 10:06
...So all empires teaches you not to do that (no offense)?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 10:10
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

...So all empires teaches you not to do that (no offense)?
 
I barely ever talk history here, so don;t know what your getting at. I'm here to burn time whilst at work...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 10:57
I prefer talking about phil or literary or sport or music or humour than history, but I don't like most other forums. This one is just right, not too active where you cant keep up, and not too dormant where you have to reply to yourself to keep active..But the odd Irish history topic usually stirs me into some history speak!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 12:24
Well, history overlaps with other topics, doesn't it, so other boards about other topics are needed on a history forum.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 13:43

Aster,

In a three year couse like the one you'll do in the UK, it goes something like, first year, basics, second year technical stuff, third year, research work etc. So the standard at uni differs depending which year and what type of subject you are in.
 
For instance for me (I was a law major) in subjects like Trusts or Property, a lot of what we did was regurgitate what we had learnt, while in Jurisprudence, the emphasis was on our own interpretation. This is not to say, that you will not be rewarded for original thinking in technical course, or that you can be safely unfamiliar with the fundamentals in analytical on es, but you get the idea.
 
You'll learn how to write papers as you progress, in the first year don't be worried if you get low marks, the diff between school and uni is a big one and you have to get used to it. As for plagerisation, well you need to reference well. And don 't worry. Nobody expects an undergrad to think like a 30 year tenure Prof. Your  tutors will know when it is something you came on to your own, and when its something that was copied.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 19:16
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

I'm really, really keen to go to university and really looking forward to studying ancient history there (That's what I hope to do - and do an MA or perhaps even a pHD!) but there is one thing that I've got to ask - is the methodolgy that's taught at uni very different to the sort of stuff that you do on all empires? I mean, will writing articles and stuff here help my potential in university later?
 
I want to be encouraging about your drive to study history and the Classics at the university level.  At the same time, however, I must be honest with you about some things pertaining to studying them at such a high level.
 
If you do not get started on the philological training early you will have a rough road ahead of you studying and doing research in the classics and/or medieval history.  I have read some of your "articles" that you have posted in the Mediterranean forum.  While they might be good summaries of the sources you mentioned, that is, you condensed what they said and perhaps put a unique spin on it, I am not sure it can be construed as entirely new research.  It might be more of a Bibliographic Essay.  In original research, reading the primary sources in their original languages come into play.  Definitely at the MA and PhD levels you must be able to read the sources in the original (with Classics it is Greek and Latin), as well as the present scholarship on the subject (whether it be in English, German, French, Italian), and develop an original and unique position on the material as well as show you have a grasp on the modern scholarship.  It is a difficult task to accomplish (marrying original research with a grasp on modern historiography) and takes years to hone into a skill.
 
What level are you at presently?  If you are in high school, I would suggest you start taking Latin immediately and Greek if it is offered.  Take on a dual major as an undergraduate in Classics and History.  Continue to take as many Latin/Greek language courses as possible to hone your philological skills.  In the summers, or where you can fit it into your schedule, take courses where you can gain a reading knowledge of modern European languages - French, German, Italian mainly.  I was given this advice early on and it has helped me tremendously in my career as a student of Byzantine history.  Conversely, I can tell you that I have seen many cases in graduate school where it became a rude awakening for students how much they needed the languages.  So they got started on them late and became overwhelmed with taking intro language classes and advanced researc seminars for which they did not have the proper tools.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 20:07
I would have to second what Byzantine Emperor. I did my undergrad work in Communications with a minor in History. The good thing about Communications was that I didn't need to take any language classes. Upon graduating I decided to shift gears and go to grad school, only problem was that I had absolutely no foreign languages, so I took the year off and did two years of latin and a year of french in that span. Some of my classmates in grad school did not do this and are in the unfortunate position of having to take time consuming language classes in addition to their graduate coursework and other responsibilities. So like my friend Byzantine Emperor said take as much Latin as possible as soon as possible if you wish to attend grad school.

In certain areas while there appears to be nothing really that new to say there in fact actually is. It's not always the position you take but how you examine and compile the information at hand. An example of such would be an examination of Crime and Punishment that focuses on Punishment rather than crime and categorizes punishments not by crimes but rather crimes by their punishment. So in theory while you might be saying something that has been said, a different way of examining what has already been dealt with sometimes does a great deal to further the discussion of a historical period.

In regards to your original question, AE helps a little with practicing your writing skills. Generally it's a good idea to get into the habit citing in everything you write that is academic in nature no matter where it is being written. It strengthens the argument to have cites, again no matter where the argument is being published (being read by anybody).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 22:26
Yes, writing articles for the AE magazine will help you improve your skills. If you want, you can even write an article and ask for us to review it as they would do it in university. I am sure that many of us would help you by pointing out where you missed a reference or where you made a statement that is not clear.

Better to go through that experience with a friendly crowd where it doesn't really mean anything than having to learn about this through poor grades.

Studying Latin will be a great help for you. Not only will you learn a language used for a long period of time, you will also gain the experience of learning such a language, making the learning of other languages with similar features a lot easier.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 22:36
To build on what Hugoestr said, Latin will also help your understanding of English grammar. My grasp of English greatly improved when I took up Latin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 09:30
If you want to help your potential at University, writing articles on Allempires is not the best help. It will help you improve your knowledge on certain areas of History and may give you some focus for topics you want to study in the future, but it might not give you a firm theoretical background that will be truly helpful at university.

If you want my advice, the best thing to do is ask the many people here who are at university or already have their degrees to advise you on methodology books and history books that will be helpful for your learning. I suggest that you start with some fairly basic books that help you understand the current trends in Ancient History and help you understand different ways in which to look at History. You are probably already reading lots of History books, or should be, so writing reviews of them would certainly be useful too. Try to read books by academics, to give you an idea of what sort of level of reading will be required.

This sort of thing will give you an advantage. The more you do of this sort of thing, the better prepared you will be when you get to university.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 14:42
advise you on methodology books and history books that will be helpful for your learning
 
Well then - advise me!
 
I might not make it for postgrad level, Byzantine Emperor - but I really want to contribute something to the pool of knowledge about my favourite subject as a postgrad. I might not make it, but I'm so determined to do it, that I think I could if I really stuck at it. As for the language skills, I didn't do Latin GCSE, so I can't do Latin A-level. The languages area is the area where I get a little stuck but I'm picking up little scraps from my reading.
 
...But do you think that, based on how I'm doing with my articles at the moment, I could do okay in uni?
 
If there is one area where I don't have any problems, it's reading and interpreting from sources. I can read without any exhaustion and can read pretty much anything


Edited by Aster Thrax Eupator - 15-Aug-2007 at 14:44
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