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Who were Mughals

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who were Mughals
    Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 13:32

Who were Mughal. Their Culture, names, and architecture seems be Persian. The Mughal name sounds like Mongol but in the drawings they don't look Asian. Were they Persian, Turkish, Mongolian, or Persian influenced Turk/Mongols.



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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 01:34
Turk-mongol herdeity, mostly Turk, culturally very influenced by Iran especially in the reign of Akbar, and using many foriegn employees from all over the place.
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  Quote Berosus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 06:11
You will also find the name spelled Mogul in many books.  If I remember correctly, Babur, the first Mogul emperor, had a father who was a great-great-grandson of Timur, and his mother was a 12th-generation descendant of Genghis Khan.
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 13:59

Kings and rulers in the drawings from that period don't look anything Mongolian. They look more like what people in today Iran and Turkey look like. If they were Mongolian they must been very mixed




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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 21:39
I believe Berosus is right, they were of Mongol desendent but many generations after, and I believe that the Mongol Kings that ruled the Iranian area took Iranian women as there wifes and after many generations later that is why they don't look like Mongols, but I may be wrong
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 20:29

The Mughal or Mogul or Moghul or (there are a number of alternate spellings) eventually ruled much of south Asia. Beginning around 1500, the ancestors of the Mogul rulers came out of what is today called Afghanistan.  Babur, founder of the Mogul dynasty, crossed the Hindu Kush in 1526 leading a Muslim army which quickly conquered the Delhi Sultanate (according to some sources - Babur lead twelve thousand horsemen against Delhi's army of a hundred thousand.)

The Mogul's ruled from 1526 through 1857 - their empire at its height reached across India from Baluchistan to Bengal and from the Himilayas to the Deccan, up through the Punjab and Kashmir and included areas as far away as Kabul and Kandahar.

Babur claimed - without any documentation or family tree - to be a direct descendant of Timur and Genghis.  His conquests were consolidated by his son Humayun and especially by his grandson Akbar (r. 1556 - 1605).  Akbar (also called The Great) - was followed by a succession of strong rulers - but a group whose trademark was parricide and fratricide.  His son Jahangir (r. 1605 - 1627) fought a civil war with his sons for his throne and was supplanted by his third son Khurram - who took the name Shah Jahan.  Shah Jahan had disposed of all of his close relatives in order to get to the throne, ruled from 1628 - 1658 and was in turn imprisoned and replaced by his third son Aurangzeb following another civil war in which Aurangzeb killed off all of his rivals to the throne.  The pattern of murder and intrigue followed the dynasty until 1857 when they finally surrendered to the British.

There is a strong Persian influence in the entire Mogul culture.  Their art, literature, music, all of their culture borrowed heavily from the Persian.  Both Jahangir and Sha Jahan married Persian princesses, and many Mogul nobles followed this fashion.

The Moguls most lasting - and certainly most famous monument is the Taj Mahal - built as a funerary monument and tomb for himself and his beloved late wife Mumtaz Mahal, the mother of Aurangzeb.   A testament to the depth of antipathy that ran between father and son - when Jahan was imprisoned by his son - his confinement allowed him only a limited view out over the Jumna river - a view that included his wife's tomb and the place where he would in turn be interred.

A good, well researched and well written study of the empire at its height is Waldemar's Hansen's "The Peacock Throne".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogul_Empire

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/mogul/

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0834335.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Mogul-Empire

 

 

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  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 02:00
Humayan also temporarily lost the conquests of his father and was for a time exiled from India by an Indian prince named Sher Shah.  He returned a couple of years later and restored rule.

Another interesting fact is that Shah Jahan (the ruler who commissioned the building of the Taj Mahal) spent the last 10 years of his life in prison after Aurangzeb took over the throne.   From the place where he was being kept, he was able to see the Taj Mahal and this reportedly brought him some solace.  When Aurangzeb heard about this, he has his father's eyes gouged out.

Finally, after Aurangzeb's death in 1707, the empire rapidly disintegrated until by the middle of the 18th century it only comprised of the plains around Delhi.  By the time the last emperor was deposed by the British in the wake of the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857-58, the Mogul emperor was largely a figurehead...
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 16:02

Hi Jazz -

Do you have a source for the story that Shah Jahan was blinded by his son?

I have run into the story often but cannot find a source - was it Bernier, Manucci or one of the other Europeans who reported it - or was it perhaps in one of the court chronicles?

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  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 15:09
Originally posted by vagabond

Hi Jazz -

Do you have a source for the story that Shah Jahan was blinded by his son?

I have run into the story often but cannot find a source - was it Bernier, Manucci or one of the other Europeans who reported it - or was it perhaps in one of the court chronicles?


Hey Vagabond.

Honestly, not off hand.  I've read and heard that story so long ago that I can't honestly remember where I first heard/read of the story.  But I do recall reading about it several times.  On a trip to Dehli about 17 years ago we visited the Red Fort, which is where Shah Jahan was imprisoned and it is within sight of the Taj Mahal.  Someone there pointed out how there were small mirrors on every wall, so that from whereever you stand, you will see the Taj Mahal.

Sorry I can't help you other than that.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 07:41
Aurangzeb was also against the building of the Taj Mahal, That is why he was so angry with the father looking at it for solace. He even treated his learned brother similarly.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 11:36
Originally posted by Miller

Kings and rulers in the drawings from that period don't look anything Mongolian. They look more like what people in today Iran and Turkey look like. If they were Mongolian they must been very mixed

 
U r right to be confused, the ruling Mughal dynasty married to consolidate power and strengthen alliances. Therefore Although Aurangzeb was turk by patrilinial decent, he probably had more indian blood. Babar took as wife the beautiful daughter of the Yousafzai chief.( pushtun chief correlating to present day NWFP in pakistan)
 
Jjust like european royalty.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 12:15
The correct spelling and indeed, pronunciation is Moghul.  the gh represents ghaf, a sound that does not exist in English so it is substituted with g, I think this is also the case in Urdu, where they have many many Persian words, they substitute KH with K too.  
 
Moghul is also the Persian word for Mongol. 
 
As far as appearance goes, the same is applicable to the Ottomans, they too over the years married local women and thus more and more took on a local look.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 15:35
The term Mughal is a Western misnomer.
 
Babur was a Turk as he clearly state's in his autobiography which we wrote in his native "Turki".
 
He wasn't a Mongol, never linked himself to Mongols, didn't speak Mongolian and never identified himself as one.
 
Babue, wrote in Turki, so did his sons Humayun and Kamran write poetry in Turkish. However, by the time of Akbar's reign the percentage of Turkish chieftains in the ruling elite had been reduced to one-fourth. It was a conscious political decision, as Turks and especially Mongols, nomad by life style, were more independent by nature and believed in equality and freedom. The Turanian/Mongolian concept of rulership is vested in the family and not in an individual. Humayun and Akbar had great trouble in subduing and disciplining their Turanian/Mongol origin nobles. Preference was given to Persians, Afghans & converts.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 16:15
it is amazing to see how little of Mughal influnce is left in India today
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  Quote Tipu Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 21:20
He even treated his learned brother similarly.

you mean the pevert dara.that chap was a drunkard and women all the time.lol

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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 05:03
Yes, the scholar Dara, unfortunately for him Aurangjeb was an illeterate person & hence could not appreciate learning.
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  Quote Tipu Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 14:18
well vivek you are very good in presenting wrong facts.
dara was a all time drinker and a womaniser(thats why you love him) while aurangzeb was a very religious muslim(thats why you hate him)who banned wine and dancing and singing in his court and aurangzeb was a master scholar once while his teacher was praising the moughals he stopped him and told him it would be beeter for him if he told them about the rising british rule,about the european powers and give them more information about various kingdoms in the world.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 01:50
Very predictable answer Tipu, Now I am trying to imagine what would be your reply if I tell you the facts about Zakir Naik.

Edited by Vivek Sharma - 27-Oct-2006 at 01:51
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 03:02
 
Originally posted by malizai_

 
Originally posted by Miller

Kings and rulers in the drawings from that period don't look anything Mongolian. They look more like what people in today Iran and Turkey look like. If they were Mongolian they must been very mixed

 
U r right to be confused, the ruling Mughal dynasty married to consolidate power and strengthen alliances. Therefore Although Aurangzeb was turk by patrilinial decent, he probably had more indian blood. Babar took as wife the beautiful daughter of the Yousafzai chief.( pushtun chief correlating to present day NWFP in pakistan)
 
just like european royalty.

 
 
Hi All,
 
Moghals were actually from Turky but they were definitely related to Gengis Khan and Timur (I dont know how, But they claimed it in their literature).
 
Their clan name Moghal (persian for Mongols) also suggets that they might had been from Mongol originally, who later setteled in turky, taking the turkish language and culture and finally managed to occupy the indian subcontinent in around 1500 AD.
 
Their chronology according to their own books (written in turky language):
 
  • Babur Shah (1483 - 1530) or Babur
  • Nasireddin Muhammed Humayun Shah (1530 - 1540) or Humayun
  • Ekber Mirza Shah (1556 - 1605) or Akbar
  • Cihangir Shah (1605 - 1627) or Jenhageer
  • Shah-i Cihan I (1627 - 1658) or Shahjehan
  • Alemgir Shah I (1658 - 1707) or Aurangjeb
  • Bahadir Shah I (1707 - 1712) or Bahadur Shah
  • Cihahgir Shah (1712 - 1713) Jenhageer-2
  • Ferruh - Siyer Shah (1713 - 1719) or farrukSiyar
  • Refiudderecat Shah (1719)
  • Shah-i Cihan II (1719)
  • Muhammed Shah (1719 - 1748)
  • Ahmet Shah (1748 - 1754)
  • Alemgir Shah II (1754 - 1759)
  • Shah-I Alem (1759 - 1806)
  • Ekber Shah (1806 - 1837)
  • Bahadir Shah II (1837 - 1858) Last ruler Bahadur Shah Zafar

Regards

Ashok Harsana 


Edited by ashokharsana - 27-Oct-2006 at 03:05
The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 03:20
Originally posted by vagabond

Babur, founder of the Mogul dynasty, crossed the Hindu Kush in 1526 leading a Muslim army which quickly conquered the Delhi Sultanate (according to some sources - Babur lead twelve thousand horsemen against Delhi's army of a hundred thousand.)

 
 
Dont you thinks its not logical...An army of 12000 defeating a trained and established army of 100,000.
 
Vagabond, Babur was a very sharp minded person.
Before his final battle with Lodhi Army he impressed the local public (from Kabul to Punjab) by following their local traditions and helping the poor.
 
This is true that Babur started approching to India with an army of 12000 horsemen but this number actually increased as Babur advanced, as members of the local population joined the invading army.
 
When he faced the Lodhi Army, his army size was more than 80,000.
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana
 
 


Edited by ashokharsana - 27-Oct-2006 at 03:21
The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars
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