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The hepthalites & huns

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  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The hepthalites & huns
    Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 06:49
Aryans came from Iran, Gujjars came from Iran, Jatts came from Iran, Rajputs came from Iran, Then who was staying  in India when they came?

There is this ongoing fight amongst Gujjars, Rajputs, Jatts in India.  Everybody wants to claim to come from somewhere & claims themselves as the rulers of the country, the heroes, etc...People always find excuses to fight.


Edited by SuN. - 30-Oct-2007 at 06:51
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 06:40
Well the English basically came from the East, or South East. The North is the Himalayas, quite hard to attack from there, and the Burmese clearly just aren't trying hard enough.
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 06:16

Great,

Quite interesting to see that historians have found what sanskrit epics had been saying since last 1500 years.
 
Anyways,
 
Now we know that White Huns:
 
1. Were hepthalites
2. Were Iranian by origin
3. Were somewhere related to Actual Huns
 
But:
There relation with Gok Turks, Avars, tokharians and finally with Yuhechis is still not clear.. can anyone helo more in this regard.
 
 
 
Please Note here: Iran or persia was known as "Saka Island" or "Aryan country" in ancient indian literature. Even if we dont discuss the Aryan invasion theory, still we have to belive that Aryans came from Iran only.
 
So all invasions to India since long back started from Iran.. Aryans, Messagatea, Khazars, Yuhechees, Gujjars, Sakas, Huns..all came from the same area........
 
Why did Indian Subcontinent not face any invasion from its north or east or south ??????? Any solutions ???
 
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2007 at 09:50
What kind of deduction is that kamran? The topic is about Hepthatlites. Look up any history link on the Gok Toruk's and you will find that the name either means, 'Sky, Blue or Celestial Turk'. East is not in there. 'Mongol lands' is another brilliantly mistaken deduction by you also.
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  Quote kamran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2007 at 03:17
So Gok Turk means East Turk!!
 
Apt term for an empire towards much east on the Mongol lands.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2007 at 10:16
The most recent research on the Hepthalites is now leaning towards them being Iranians with Turkic/Hunnic affinities because of them being subjects of the Avars.  There is lots of historical connections made between the Hephtalites and the Ghalji Pashtuns (an Iranic tribe who were related to the Khalaj Turks) and the Rajput Indians.
 
In Afghanistan they recently found some ancient Buddhist Scrolls written in Kharosti script.  Here is a quote on a websited dedicated on research of the Hephtalites:
 
"

On May 24, 2007 I was privileged to attend a talk by Professor Paul Harrison of Stanford University who is involved in the study of ancient manuscripts of Afghanistan. He discussed a copper scroll which has just recently been translated and has only been published within the past month. This scroll, dated 492-493 AD is from the Hephthalite period, reveals that they were patrons of Buddhism and that their names were Iranian. The scroll mentions about a dozen names, including that of their king. So it appears that the long mystery has at last been solved and the Iranian origins of the Hephthalites has been confirmed, much as Enoki thought. "

 
 
Professor Enoki is another Hephtalite researcher from Japan and he also claims they were ethnically Iranians but with Turkic/Hunnic affinities, much like the Tocharians.
 
I have also read that some of their practices/mannerisms were similar to the Massagatae Saka.
 


Edited by Afghanan - 16-Sep-2007 at 10:36
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  Quote TheMysticNomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2007 at 05:30
TSZ-
 
Thanks for that fascinating bit of info.  I also believe in the Hua/Uar/Avar connection, and I'm sure it would have been the Avars who introduced the Indian water buffalo to the Carpathian basin.  Still, it's a wonder that they were able to get those buffalo across the Central Asian desert alive.
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  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 06:50
The (somewhere above) menioned huas are probably known in the hungarian history-writing as uars. Some of the hung. historists 're thinking that they made one of the groups of the european avars. It is interesting that one of the old animal-races of Hungary was brought into the Carpathian basin by the avars: the indian water-buffalo. How? I don't know:-)
 
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  Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 04:04
Hephtalit, or Eftalit name comes from the fisrt king of White Huns, named Eftal. Now, it is not known whether ethnical background of him was Hunnic or Indian.
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  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 19:33
Ah.  Kind of like when you had the Gauls and the Britons being referred to as a Celtic people, even though there were significant differences between the two.  A common heritage, such as being nomadic horse archers in the case of the steppes, might give other peoples justification to call two different groups of the same cultural backgound by the same name.
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  Quote TheMysticNomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 05:42

Basically, the Hephthalites were originally known as the Hua.  The Hua were a nomadic people of northwest China who were similar to the earlier Hsiung-Nu.  Throughout the 5th Century, they succeeded to the Hun heritage of the steppes in a campaign through central Eurasia, from the Tian Shan to the Carpathians.  They ended up in Bactria before eventually establishing themselves in northwest India in the early 600's.  The name "Hephthalite" comes from one of their ruling families.  They were called "Huna" by the Indians and Roman writer Procopius referred to them as the "White Huns."  

We can't really say that they were exactly the same people as Attila's Huns (indications are they were not), but we know for sure that the people of the time knew them as Huns.  It seems that the term "Hun" referred to steppe nomads in general rather than a specific ethnic group.

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  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 16:35
I'm kind of curious myself for what makes historians identify the Hepthalites and the Huns as being the same people.  Were there accounts in Indian, Sassanid Iranian and Roman literature which indicated this?  Has there been any archaeological discovery linking the two?
 
What I do know so far is that there was a period during the 4th and 5th Centuries AD (CE) where pressure was exerted on the Germanic tribes from the east and that the migrations of steppe nomads took place during this time.  Accounts point to the Huns becoming known to the Romans after they raided minor kingdoms along the north shores of the Black Sea late in the 4th Century (370 AD/CE), and it would be decades later that Attila was burning his path through the Roman empire.  And then they disappeared following Attila's death.
 
What I've read about the Hepthalites is that they obliterated the Kushans around the same time and were known to the Indians and the Sassanid Empire.  There appears to have been no lasting presence there either, as was the case with all of the steppe nomads whenever they moved into settled territories.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 16:47
black is north. european Huns were called like that. Red is south. west and east are white and blue but don't know which is what. and those colours have absolutely nothing to do with hair or skin colour or anything related to complexions.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 10:45
About the direction thing, If my memory serves me correctly I think blue is for east. Red is for west. Black and white for north and south. Not sure which one of the latter though.

Edited by Seko - 09-Aug-2007 at 10:45
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2007 at 23:43
 or do you think the white Huns had white hairs
 
Yess they were called White hunas because they were fair skinned as compared to black huns who raided europe. In sanskrit also they were called Shvet Huns (Shvet meaning white).
 
BTW what the white huns had to take from WEST dirtection ?
and How the Red Huns related to SOUTH ?
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2007 at 23:41

EDITED



Edited by ashokharsana - 08-Aug-2007 at 23:44
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 14:19
Originally posted by ashokharsana

 
Red huns were called so because of their hair color.
 


of course not. the colours in the Steppe culture have a meaning of directions as ArmenianSurvival said, north, south, west and east = black, red, white and blue. or do you think the white Huns had white hairs?
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  Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 08:53
thanks for the information. So it was Afrasiab who fought from our side against persians huh?
 
 
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 05:11

The southern or "Red" Kidarite vassals to the Kushans in NWFP, became better known as Red Huns from 360 AD after Kidara II led a Bactrian portion of Hunni to overthrow the Kushans in India. At this time Kidarite Hunni (Kidarites) successfully controlled the length of the Oxus from the Hindu Kush all the way to the Aral Sea.

Kidara I fl. c. 320 CE
Kungas 330's ?
Varhran I fl. c. 340
Grumbat c. 358-c. 380
Kidara (II ?) fl. c. 360
Brahmi Buddhatala fl. c. 370
unknown fl. 388/400
Varhran (II) fl. c. 425
Goboziko fl. c. 450
Salanavira mid 400's
Vinayaditya late 400's
Kandik early 500's

Kidara's southern Xionites were the first "Hunas" to bother India. Indian records note that the Hūna had established themselves in Afghanistan and NWFP in present day Pakistan by the first half of the fifth century, and the Gupta emperor Skandagupta had repelled a Hūna invasion in 455.

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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 05:09
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Kerimoglu

Is there are a red one as well?

 
Man our ancestors were very colorful though
i think those colors did meand something else, directions maybe?
 
Red huns were called so because of their hair color.
 
 
The RED HUNS or Kidarite (Chinese: Ki-To-Lo) dynasty of the "Ki" clan led the Xionites and came from the proto-Mongolic Uar about whom it has been said that their legendary ancestor was Afrasiabus.
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