Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Indian Caste System
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
jayeshks View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 281 		  Quote jayeshks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indian Caste System
    Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 22:41
Originally posted by M. Nachiappan

"clanishless" is linked with "cleanliness" or not, status allows or prohibits, as long as such attitudes are exhibited or showbn by one group against another, such "caste" existence cannot be denied.
 
The issue is not at all diverted - When was the last time that Mr. Williams had a drink at the local pub with Lord Spencer? Or had tea with Prince Phillip? and such other questions have to be answered.

There is a significant difference between the caste system (and its most astringent interpretations) and the other hierarchies you're alluding to. For two reasons: Caste interactions are proscribed much more explicitly than just social norms of behaviour between different classes and caste disctinctions are much more specific and baroque than any other systems of social stratification.
Mr. Williams may well be excluded from marrying into Lord Spencer's family or being part of his croquet club or whatever else but Mr. William's wife can still be a cook in Lord Spencer's house.  A shudra cannot prepare a meal for vaishya. 

Similarly a nobleman might not allow his daughter to wed a baker's son but a baker and a goldsmith would be at the same social level and could intermarry.  In the caste system, not only can the baker not marry a goldsmith, the goldsmith can't even marry a silversmith or a coppersmith because they'd be polluting a different caste, or in the worst case, the baker can only marry into a baker sub-caste who bakes exactly the same kind of breadLOL
 
Sure elitism is inherent in all cultures but there are some peculiarities of the caste system which can't be generalized like that.


Edited by jayeshks - 20-Aug-2007 at 22:42
Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly
Back to Top
kshtriya-Mer View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 52 		  Quote kshtriya-Mer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 22:16
Originally posted by dubai

seriosuly indians need to get over this cast system thing. we live in the 21th century. i have noticed in north india this practice is still really strong. south india has mostly abolished it thats why its advancing so much. from an outsider point of view i can never tell a difference between casts, all indians preety much look same to me
 
lolzz, are u blind? look at a north indian compared to a south indian.
 
also man for its time it was needed may not be good now but for a new sociaty back in the days it was helpful.
 
and thr is a definate link between the 3 vedic casts and platos 3 classes of men i think he drew inspiration frm the vedic cast system.
 
so did hitler but in a very negativ way :P lolzzz
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2007 at 23:29
Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer

Originally posted by dubai

seriosuly indians need to get over this cast system thing. we live in the 21th century. i have noticed in north india this practice is still really strong. south india has mostly abolished it thats why its advancing so much. from an outsider point of view i can never tell a difference between casts, all indians preety much look same to me
 
lolzz, are u blind? look at a north indian compared to a south indian.
 
also man for its time it was needed may not be good now but for a new sociaty back in the days it was helpful.
 
and thr is a definate link between the 3 vedic casts and platos 3 classes of men i think he drew inspiration frm the vedic cast system.
 
so did hitler but in a very negativ way :P lolzzz
kshtriya-Mer are you admitting caste is (or was)a colour thing ?

on what proof or basis do you think that Plato drew from the Vedic system?







Edited by Leonidas - 31-Aug-2007 at 23:30
Back to Top
kshtriya-Mer View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 52 		  Quote kshtriya-Mer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 21:41

in the republic when he talks about the 3 classes of men it sounds very like the 3 vedic twice born varnas.

the one of the teacher, leader, worker

as for the couler thing i rely do not knww but it is tru the very lowest casts are very dark skinned. but some is also the same a for a few high cast people.

Also an other thing is the cast system is severely misunderstood along with many other aspects of Hinduism I have only come into conciseness of this after looking deep into the religion and searching for the truth.

 

I have found out that even a shudra (lowest cast) could do the same job as a Brahman (highest cast) and have the exact same respect. But in order for this to happen the sudra would have to show the qualities of a Brahman.

 

One that is Brahmana, when he becomes wicked in conduct and observes no distinction in respect of food, falls away from the status of a Brahmanhood and becomes a Sudra.

Even a Sudra that has purified his soul by pure deeds and that has subjugated all his senses, deserves to be waited upon and served with reverence as a Brahmana.. This has been said by the Self-born Brahman (supream god in Hinduism everything is him, everything comes from him and everything goes back to him) Himself. When a pious nature and pious deeds are noticeable in even a Sudra, he should be held superior to a person of the three regenerate classes. Neither birth, nor the purificatory rites, nor learning, nor offspring, can be regarded as grounds for conferring upon one the regenerate status. Verily conduct is the only ground

so although someone might have been born a certain cast through their efforts it was possible for them to move up. This was the idea of the vidic texts but later this system got rigged and locked it became very difficult for any mobility. The problem in my view is more of a social one rather then religious one.

 

As I read more I am beginning to find out that Hinduisms biggest enemies are Hindus them selves.

 

Regards

 

Mer

 
Back to Top
kshtriya-Mer View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 52 		  Quote kshtriya-Mer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 21:44

the above writing in blue was taken

From the Mahabharata
Anusasana Parva, Section CXLIII
Translated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2007 at 12:04
Kshatriya-Mer is absolutely right.
 
When it is said that the Kaliyug has only two varnas, Brahman and Shudra, it does does not mean that Kshatriyas and Vaishyas do not exist. What it means is that by one's virtue or ill-doing, he/she will attain the status, good or bad. A Brahman involved in ill-doings should be treated as Shudra. Whereas, a Shudra who is pious should be treated as Brahman.
 
Regards
ASK Raghuvanshi
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 11:38
Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer

in the republic when he talks about the 3 classes of men it sounds very like the 3 vedic twice born varnas.

the one of the teacher, leader, worker

its not uncommon back then in the various societies to have such distinctions or rationalizations and not just in Greece. Plato would of used the Spartans as one of his inspirations. remeber the spartan society in the other thread? sounds familiar to the Indian society but that was developed internally and as a reaction by there own situation.

You will find similar class distinction in Celtic and im guessing other ancient  European society also

Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer

as for the couler thing i rely do not knww but it is tru the very lowest casts are very dark skinned. but some is also the same a for a few high cast people.
personally is suspect it was a race thing, but this was long ago and there is no proof either way. Im sure over the ages such physical distinctions have been very much blurred anyway.

Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer

Also an other thing is the cast system is severely misunderstood along with many other aspects of Hinduism I have only come into conciseness of this after looking deep into the religion and searching for the truth.

 

I have found out that even a shudra (lowest cast) could do the same job as a Brahman (highest cast) and have the exact same respect. But in order for this to happen the sudra would have to show the qualities of a Brahman..

This very interesting, Would the shudra lose his caste of he can do the brahmins job though? The mesaage i got is that passage is that one must be measured by his deeds more so than his birth. which is very much aligned to my thoughtsSmile

Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer

so although someone might have been born a certain cast through their efforts it was possible for them to move up. This was the idea of the vidic texts but later this system got rigged and locked it became very difficult for any mobility. The problem in my view is more of a social one rather then religious one.

 

As I read more I am beginning to find out that Hinduisms biggest enemies are Hindus them selves.

Good post. The Hindu religion has changed and evolved overtime, as anything that exist within it. But your going about this in the right way, critical thought and question are also necessary for introspection. All things touched by humans can be corrupted for their own benefit. For me this is a given, my religion or traditions are not immune either.



Edited by Leonidas - 07-Sep-2007 at 11:39
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2007 at 02:58
So what is the conclusion?
 
Caste system has been there everywhere?
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.076 seconds.