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Gaya and Koguryo (goguri)

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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gaya and Koguryo (goguri)
    Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 02:13
"

Quote:
Mainland China and Taiwan share the same blood, same cultural heritage, same language, same people, same everything.

What makes you think that's so?  Who defines ethnicity?"

I urge you to learn more about Chinese people, culture, or history.

They are the same people because most population of Taiwan immigrated from China starting 2 AD. There are native people on that island that are not of Chinese origin but they account for less than 2 percent of the population.

They speak the same language because they do for a fact. The language spoken is Taiwan is Mandarin Chinese.

Taiwanese and Mandarin Chinese were all developed in Mainland China.

They are the same people because they are the same genetically as well as culturally.

I am a Chinese and the fact that they speak the same language and have the same culture is a kidergarden level kinda thing that every Chinese knows.

You are like asking me why "people from Tokyo are the same people as people from Osaka? They speak the same language, how? Who defines that?". I can't stop laughing after reading your post.

It just seems so funny to me for what you asked.

Please don't ask such questions again else I would laugh to death.

I am not attacking you so please don't accuse me of anything.

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 19:54
Let's try not to talk about Taiwan in here...
1.  It doesn't pertain to the subject
2.  It only seems to get threads closed.
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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 22:49

Ahem...I am Taiwanese and I think that I share the same origin, history, culture adn blood lines as many Chinese. Again, it is the person himself or herself that defines their own history, culture etc.

Just like how the 2 Koreas will still identify themselves as Koreans though they are in separate nation states under separate governments which are hostile towards each other.

Actually I take my word back. I think that the history is to be worked by all 3 nations: DPRK, PRC and ROK. I am sorry to have ignored North Korea in this.

I don't see why any threads about Taiwan would have to be closed. Maybe because Tobodai is overly sensitive about Taiwan. But I see no problems with it because I am Taiwanese.

And are you really in Uzbekistan?

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 18:11
Originally posted by sephodwyrm

I don't see why any threads about Taiwan would have to be closed. Maybe because Tobodai is overly sensitive about Taiwan. But I see no problems with it because I am Taiwanese.

And are you really in Uzbekistan?



1st question.  Well I don't know about that, but things just seem to work like that.  Also it still has nothing to do with Koguryo...if it does I am still to be informed on how it does...

2nd question.  No, I'm actually in the U.S....I just think it's fun to play with the little flag by my name...
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 18:52

What makes you think that's so?  Who defines ethnicity?"

I urge you to learn more about Chinese people, culture, or history.

They are the same people because most population of Taiwan immigrated from China starting 2 AD. There are native people on that island that are not of Chinese origin but they account for less than 2 percent of the population.

They speak the same language because they do for a fact. The language spoken is Taiwan is Mandarin Chinese.

Taiwanese and Mandarin Chinese were all developed in Mainland China.

They are the same people because they are the same genetically as well as culturally.

I am a Chinese and the fact that they speak the same language and have the same culture is a kidergarden level kinda thing that every Chinese knows.

You are like asking me why "people from Tokyo are the same people as people from Osaka? They speak the same language, how? Who defines that?". I can't stop laughing after reading your post.

It just seems so funny to me for what you asked.

Please don't ask such questions again else I would laugh to death.

I am not attacking you so please don't accuse me of anything.

I am more than serious what I said because It has got to do with what China is progressing into.  China has now accepted previously disclamed ethnic's history as theirs over the last few years.  For example, Genghis Khan, murderer of millions of Chinese, is now Chinese.  What sucks about this is that the issue inevitably turns into Korean history- distorting history to steal korean land.

 

Grrr..
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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 00:24

Hey demon,

    I don't think this intellectual squabbling will change whether China will take the course of aggression.  It's not like winning this debate will stop it from invading any country (I'm not saying that it'll; nobody wants that to happen.)  There's no problem in making Genghis Khan a Chinese figure as long as the Chinese consider that he's also a Mongolian figure, for the simple reason that Mongolian, whether by blood or culture, have already been thrown into the mix of a hybrid construct called "Chinese."  It's actually rather honest to say Genghis Khan a Chinese hero -- you can say, with more specification, a Mongolian Chinese hero.  If "Chinese" is just the English name for "Chong Guo Ren," the "Ren" of "Chong Yuan," then pretty much every people that have lived, ruled, and made an impact in Chong Yuan qualify as Chinese.  The point here is that we don't obliterate the obvious Mongolianess of Genghis Khan -- we cannot deprive the Mongolians of a cultural symbol.  But then we can't be unfair to those aspects of Chineseness that are Mongolian either.  I hope you understand that this, as I've demonstrated, can be understood at a moderate and nonaggressive level.  As far as I'm concerned, Korguryo is ancient Korea -- there's just no point in changing that.  But I would not deny that Koreans, like so many other cultures and peoples, have also been thrown into the mix that is Chinese hybrid culture.  These should be the focus of the Korguryo debate: it doesn't matter whether Korguryo was or wasn't ruled by Tang China (because this is irrelevant) and it doesn't matter whether this is a part of China's expansionist scheme (because if it is, refuting it won't deter China from expansion.)

Peace,

Michael

11-23-2004



Edited by MengTzu
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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 02:28

"I am more than serious what I said because It has got to do with what China is progressing into.  China has now accepted previously disclamed ethnic's history as theirs over the last few years.  For example, Genghis Khan, murderer of millions of Chinese, is now Chinese.  What sucks about this is that the issue inevitably turns into Korean history- distorting history to steal korean land."

But the Han Chinese in Taiwan are Han Chinese. They are no Mongolians but Han Chinese of the same origin, culture, language, blood. Their ancestors were part of the Chinese population who got killed by Genghis Khan.

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  Quote Korean Patriot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 07:59
Sorry demon, I didn't write it clearly again. What I meant was that there are lots of tombs in North Korea, as you know, if a South Korean goes to the North Korea, they won't be aloud to go back and stuff, so that what I meant about tombs getting closed for us. Sorry, my bad
Korean hostory is unknown to most
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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 11:47
Haiz...when will the 2 Koreas be united again?
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2004 at 13:43
Perhaps never...
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  Quote Korean Patriot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 03:53
Never.... why never? I mean its not easy, thats true, but never is such a harsh word to use in this case, lol.
Korean hostory is unknown to most
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 13:13
who knows...I guess that was a bit extremem as everytime it divides it ends up being divded, but there is always so much bloodshed involved...
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  Quote battleaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 16:07
Originally posted by coolstorm

"I am more than serious what I said because It has got to do with what China is progressing into.  China has now accepted previously disclamed ethnic's history as theirs over the last few years.  For example, Genghis Khan, murderer of millions of Chinese, is now Chinese.  What sucks about this is that the issue inevitably turns into Korean history- distorting history to steal korean land."

But the Han Chinese in Taiwan are Han Chinese. They are no Mongolians but Han Chinese of the same origin, culture, language, blood. Their ancestors were part of the Chinese population who got killed by Genghis Khan.

i agree with that. just what seems to be hypocritical is that china seems to bring up this "one blood, one language, one country" thing when it suits itself, like with taiwan, and chooses to ignore it completely when talking about tibet, eastern turkestan, inner mongolia etc., you can't have it both ways.

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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 19:48

Since Tibet, Eastern Turkestan, inner Mongolia etc isn't even independent, why would a state that shares the same blood, heritage, language etc want to be independent?

I think that's the Chinese argument. Separatism is not tolerated in the Chinese psyche.

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 20:49
Originally posted by sephodwyrm

Since Tibet, Eastern Turkestan, inner Mongolia etc isn't even independent, why would a state that shares the same blood, heritage, language etc want to be independent?

I think that's the Chinese argument. Separatism is not tolerated in the Chinese psyche.



Perhaps you can elaborate more on this.  This is perhaps what we Koreans have to most trouble understanding.  As a result of being a homogenous society and having little or no minorites this is a hard concept for us to grasp.  Thanks in advance!
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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 23:56

US is not the only melting pot in the world, and likewise, not all melting pots have the US model. China represents that pretty accurately. Starting off with only a single tribe, gradually including, absorbing and molding other ethnicities due to its more dominant of culture or war, China has invaded and been invaded by foreign ethnicities and made Chinese out of them (instead of being made foreign by the invaders).

I don't know exactly how to answer your question. But as a Chinese I am more proud that we include more people and cultures than making a single homogeneous Chinese culture. The Chinese culture simply works like a backdrop with which other subcultures add their individual colors.

But I thought that the Koreans living in Cheju are slightly different from Koreans living in like Seoul?

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 00:24
Well Jeju(Cheju) is a little different drawing influences from Korea, Mongolia, and Japan, but the rest of Korea is basically Korean and people from Jeju consider themselves the same as a Korean in say Seoul.
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  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 02:09

Originally posted by sephodwyrm

US is not the only melting pot in the world

Sigh, the propaganda that the US would want the world to believe, and you believe it.

No, the US is not a melting pot at all.



Edited by MengTzu
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 02:14
Originally posted by MengTzu

Originally posted by sephodwyrm

US is not the only melting pot in the world

Sigh, the propaganda that the US would want the world to believe, and you believe it.

No, the US is not a melting pot at all.



Eh?  Who belives this?
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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 03:15

No offense...

There is propaganda in every country at a certain level.

 

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