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Gaya and Koguryo (goguri)
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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gaya and Koguryo (goguri)
    Posted: 03-Dec-2004 at 19:26
More tensions are rising...In this case I think it's a bit ridiculous.

Taken from http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200412/kt2004120322125510160 .htm






  China Issues Postage Stamps on Koguryo Relics


By Park Song-wu
Staff Reporter

The Seoul government on Friday said that China has recently issued postage stamps featuring historic relics of Koguryo, heralding another round of disputes over the ancient Korean kingdom.

The stamps, published in two designs, each include images of tombs and murals located in Jian, Jilin Province, northeastern China.

Seoul is trying to find out Beijings true intention behind the move, an official said. ``We understand that China has recently published the stamps on Koguryo relics to celebrate their registration on the world heritage list, he said.

But diplomatic experts in Seoul said China is apparently trying to play up its current sovereignty over a portion of the ancient kingdom, set up by hunting tribes that ruled much of modern day North Korea and Chinese Manchuria from 37 B.C. to A.D. 668.

Tombs and murals of the ancient Korean kingdom in China and North Korea were added to UNESCOs list of world heritage at the same time in July.

The first round of diplomatic row between the neighboring countries ended in August when they reached a five-point ``verbal understanding on the Koguryo issue with China promising it would no longer attempt to misrepresent the Korean kingdoms history in its school textbooks.

Beijing has made efforts to lay claim to Koguryos history through a systematic campaign, behind which many experts suggest is a fear that one day the 2 million ethnic Koreans within Chinas borders, better known as ``Chosonjok,'' will support a ``greater Korea'' after reunification of the peninsula in the future.

The stamps could reignite a diplomatic feud between the two countries as the Seoul government has already set aside a budget for issuing its own commemorative stamps featuring Koguryo relics on July 1 next year, officials said.



It's talking about a sensitve matter...but come on...it's a bunch of stamps.


Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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coolstorm View Drop Down
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Posts: 1066 		  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 18:34

"when you have occupied a place for 50 years, you run all the schools, and you teach only your version of history at school, of course you are going to get quite a few people who buy into it. that is not the dispute here; the dispute is whether the entire occupation is legitimate from the start. "

The British occupied Hong Kong for 155 years. They ran all the schools, and they only taught their version of history at school. Yet, they didn't get that many people (if there were any at all) who bought into it.

No one in Hong Kong did, do consider himself/herself as a British although many of them are British by nationality.



Edited by coolstorm
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Posts: 27 		  Quote battleaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 18:24


Well, Inner Mongolia, Tibet, East Turkestan etc are within influences of Chinese sovereignty and people from those places mostly consider themselves to be Chinese as much a person in Beijing considers himself or herself Chinese. Its the same concept. Chinese is not applied on the ethnic level, but also on the nationality level. In fact, to apply it in the ethnic level you would have to say Han Chinese, Tibetan Chinese, Taiwanese Chinese (the aborigines in Taiwan) etc etc. [/QUOTE]

when you have occupied a place for 50 years, you run all the schools, and you teach only your version of history at school, of course you are going to get quite a few people who buy into it. that is not the dispute here; the dispute is whether the entire occupation is legitimate from the start.

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Posts: 27 		  Quote battleaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 18:21
Originally posted by sephodwyrm

Since Tibet, Eastern Turkestan, inner Mongolia etc isn't even independent, why would a state that shares the same blood, heritage, language etc want to be independent?

I think that's the Chinese argument. Separatism is not tolerated in the Chinese psyche.

yeah, i know that is the chinese argument, but i think it is hypocritical in a sense....you cannot have it both ways.
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Posts: 1066 		  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 15:56

One thing I learned from my experience is that it is not wise to treat a girl too well because if you do so, she will get used to it and take everything for granted.

Be an ass, and you get all the girls. Sorry, this is off topic.



Edited by coolstorm
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Posts: 359 		  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 15:50

I would like to look after children while my wife goes out to work, but my Mom told me that she would disown me if I do that...
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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Posts: 1066 		  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 15:29

"In Korea society is dominated by men.  Men go out to work while the women stay at home and watch the children.  Therefore men are seen as superior.  "

In Hong Kong, guys take orders from the girls and the girls don't do anything but shopping

 



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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 15:20
Haha actually let's put it this way.  In Korea society is dominated by men.  Men go out to work while the women stay at home and watch the children.  Therefore men are seen as superior. 

In Jeju the women go out to work and the men stay at home and watch the children.  Therefore the women are seen as superior. 
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Posts: 359 		  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 14:18
My Korean professor told me that Jeju has a slightly different culture. He said that a common conception about Jeju men is that they like to drink a lot and that the women do a lot of work for the men...(sounds pretty bad...)...
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 14:04
Hmm...I think I explained Jeju Island wrong.  What you would call aborigionese or natives of the island do not or no longer exist.  So it would be wrong to call them an ethnic minority. 
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Posts: 359 		  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 12:12
Well Jeju(Cheju) is a little different drawing influences from Korea, Mongolia, and Japan, but the rest of Korea is basically Korean and people from Jeju consider themselves the same as a Korean in say Seoul.

Well, Inner Mongolia, Tibet, East Turkestan etc are within influences of Chinese sovereignty and people from those places mostly consider themselves to be Chinese as much a person in Beijing considers himself or herself Chinese. Its the same concept. Chinese is not applied on the ethnic level, but also on the nationality level. In fact, to apply it in the ethnic level you would have to say Han Chinese, Tibetan Chinese, Taiwanese Chinese (the aborigines in Taiwan) etc etc.
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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Posts: 1066 		  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 03:15

No offense...

There is propaganda in every country at a certain level.

 
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 02:14
Originally posted by MengTzu

Originally posted by sephodwyrm

US is not the only melting pot in the world

Sigh, the propaganda that the US would want the world to believe, and you believe it.

No, the US is not a melting pot at all.



Eh?  Who belives this?
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Posts: 957 		  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 02:09

Originally posted by sephodwyrm

US is not the only melting pot in the world

Sigh, the propaganda that the US would want the world to believe, and you believe it.

No, the US is not a melting pot at all.



Edited by MengTzu
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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 00:24
Well Jeju(Cheju) is a little different drawing influences from Korea, Mongolia, and Japan, but the rest of Korea is basically Korean and people from Jeju consider themselves the same as a Korean in say Seoul.
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Posts: 359 		  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 23:56

US is not the only melting pot in the world, and likewise, not all melting pots have the US model. China represents that pretty accurately. Starting off with only a single tribe, gradually including, absorbing and molding other ethnicities due to its more dominant of culture or war, China has invaded and been invaded by foreign ethnicities and made Chinese out of them (instead of being made foreign by the invaders).

I don't know exactly how to answer your question. But as a Chinese I am more proud that we include more people and cultures than making a single homogeneous Chinese culture. The Chinese culture simply works like a backdrop with which other subcultures add their individual colors.

But I thought that the Koreans living in Cheju are slightly different from Koreans living in like Seoul?
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 20:49
Originally posted by sephodwyrm

Since Tibet, Eastern Turkestan, inner Mongolia etc isn't even independent, why would a state that shares the same blood, heritage, language etc want to be independent?

I think that's the Chinese argument. Separatism is not tolerated in the Chinese psyche.



Perhaps you can elaborate more on this.  This is perhaps what we Koreans have to most trouble understanding.  As a result of being a homogenous society and having little or no minorites this is a hard concept for us to grasp.  Thanks in advance!
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Posts: 359 		  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 19:48

Since Tibet, Eastern Turkestan, inner Mongolia etc isn't even independent, why would a state that shares the same blood, heritage, language etc want to be independent?

I think that's the Chinese argument. Separatism is not tolerated in the Chinese psyche.

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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Posts: 27 		  Quote battleaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 16:07
Originally posted by coolstorm

"I am more than serious what I said because It has got to do with what China is progressing into.  China has now accepted previously disclamed ethnic's history as theirs over the last few years.  For example, Genghis Khan, murderer of millions of Chinese, is now Chinese.  What sucks about this is that the issue inevitably turns into Korean history- distorting history to steal korean land."

But the Han Chinese in Taiwan are Han Chinese. They are no Mongolians but Han Chinese of the same origin, culture, language, blood. Their ancestors were part of the Chinese population who got killed by Genghis Khan.

i agree with that. just what seems to be hypocritical is that china seems to bring up this "one blood, one language, one country" thing when it suits itself, like with taiwan, and chooses to ignore it completely when talking about tibet, eastern turkestan, inner mongolia etc., you can't have it both ways.
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Posts: 2187 		  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2004 at 13:13
who knows...I guess that was a bit extremem as everytime it divides it ends up being divded, but there is always so much bloodshed involved...
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