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Altaic Numbers.

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    Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 15:33
Very interestng, so do you have information on the origins of the modern Turkish numbers that are not clearly of proto-Altaic origin, such as beş?
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:18
Proto – Altaic: minga, mingo, mingu
English: a large number; thousand

Japanese:

Korean:

Mongolian: minggan (thousand)

Tungus – Manchu:

Turkic: ming, bing (thousand)

Notes: Perhaps Modern Korean ‘manan’ 'forty' ('big number'?).
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:16
Proto – Altaic: chiumi
English: thousand

Proto - Japanese: ti
Old Japanese: ti
Modern Japanese: chi

Korean: chimin

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu:

Turkic: tmen (ten thousands)

Notes: Note the Turkic - Korean parallel. Japanese ‘ti’ reflects a suffixed form (chium(i)-g).

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jul-2007 at 08:18
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:15
Proto – Altaic: namo, ngamo
English: hundred

Proto - Japanese: muamua
Old Japanese: mwomwo
Modern Japanese:

Korean:

Mongolian: ja-gu-n

Tungus – Manchu: nama

Turkic: yom (1 big number or quantity 2 all)

Notes:

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jul-2007 at 08:17
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:12
Proto – Altaic: j(io)ro
English: a big number

Proto - Japanese: dərə- (ten thousand)
Old Japanese: yoru-du
Modern Japanese: yoru-zu

Proto - Korean: jərh (ten)
Middle Korean: jərh
Modern Korean: jəl

Mongolian: ye(r)-sn (nine), yeri-n (ninety)

Tungus – Manchu: jir- (a big number)

Turkic: jur (hundred)

Notes: in Korean, also ‘jərəh’ 'a big quantity, number'.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:11
Proto – Altaic: ngio
English: thirty

Proto - Japanese: mi (related to 3)
Old Japanese: myi
Modern Japanese: mi

Korean:

Mongolian: gu- (1 three 2 thirty)

Tungus – Manchu:

Turkic: o-tur

Notes: Turkic has got rid of Proto – Altaic ‘ng’ as Turkic words were not allowed to start with nasal.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:08
Proto – Altaic: k iura
English: twenty

Japanese:

Korean:

Mongolian: qori

Tungus – Manchu: xorin

Turkic: qir-q (fourty)

Notes: Old Turkic ‘tibirim’/’tibirem’ (related to 2) (modern Turkic ‘yigirimi’) was used to mean ‘twenty’.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:08
Proto – Altaic: tiobe, chiobe
English: ten


Proto - Japanese: təwə
Old Japanese: towo
Modern Japanese: to-

Korean:

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu: juba-n

Turkic:

Notes:
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:05
Proto – Altaic: k eg-
English: nine


Proto - Japanese: kəkənə-
Old Japanese: kokono-
Modern Japanese: kokono-

Korean:

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu: xegn

Turkic:

Notes:
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:03
Proto – Altaic: cha, sa
English: eight


Proto - Japanese: da
Old Japanese: ya
Modern Japanese: ya-tsu

Proto – Korean:
Middle Korean:
Modern Korean: yə-t-

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu: ja-kun, ja-p-kun

Turkic: se-kr, se-kir

Notes: one may suggest that Turkic ‘se-‘ here is due to assimilation (‘cha’ --> ‘sha’ --> ‘sa’).

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jul-2007 at 08:07
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:02
Proto – Altaic: nadi; ngadi
English: seven


Proto - Japanese: nana
Old Japanese: nana
Modern Japanese: nana

Proto – Korean: nir-kup
Middle Korean: nid-kup
Modern Korean: il-gop

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu: nada-n

Old Turkic: yet(t)i

Notes: Mongolian ‘dal-‘ '7' may suggest Proto - Altaic ‘ladi-‘ (with a development to Mongolian ‘lal-‘ and through assimilation, to ‘dal-‘.

The medial consonant in general behaves rather irregularly: one may suggest an original cluster like ‘-dd-‘ to explain the Turkic reflex.

Also, Koguryo ‘nanən’ 'seven'.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:01
Proto – Altaic: nu-, ngu-
English: six


Proto - Japanese: mu-
Old Japanese: mu-
Modern Japanese: mu-

Korean:

Proto - Mongolian: yiragu-ga (1 six 2 sixty)

Tungus – Manchu: nu-ngu-

Turkic:

Notes:
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:00
Proto – Altaic: t u
English: five


Proto - Japanese: i-tu
Old Japanese: itu
Modern Japanese: i-tsu

Proto - Korean: ta-
Middle Korean: ta-, ta-sas
Modern Korean: ta-sət (tasəs)

Mongolian: ta-bu- (1 five 2 fifty)

Tungus – Manchu: tu-n-ga

Turkic: atə, etə

Notes: In Japanese, initial ‘i-‘ is not quite clear; it is used on its own with the meaning 'fifty', and in ‘i-po’ 'five hundred' (if this is not a contraction from ‘it(u)-pə’.

The Turkic word listed is preserved only in Bulgar Turkic.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:58
Proto – Altaic: toy
English: four


Proto - Japanese: də
Old Japanese: yo
Modern Japanese: yo

Korean:

Mongolian: dr-ben, d-chin (1 four 2 fourty)

Tungus – Manchu: dgin

Turkic: trt

Notes: In Tungus – Manchu, also ‘de-ki ' (fourty). The stem is the same as Japanese.

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jul-2007 at 07:59
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:56
Proto – Altaic: ul-u, il-u
English: three

Proto – Japanese: uru-pu
Old Japanese: urufu
Modern Japanese: uru

Korean:

Mongolian:

Tungus – Manchu: il-an (three)

Turkic: ch (three); il-ng, l-ng (third)

Notes: An interesting etymon; the original meaning can be probably reconstructed as "(a group of) three objects, followed by a fourth" (especially in Japanese and Turkic).

The Turkic form represents a vowel assimilation. Old Turkic: ‘l-ng’ from Proto – Turkic: ‘l-ng’.

Turkic ‘ch’: Turkic frequently reveals a secondary labialization: ‘r-’/’l-’ from
‘ir-‘/’il-‘.

Japanese usually adds ‘pa’ (instead of Mongolian, Tungus – Manchu and Turkic ‘qa’) (‘pu’, in this case) to the Altaic vowel endings.

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jul-2007 at 07:57
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:54
Proto – Altaic: p ioke
English: two; pair; half

Proto Japanese: pəka (the other one)
Old Japanese: p(w)oka
Modern Japanese: hoka

Proto Korean: pəki- (next one)
Middle Korean: pəki-
Modern Korean: pəgim

Mongolian: (h)ekire (twins)

Tungus – Manchu:

Turkic: eki, iki

Notes:
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:54
Proto – Altaic: biuri
English: one

Proto Japanese: pitə
Old Japanese: piyto
Modern Japanese: pitu, ti, hitotsu

Proto Korean: piri (af first; begin)
Middle Korean: piri-s, piri-so
Modern Korean: pir-o-so

Mongolian: bri (each one)

Tungus – Manchu:

Turkic: bir

Notes: Also Turkmen 'pitew' which means 'one; unit'.

Edited by gok_toruk - 02-Jan-2008 at 17:09
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:53
I've tried to search for same number stems in Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Tungus - Manchu and Turkic. I had to list Proto - Japanese, Old Japanese, Proto - Korean and Middle Korean as well, since Japanes and Korean add a large number of suffixes to the original stem.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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