Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Kashmiri genetics Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 12:28 |
I have found the article I have on Kashmir.
Try looking up the various references in it to get more of the story. If it proves wrong then I stand corrected.
The language spoken in Kashmir is
distinct from any other part of India.
The speech is closer to Hebrew than any other language. Kash-ir (of Kush)
is the Kashmiri name for Kashmir and they call their
language Kashir (Hebrew for "right"). Not a single inscription could
be read on the ancient monuments of Kashmir by early archaeologists,
the ancient language had died out long ago and could not be deciphered.
Research has proved the ancient Kashmiri language and writing is not related to
the local Sanskrit but Semitic in origin.
Two ancient languages of proven Semitic origin in India,
are Brahmi and the other Kharoshthi, the mysterious alphabet used in Kashmir,
and said to be the Aramaic script. Around 500 B.C., this writing that reads
from right to left became the language for trading between East and West. The
merchants of this language traveled along ancient trade routes through Mesopotamia
and traded beyond India
as far as China.
By the time of Christ the use had declined to Semitic backwaters. It had been
overtaken by the languages of Greek then Romans who fought to control the trade
routes of the known world and tax all who moved along them.
Traditional Hindu literature like the
"Mahabharata" tell of Kashmir and describe it
as "the gardens of heaven". The notes of the Greek, Hekataios, who
lived between 549 and 486 B.C, refer to this country as the home of an ancient
race. The people wore shawls with long tassels,
woven from goat hair and wool, first mentioned in 300 B.C. then in 1100
A.D.
|
elenos
|
|
Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 15:20 |
If that article is mentioning KHarosthi, that didn't die out during the Roman times, it existed even after Mohammed (SAW) died, and was on a decline after the Muslim invasions. It died out, along with remnants of Buddhism in Central Asia around the time of the Islamic advance. Buddhist Monks with their Kharosthi inscriptions (written on birch tree bark) left in clay pots are still being uncovered in Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Western Pakistan.
Edited by Afghanan - 02-Nov-2007 at 15:21
|
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
|
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 17:57 |
I was researching an old Muslim story about Jesus and his mother having traveled to Kashmir. They even did a "Sixty Minutes" program on his supposed burial in a hosue in Siiringar, and was shown all around the world. You can still find articles about it on Google if you want to research that more. Here is one of the many thousands of articles
http://www.tombofjesus.com/core/majorplayers/the-tomb/the-tomb-p4.htm
|
elenos
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 18:21 |
I would like to mention one thing here about the jews. There are a lot of jews (practising jews) living here. In fact I know some of them. When did they come here? I asked some of them. They dont seem to know.
|
God is not great.
|
|
andrew
Earl
Joined: 31-May-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 19:32 |
Jews=Middle East
Indian=South Asian
This is why I hesitate to visit this suforum, they can take anything from Scythians and Arabs and somehow connect them to South Asia, it's become a joke really.
|
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 22:30 |
Don't blame me! I'm only pointing out a story that is all over the Internet and has hundreds of books published about it. What I'm saying is try taking a minute to look it up. Even if it's untrue the story has been around for thousands of years, but there has been no convincing evidence against.
|
elenos
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 23:00 |
If semites settled in Kashmir then you will have considerable portion of population having J1 haplogroup!
|
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 03:52 |
Here is something else I just found on Google from the 987.000 articles.
Quote "The history of the Kashmiris is shrouded in mystery as is the history
of other people in that region. Most Kashmir researchers are of the
opinion that many inhabitants of Kashmir are descendants of the Lost
Tribes who were exiled in 722 BCE. They wandered along the Silk Road
into the countries of the East, Persia and Afghanistan until they
reached the Kashmir valley and settled there.
Others say the wanderings began approximately 300 years later. The
wanderers settled in Kashmir, kept their traditions until they were
forced to convert to Islam when the spread of Islam reached the valley.
The priest Kitro in his book, the General History of the Mughal Empire,
said that the Kashmir people are the descendants of the Israelites. The
traveling Arab historian El Bironi in the 12th century wrote, "In the
past, permission to enter Kashmir was given only to Jews."
The priest Monstrat said that in the time of Vasco da Gama in the 15th
century, "all the inhabitants of this area who have been living here
since ancient times can trace their ancestry, according to their race
and customs, to the ancient Israelites. Their features, their general
physical appearance, their clothing, their ways of conducting business,
all show that they are similar to the ancient Israelites."
|
elenos
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 13:10 |
Originally posted by andrew
Jews=Middle East
Indian=South Asian
This is why I hesitate to visit this suforum, they can take anything from Scythians and Arabs and somehow connect them to South Asia, it's become a joke really. |
So you know for a fact that what Elenos is reporting is untrue? Then I'm sure you have tons of credible sources to refute this. Care to share, or is it easier to just troll?
Edited by red clay - 03-Nov-2007 at 13:10
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 13:40 |
I recently paid to get a DNA ancestry test done to find out about my deep ancestry, and now have my results. My Y-DNA test puts me in haplogroup J2a1b which is a middle eastern haplogroup prevalent amongst the Jews, northern Arabs, turks, kurds, Italians and Greeks. My results also show that I 'apparently' belong to the "Cohen" lineage, whicih is a famous Jewish family line.
If your puzzled by that then this should really throw you. The same haplo group is found in many families in the Southern US whose ancestry is mainly Native American. Melungeons [meaning "mixed race"] are an indigionous people found in W. VA., VA., N. and S. Carolina and several other southern states. The Cohen lineage is commonly found, passed on by the female side. The real kicker is, most geneticists place this appearence well before European contact[1492]
My grandmother was Melungeon. I haven't had a modern screening done but my sisters and a niece have. They all have this haplo group, as well as others pointing to anatolian influence as well.
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 14:19 |
In Kashmir there is a tribe in the mongoloid areas which looks completely different from the mongoloid people, the muslim kashmiris, the Hindu kashmiris & the rest of the Indians too. Their language is also different. They ae said to have very sharp features, very narrow noses, average heights (5 ft. something). It is said that Hitler had sent some women to have sex with men from this tribe & even now many Germans visit this tribe & try to have sex with their men, even willing to pay them big money but the tribe has banned it's men from having sex with outsiders.
There is also a history / Nat Geo channel documentry on them.
Various theories have been put forward to explain their presence. Would anybody be able to throw more light on this tribe?
|
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 22:28 |
I don't know if I can throw more light on such a contention, but I was thinking why is it so strange for some to hear about some tribes leaving the Middle East and going north? It seems logical enough to me. History is full of examples of northern tribes going south and adding to the gene pool. No matter where people are on earth love (or sex) will find a way to bring them together, it's only natural after all.
|
elenos
|
|
Windemere
Samurai
Joined: 09-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 00:12 |
As far as I know the Y-chromosome is passed on almost unchanged from father to son down through the generations. All human males have an XY chromosome pattern, all females have XX (except in the case of congenital syndromes). Unlike the rest of the DNA the Y-chromosome DNA doesn't combine with the X-chromosome DNA, so paternal ancestry can be traced down through the generations. (The same can be done with maternal ancestry by using mitochondrial DNA which also doesn't combine with the rest of the DNA but is passed down almost unchanged from a mother to all of her children. All children, males and females, receive it, but only the females pass it on, as its contained in the ova, the female sex cell). Fathers pass their Y-chromosome on only to their sons. It would take only one male ancestor possessing the Y-chromosome, possibly many generations in the past, to bring this Y-chromosome haplogroup into a man's genetic makeup. All later ancestors could be from the more prevalent ethnic group of the locality, and the individual's appearance could be identical to that of the prevalent ethnic group, but their Y-chromosome type would still be that of the long-ago male ancestor who brought it into the paternal line.
|
Windemere
|
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous
Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 14:29 |
Originally posted by SuN.
In Kashmir there is a tribe in the mongoloid areas which looks completely different from the mongoloid people, the muslim kashmiris, the Hindu kashmiris & the rest of the Indians too. Their language is also different. They ae said to have very sharp features, very narrow noses, average heights (5 ft. something). It is said that Hitler had sent some women to have sex with men from this tribe & even now many Germans visit this tribe & try to have sex with their men, even willing to pay them big money but the tribe has banned it's men from having sex with outsiders.
There is also a history / Nat Geo channel documentry on them.
Various theories have been put forward to explain their presence. Would anybody be able to throw more light on this tribe?
|
Minaro or Drogpa.
|
|
elenos
Chieftain
Joined: 13-Jun-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1457
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 21:53 |
Thanks for the tip on the origins of the baffling story. I did a search and came up with an article from Time
magazine.
On a chilly September night in 1982, three men approached a
police checkpoint at the village of Lotsum,
along the tense cease-fire line between India
and Pakistan in
the Himalayas. The travelers looked like ordinary
Kashmiri peasants, and the guards let them pass. But one of them was not what
he seemed. French Anthropologist Michel Peissel had disguised himself in garb
like that of his two local guides, staining his face with walnut dye in order
to enter a region long forbidden to foreigners: the Dansar Plain of Little
Tibet, the no mans land of a legendary tribe known as the Minaro.
Unlike their neighbors in the mountains of Kashmir,
the Minaro have curiously light complexions and sharp, high-cheeked faces
almost European in character. The entire tribe consists of only about 800
people, but these hardy, isolated mountain folk may have a cultural
significance far out of proportion to their small numbers.
Some scholars have speculated that they may be survivors of
the Dards, an obscure tribe mentioned in ancient Greek chronicles. Others
suspect that they are descendants of troops left behind by Alexander the Great
on his invasion of India.
The most intriguing theory is that their ancestors were the original Aryans, the
prehistoric Indo-European people whose language and light skin linger on in the
speech and appearance of modern Europeans. Fascinated by this possibility,
Adolf Hitler in 1938 reportedly dispatched one of the Third Reichs racial
experts on a personal survey of the Minaro region. It is said that Hitler even
considered sending a number of blond German women to have children by these pure
Aryans.
Peissel, 47, a onetime Harvard
Business School
student who turned to anthropology after a summers roaming of Mexicos
Yucatn Peninsula,
is convinced that the Minaro are Aryans, but his reports hardly evoke the image
of an Asian master race. In a book just published in Paris
called LOr des Fourmis (The Ants Gold), Peissel argues that the Minaro
constitute a living museum of life in the days of stone-age men. They live in
adobe huts, erect great druidic stone monuments and center their livelihoods on
the ibex, a wild mountain goat that they hunt with arrows tipped with the
poison wolfsbane (rock carvings of the ibex are scattered throughout their
mountains). The Minaro also raise sheep and goats, grow grapes, from which they
make wine, and in spite of an arid climate, plant a little grain.
Though white-bearded elders preside symbolically over
village ceremonies, says Peissel, who spent six months studying them, the
Minaro are a matriarchal society. Most married women have more than one
husband. The women dominate the men and slap them around in public. The
principal deities are female, goddesses of fortune and fertility, who preside
over lesser goddesses that reign over time, the hunt and the village.
Unlike Hindus, the Minaro abhor cows and will not even touch
them. Eating utensils are shunned if they have been used by such impure
people as pregnant women, mothers who have recently given birth, menstruating
women, and couples who have just had sexual relations. Occasionally the Minaro
cleanse themselves with the smoke of burning juniper trees, but they almost
never wash with water. Their Tibetan neighbors scorn them as the dirtiest
people in the world.
Peissel, who speaks Tibetan and has made frequent trips to
the Himalayas, says: The Minaro are indeed the last
inheritors in Asia of Aryan, pre-Aryan and neolithic traditions. Beyond the
physical and cultural clues, he cites evidence in the Minaro language, an
archaic Indo-Aryan dialect called Shina, which contains a number of words that
resemble those of modern European languages. Door, for example, is darr, hand
is hath, time is tern, and knife (couteau in French) is cutter. Peissel
believes that the Minaro managed to survive because their isolation and fierce
independence enabled them to withstand the waves of Mongolian invasions that
eventually engulfed the rest of Tibet.
Peissel admits that his ideas should be tested by further
studies, though time may be running out. The Indian government is cutting roads
into the region that will soon end its isolation. Says Peissel: Like any tiny
ethnic and cultural minority, the Minaro are doomed to disappear.
There is one ancient puzzle Peissel thinks he has solved for
all time. It is a legend, first mentioned by the Greek historian Herodotus in
450 B.C., that in northern India there was a species of gigantic ant (bigger
than a fox, though not so big as a dog) that burrowed in gold-rich soil.
Peissel asked the Minaro tribesmen about the story, only to be told that their
ancestors did collect gold-bearing sand from the burrows of a local marmot,
known scientifically as Marmota himalayanus. Peissel feels that the legend of
the ants may have arisen because of etymological confusion between marmot and
the Greek word for ant (murmx). In any event, says the irrepressible
anthropologist, I leave to others the task of collecting the gold. By
Frederic Golden. Reported by Thomas A. Sancton/Paris
|
elenos
|
|