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Monkeydust
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Topic: Racism through history. Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 14:30 |
It's certainly been around since Ancient Greek times.
In fact the pejorative word barbarian derives from the Greek barbaroi, which referred to any non-Greek speaker. And they certainly treated other Greek peoples with a kind of mutual respect they did not show towards other foreigners.
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coolstorm
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 14:37 |
Originally posted by Artaxiad
People imagine that whites are the only racists around. That's kind of a stereotype, don't you think? Racism towards whites is generaly ignored.
The Irish are considered good drinkers
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Actually, I think the Chinese are the most racist people.
I am a Chinese myself, and even today, white people are often called "ghost people", African people are often called "black ghost", and there are disgraced names for Philipino, Indian, Japanese, Middle Eastern people etc etc among the Chinese. And they are very commonly used even today in conversations.
Beside, most Chinese parents do not allow their children to marry someone from another race.
This culture is not much different from Chinese calling others "barbarians" in ancient time. I don't know why it hasn't changed throughout history.
Edited by coolstorm
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Mangudai
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 16:07 |
Originally posted by Artaxiad
People imagine that whites are the only racists around. That's kind of a stereotype, don't you think? Racism towards whites is generaly ignored.
The Irish are considered good drinkers
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Yes it's true
And whites can be racist towards other whites. Look at the nazis - they were racist towards slavs. And the nordic racists were/are racists to the smi
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Artaxiad
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Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 16:25 |
Originally posted by Mangudai
Look at the nazis - they were racist towards slavs.
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See? Even though I knew about it, it didn't come to my mind when I was posting! That's the problem.
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redimus
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 12:53 |
Yes, racism has been around since the beginning of time, and extremely few if any cultures were immune to it....white, black, orientials, hispanics, etc and so on....all did it to their own races as well themselves.
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sennacherib
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 14:01 |
Originally posted by Monkeydust
It's certainly been around since Ancient Greek times.
In fact the pejorative word barbarian derives from the Greek barbaroi, which referred to any non-Greek speaker. And they certainly treated other Greek peoples with a kind of mutual respect they did not show towards other foreigners.
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You beat me to it.
I would also add that the Greek's had some rather choice views on their neighbors to the north, the Thracians. Not to pick on the Greeks, because I love the Greeks, but stereotyping and racism goes back at least that far and I suspect much further. Greece is one of the earliest we know of, only because we have so many contemporary accounts of their culture.
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Infidel
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Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 14:13 |
Racism is part of human culture.
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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Guests
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 04:10 |
The real racism started with darwinist idea. In 19. century the most common idea in western and nortern Europa was racism. Because they believe that they are at the top of the evaluation of humankind.Even Marx had racist ideas. An interesting book of him was" A world without Jews" . He never talked about the nations and countries which are exploited under europian imperialism. After him Lenin and Trocski talked about this problem. Marx always waited the revaliaton from england , holland belgium, germany and like that. to him Russia couldn't do this revaliation because they were semi -asiatic. Racism was assuring the moral legality of imperialism because they were the leaders of humanity. Why socialism fell down and nazizm grow up in a short period in Germany? Because the basis of racism was already ready in europe.
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 04:23 |
Umm, Marx was himself Jewish (ironicly, the usual conspiracy theory is
that Jews started communism, the book he wrote was called 'On the
question of Jews', and was a critique of civil rights), and the reason
he expected a revolution
to happen in England and Germany was because they had a large working
class employed in factories, which Russia didn't (sod all to do with
'asiatic' bollucks in other words).
He was a firm believer that revolution would come from the newly
Urbanised working classes. Peasant farmers had existed for millenia and
not been able to bring on anything like the sort of revolution he
envisioned, and he expected that wouldn't change.
Racism predates Darwin, as does social Darwinism, the name was simply
adopted to make it sound more fancy. Besides, Marx came before Darwin.
Edited by Cywr
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Arrrgh!!"
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Komnenos
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 12:25 |
Originally posted by temiryalg
The real racism started with darwinist idea. In 19. century the most common idea in western and nortern Europa was racism. Because they believe that they are at the top of the evaluation ofhumankind.Even Marx had racist ideas. An interesting book of him was" A world without Jews" . He never talked about the nations and countries which are exploited under europian imperialism. After him Lenin and Trocski talked about this problem. Marx alwayswaited the revaliaton from england , holland belgium, germany and like that. to him Russia couldn't do this revaliation because they were semi -asiatic.Racism wasassuring the moral legality of imperialism because theywere the leaders of humanity.Why socialism fell down and nazizm grow up in a short period in Germany? Because the basis of racism was already ready in europe. |
This is probably the worst representation of Marx's ideas since......the last one.
You can accuse Marxism , probably wrongly, of many things, but anti-semitism isn't one of them.
If anything, there was over-proportional high number of Jewish people inside all Marxist movements, and especially in Germany,who were attracted by the internationalist and anti-racist character of the Marxist ideology. Which was of course was one reason the Nazis saw communism as a jewish conspiracy. The Nazis only adopted one aspect of Darwins theories, the so-called "survival of the fittest", and completely misinterpreted it by applying rules of non-conscious natural development to a human society that can or should make moral choices and decide if it wants to further "evolve" at the costs of other humans.
You are right that racism was one of the pillars of colonialism of European industrialised countries in the late 19th century. The colonial Imperialism was prognosed by Marx and later analysed and critised by Lenin.
Edited by Komnenos
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 14:21 |
The racism is also present in Latin America.
As an example, the old colonial social system divided to the societity by castes ,like in India.
The top of the societity were the peninsular europeans and the sons of europeans born in America ( creoles ). The mestizos were not accepted neither by the europeans or the natives. The natives suffered a type of slavery under the Encomienda system. The african slaves were imported to support the hard work at the mines and in the agriculture.
Plus, the philipines that moved to America. Of course, the morrs and jewish that were escaping from the Inquisition in Europe.
Now, after America reached the independence from Europe, we still suffer the racism impossed between us. The most desired look is to be taller, blonde or having blue/green eyes.
The word Indio is applied in many places as a peyorative word. That word should be word to be full of pride for being a direct heir of the old mesoamerican / andean cultures.
The chinese were discriminated as well.Pancho Villa hated the chinese . Even a massive deportation of chineses were ordered back in 1920's. That's when my grand grand mother moved from Northern Mexico to Michoacan.
Mexico has been the only country in America that had a native pure blood born president ( Benito Juarez ).
General Vicente Guerrero ( 2nd Mexican President ) was mulato
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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chaeohk
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 14:34 |
there is racism in korea for the japanese.... because we are still mad that they occupied and destroyed our culture......
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 15:57 |
Marx sent letters to Darwin and said that after this theory he could fill the blank about the origin of the human that this problem was the one of the biggest problems of materialism.Marx's "On the Jewish Question" also known as "A World without jews". But on this name problem you are right because the original name was "On the Jewish Question" .But in the content of the book there were accusations to Jewish beliefs and life style beyond civil rights.To Marx Jews worship Mammon , not God.Judaism was just a cover on this Jewish anti-moral capitalist belief.
All materialist Jews as Marx dreamed a world without religions and nationalism. So in a communist world there would be neither christianism nor judaism. Thus , "the christ killer" mark on the jews would be lost deep in history and they would be equal persons among other people.
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 16:38 |
So how is being an athiest Internationalist who thinks religion is obsolets 'racist'?
The word 'Mammon' is used only once in that essay, and its a quote from
someone else. Marx merely observed that some Jews had sought
emancipation within European societies through wealth, and criticised
that.
As for Marx and Darwin. Marx rather liked Darwin's Origin of
Species and sent Darwin a personaly inscriped copy of his own book,
Das Kapital. Darwin is then aledged to have sent Marx a friendly
reply, which marx then is suppsed to have used as a scientific
endorsement of his workonly it turns out that Darwin was just being
polite and never actualy read the book.
That was the only corrispondance between the two, other than a letter
to promote someone else's work, which Darwin refused to endorce (used
as a basis for a myth that Darwin refused to have Das Kapital dedicated
in his name because of its Athiestic conotations or something, in fact
that letter was referign to another piece of work of a different
person).
Marx's intrest was becauce in his eyes it led credulance to Malthus'
theories, which made Marx very concnered (seeing as he percieved it as
the ultimate class struggle type thing).
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Arrrgh!!"
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Bosnjo
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 17:20 |
Originally posted by temiryalg
The real racism started with darwinist idea. In 19. century the most common idea in western and nortern Europa was racism. Because they believe that they are at the top of the evaluation of humankind. |
What would you think, you live in the Industrial Age and most of the others in the Middle Age, even some in the Stone Age.
A lot in Europeans think that Easterners are ready to kill for they honour, even own family members, and it is true, I would even kill my sister, my own blood, if she would not marry a Slavian Muslim preferably he should be a Bosnian. I do not consider me as a Racialist and some of my best friends are Blacks, but I could never accept such things.
In this Questions has nothing to do with religion.
But real Racism generalisates a folk, and declares iit as Underhuman.
Edited by Bosnjo
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I am heavely armed, entirely sick and extremly nationalistic.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 17:26 |
Originally posted by Bosnjo
A lot in Europeans think that muslims are ready tokill for they honour, even own family members, and it is true,I wouldeven kill my sister, my own blood,if she would not marry a Muslim preferably he should bea slavian.I do not consider me as a Racialist and some of my best friends are Blacks, but I could never accept such things. |
What does your sister think about that?
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 17:39 |
Its ok, if he ever did something his sister didn't like, his sister would be allowed to kill him.
So-called 'Honour' killings are not particulary 'Islamic', its just backward tribalism.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 18:26 |
Originally posted by Bosnjo
A lot in Europeans think that muslims are ready to kill for they honour, even own family members, and it is true, I would even kill my sister, my own blood, if she would not marry a Muslim preferably he should be a slavian. I do not consider me as a Racialist and some of my best friends are Blacks, but I could never accept such things.
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People who dies and kills for their honour are not just muslims. And I think it will be better not to use the word "kill" near "muslim" in the imaginary scenarios about your personal feelings.
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sennacherib
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Posted: 11-Feb-2005 at 23:11 |
Personally, I think if you are willing to kill your kin for anything short of mortal self-defense you are crazy. I mean who are you to determine the fate of your sister? That's blasphemy, no matter what god you worship.
Just my two cents...
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Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 06:36 |
I think (hope) he's just trolling
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