Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
geomancer
Immortal Guard
Joined: 30-Apr-2007
Location: Bouvet Island
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Unconquered nations Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 00:41 |
What nation in the world has never been colonized,
conquered, occupied, or governed by an external power -- at least not
within the period of its known history? In other words, what nation has
an uninterrupted history of autonomy? By "nation" I mean a people or a
territory.
|
|
Maharbbal
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 00:52 |
Parts of the UK such as the island of St Helena have been conquered empty and never conquered since.
|
I am a free donkey!
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 01:47 |
USA
Canada
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 02:21 |
Iceland, Mongolia (though she was a satellite state to powerful neighbours such as the USSR).
Edited by Constantine XI - 30-Apr-2007 at 02:46
|
|
kurt
Consul
Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 358
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 04:55 |
turkey.
- despite losing large amounts of territories to Britain and France, the ottoman heartland of anatolia was never colonised and today is the mainland of turkey.
-the ottoman empire was not conquered by any nation, but eventually turkish nationalist revolutionaries overthrew the governing body and then founded the republic of turkey
-though important parts of turkey have been occupied (istanbul by the allies in world war one, izmir by the greeks between 1919-1922, trabzon by the russians during world war one) as a whole the turkish heartland has never been occupied (im speaking in post manzikert-times, when turks began to settle in anatolia)
-turks (of anatolia) have never been governed by an external power. they always lived under turkish rule, be it the seljuks, the ottomans or the republic of turkey.
Napoleon himself said no one can conquer the turks.
read up Mustafa Kemal Ataturk and the turkish war of independence for clarity on this topic.
i wish i could add ethiopia to the list, it is admirable how they defeated europeon colonialism and barbarianism as the battle of adowa, but unfortunately the italians invaded again in world war two and succeeded in occupying them. Nontheless the ethiopians stood as the only nation in africa which resisted colonialism.
Japan goes on the list, in part thanks to geographic isolation Japan has retained its autonomy through out history. They even defeated two mongol invasions (both of which were under Kublai Khan), though it must be said this was due to mere fortune rather then national perseverance.
wasn't iceland danish territory?
have the famously neutral swiss ever been occupied?
|
|
Jagiello
Consul
Joined: 08-Feb-2007
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 316
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 05:08 |
We should consider the nations/countries with 500+ years long history,not countries like Canada or USA.It's harder to keep you're freedom for 2000 years,with lots of aggresive neighbours and through lots of eras than for 200 years with only 2-3 neighbours like the two above.
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 05:11 |
kurt, perhaps Tamerlane's invasion and occupation of most of Anatolia
should be noted, shortlived though the Timurid presence in Anatolia was.
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 05:13 |
Originally posted by Jagiello
We should consider the nations/countries with 500+
years long history,not countries like Canada or USA.It's harder to keep
you're freedom for 2000 years,with lots of aggresive neighbours and
through lots of eras than for 200 years with only 2-3 neighbours like
the two above. |
In a way I have to agree. Australia has never been conquered, that is
the nation state of Australia. But the land itself was colonised by the
British and the original inhabitants pushed largely aside. Keep in
mind, most nation states in the world today did not exist until the
20th century unfolded.
|
|
kurt
Consul
Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 358
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 05:26 |
ah yes, i forgot about timur (tamerlane). although he didn't occupy anatolia, he simply arrived, defeated the ottoman army, and raped and pillaged the cities. He came, he looted, he left. can we classify that as occupation? as soon as timur left with the ottoman sultan as his captive, the sultans four sons began a civil war to see who would ascend the throne. if the territories of the ottoman empire had become those of timur's bayazids sons would certainly not go to war with each other to become the next sultan.
besides timur was a turk himself. in the battle of ankara where he confronted the ottoman sultan bayazid, all of the turkic soldiers deserted bayazid and joned timur, leaving bayazid only with his janissaries and his serbian vassal stefan lazaredic. that was primarily the reason beyazid lost the battle.
|
|
Paul
General
AE Immoderator
Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 08:58 |
Montenegro
|
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 09:14 |
Originally posted by Paul
Montenegro |
Didn't Montenegro exist as a backwater province of one empire or another since the Classical era?
|
|
Dan Carkner
Baron
Joined: 07-Nov-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 490
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Apr-2007 at 12:13 |
Colonies shoudn't count, by definition they were conquered.
|
|
Sarmata
Consul
suspended
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 03:19 |
Originally posted by mamikon
USA
Canada
|
The Native's of USA and Canada are a conquered people, so all of North America really is a very thoroughly conquered nation or teritory.
|
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 05:19 |
Conqured by English and Americans.
Iceland, Mongolia (though she was a satellite state to powerful neighbours such as the USSR). |
Mongolia was conqured by the Manchu, and was a part of China until Russia forced it to seperate as a buffer state. Iceland has only been conqured (or was it settled?) by the danes. I'm prepared to count Iceland I think.
Conqured by the Turks of course. Not to mention the Romans, Greeks, Hittites and so on. Also we might want to make a distinction between Ottoman turks and non-ottoman turks.
America conquered Japan. Changed its government and maintains military bases.
have the famously neutral swiss ever been occupied? |
by Austria There is only one place that I think truly qualifies for this award: Independent Pakhtunistan. The mountainous boarder region currently between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I cannot think of a single power that has controlled that region, many have formed alliances & treatys with various tribes - but no-one I can think of has controlled it. PS: What about Russia? Has a non-Russian ever captured the Moscow-Novgorod region? PPS: The Tuareg and Saharan tribes too.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 01-May-2007 at 05:22
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 05:38 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
]PS:
What about Russia? Has a non-Russian ever captured the Moscow-Novgorod region? |
More than once the Mongols managed to take it, the last time in about 1380. The Poles also took it in the early 17th century.
But you have stimulating an interesting point. While parts of Russia
have been under foreign domination at one point or another, the
Slavicised Rus have never been completely under foreign occupation or
control all at once. The closest thing was the Mongol invasion, which
the Principality of Novgorod managed to withstand without losing
control of its political structure or its territory.
|
|
Jagiello
Consul
Joined: 08-Feb-2007
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 316
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 06:43 |
The tatars ruled Moscow for e few centuries,the poles took it once(It's funny that Russia's national holiday is when the 300 starving and tired polish soldiers leaved Moscow ) and of course Napoleon took it....and burned it.
Edited by Jagiello - 01-May-2007 at 06:46
|
|
Maharbbal
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 07:13 |
Tuaregs as well as Switzerland (!) have been conquered by France during the 19th century.
|
I am a free donkey!
|
|
kurt
Consul
Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 358
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 08:22 |
QUOTE=Omar al Hashim]
Conqured by the Turks of course. Not to mention the Romans, Greeks, Hittites and so on. Also we might want to make a distinction between Ottoman turks and non-ottoman turks.[/QUOTE]
"what nation has an uninterrupted history of autonomy? By "nation" I mean a people or a territory. "
the turkish people of anatolia have never been conquered. the people who lived in anatolia before the turks have. as i mentioned in my post, turkish presence in anatolia began after the battle of manzikert in 1071.
invasion of turkish anatolia has succeeded twice, both times the invasions were by other turks and both times anatolia as a territory was not annexed. the first time was under the great mongol empire, in 1268 after the battle of kose-dag. after that the seljuks of rum simply disintegrated into small beyliks which weren't under mongol rule.
the second time occured right after the ottoman beylik absorbed and conquered all the other turkish beyliks, under bayazid. timur successfully penetrated ottoman anatolia going as far as izmir, but preferred to loot the land rather then annex it.
the turks of turkey are the descendants of the ottoman turks, so why does a distinction need to be made?
|
|
Dan Carkner
Baron
Joined: 07-Nov-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 490
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 09:50 |
Huh? What about Western troops stationed in Istanbul during and after WWI? It's true they eventually left but I would say that was a form of conquest/domination..
|
|
Majkes
Chieftain
Imperial Ambassador
Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-May-2007 at 12:05 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
PS: What about Russia? Has a non-Russian ever captured the Moscow-Novgorod region?
|
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth conquered Moscow in the begining of XVIIth century. Besides Mongols of course.
|
|