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Leonidas
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Topic: Pakistani Identity Posted: 22-May-2007 at 08:30 |
wouldn't ashoka's empire come close to uniting the subcontinent?
Edited by Leonidas - 22-May-2007 at 08:32
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SpartaN117
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Posted: 22-May-2007 at 17:56 |
Yea, he "united" the subcontinent for 34 years. Wow, a perfect reason to label 5000 years history to the whole subcontinent.
We need to face that the Indus Valley has always had a distinct identity. And I have lots of examples to back that up.
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Distel
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Posted: 22-May-2007 at 20:55 |
If Indians and Pakistanis are "the same" they should speak 1 language, 1 culture, one colour.
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innocent
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 00:44 |
In India language chages every 50 miles.Differnt sub-cultures and different types of people .
Edited by innocent - 23-May-2007 at 00:46
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northpakistani
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 00:44 |
Pakistan is so much like a mixed salad moreso than India.....so its hard to pin-point its idenitity to any one specific group that would represent the face of the nation.
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A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
-- Albert Einstein
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northpakistani
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 00:45 |
Well Pakistan also has a vast variety of languages...indeed.
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A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
-- Albert Einstein
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Distel
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 01:06 |
Okay North "pakistani "cut out the games you are an indian predenting to be Pak.You're country is more mixed and diverse and has no single culture.Pakistanis are all geneticly realtes cause of the indus.
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innocent
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 01:51 |
Entire India even though is diverse is linked to a common high level culture and which also similar to pakistan.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 05:05 |
Originally posted by SpartaN117
Yea, he "united" the subcontinent for 34 years. Wow, a perfect reason to label 5000 years history to the whole subcontinent.
We need to face that the Indus Valley has always had a distinct identity. And I have lots of examples to back that up.
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just answering a straight question quoted below. if the question isn't straight or genuine then those that can only accept facts that fit their narrow reality shouldn't ask them. qualify 'united' then....
Originally posted by Distel
Can you please provide evidence of when the entire subcontinent was ever "united."
So far I've heard nothing but false claims and theory after theory from Indians.
Never given solid evidence because there is none.Anything to claim Pakistani history and identity. |
Edited by Leonidas - 23-May-2007 at 05:12
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Distel
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 10:44 |
First off South Asians were never united.Second off unity means nothing.The people of Eastern Europe and central asia were united under the Soviet banner.Hey wait a minuite that means Central Asians=East Europeans doesn't it?
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kshtriya-Mer
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 13:30 |
pakis were conqured and ruled by most hindu kshtriyas communitesbefor the monglas, Meds/Mers/ jatts, Sumra rajputs, samma rajputs, and other numerouse brhmin dynastys, it is no different frm any other part of idea. it has been ruled by manay people frm the india not just ashoka,
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Leonidas
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 21:08 |
Originally posted by Distel
First off South Asians were never united. |
with the exceptions already provided, though maybe those in the deep south of India have a better arguement than those in pakistan's punjab
Originally posted by Distel
Second off unity means nothing.. |
Ok I'll take that as, 'even if we were united im not going to give it much importance' which is a bit of a back flip on your previous posts (and this one) were you make a point to prove that it didnt happen as proof of your distinctiveness
Originally posted by Distel
The people of Eastern Europe and central asia were united under the Soviet banner.Hey wait a minuite that means Central Asians=East Europeans doesn't it?. |
Try this; Central Asians and East Europeans = Soviet Union, and it that way they were united even if by force. They share that peroid of history together even if from different perspectives. Now I can take that, at least on a political level, your undertand that you and those people over the border in the east were united at one point in time - and lets face it a few more times than once.
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SpartaN117
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 21:47 |
Originally posted by kshtriya-Mer
pakis were conqured and ruled by most hindu kshtriyas communitesbefor the monglas, Meds/Mers/ jatts, Sumra rajputs, samma rajputs, and other numerouse brhmin dynastys, it is no different frm any other part of idea. it has been ruled by manay people frm the india not just ashoka,
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Wrong. Pakistanis have ruled over India more than Indians have ruled over Pakistan. Its called non revisionist history. Ty it out some time. To the guy pretending to be Pakistani. How in gods name are Pakistanis more diverse than Indians? There are 4 major ethnicities in Pakistan, and they would all be the same colour hadnt it been for Alexanders invasion of Pakistan. Please explain. And also, only Sikhs can say they are related to Pakistanis. This doesnt hold true for North Indians. North West Indians might be a closer bet, but Sikhs are much more specific.
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Distel
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Posted: 24-May-2007 at 10:38 |
greeks and Macedonains have shared history but doesnt mean Alexandar was greek.The Indus did stranch into parts of India,but it still originates in pakistan.Indus streches till Turkmenistan and Iran, no claims over iranian and Turkmen history by Indians why?
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 24-May-2007 at 20:42 |
Originally posted by SpartaN117
Wrong. Pakistanis have ruled over India more than Indians have ruled over Pakistan. Its called non revisionist history. Ty it out some time. |
You know the last time there was a powerful North subcontinent country in pakistan and not ruled from India was 800 years ago. It was the Ghanzavids, and was ruled from Ghazni - in Afghanistan.
Originally posted by Distel
The Indus did stranch into parts of India,but it still originates in pakistan.Indus streches till Turkmenistan and Iran, no claims over iranian and Turkmen history by Indians why? |
Just wondering, do you have any concept of geography? The Indus and Turkmenistan are separated by the whole of Afghanistan. The Indus never travels through Turkmenistan or Iran.
And also, only Sikhs can say they are related to Pakistanis. |
Yeah like Sindhis and Rajputs are very different people
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Distel
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Posted: 24-May-2007 at 21:37 |
Bad geography? Say did you even know the indus had colonies going all the way to Turkmenistan? You didn't know that did you? And now you come here to claim the indus for india when you don't even know the limits of it's (the indus) colonies.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 03:01 |
I am not claiming anything for anyone. Do not forget that.
The Indus is a river, it doesn't have coloneys. If you were talking about the Indus valley civilisation then make it clear. The only people I have ever heard 'claim' the IVC for the republic of India are the paki nationalists in this thread. Ancient civilisations do not belong to any modern country. When you hear someone say "ancient indian civilisations such as the IVC" they mean india the subcontinent, not india the nation state.
One word has multiple distinct meanings. Deal with it.
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kshtriya-Mer
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 17:22 |
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Distel
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 20:28 |
I think I caught you off guard.I definately did NOT mention the INDUS RIVER I stated the indus stretched till Turkmenistan.
But when you realised I caught you off guard and you didn't know that you then pretended I reffered to the river indus.I certainly did not mention the river nor the civilization.But you then sought an excuse to hide the fact you were caught not knowing that so you decided to pretend I was reffering to the river which you knew I was not since we've been discussing the civilization and NOT the river the whole time.
So moving on you claim that no modern state has any claim to ancient history.Well for decades we've heard Hindutvas playing the drum and boasting about the indus, we've seen the proud Greeks showing off ancient Greece, the proud Iranians showing off "ancient Iran," the proud Italins showing off ancient Rome, but after all this when Pakistanis decide that it's their time to feel proud people barge out of the corner and decide "no modern state has a claim to any ancient history."
Well then how aobut telling that to the Iranians, the Greeks, the Itlains.Tell that to the historians who have recorded their histories and given them ancient datings.
After all the histories of all these countries are not recorded from modern days but from ancient times.Persian history is given for Iran.
Ancient Rome is given for Italy.
I do not beleive you are Pakistani.Sounds like a Muhajir to me.And never heard of a South Asian Muslim with an Arabic name.
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AlokaParyetra
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Posted: 25-May-2007 at 22:56 |
lol, Omar is the last person on this forum who needs to prove who he is. He has been a part of AE longer than any of us have, and anyone who has read all his posts can clearly see he NOT an Indian claiming to be someone else. I can fully accept that he is who he says he is, and i think any reasonable person here can as well.
Notice that he is a Moderator. All the Moderators at AE are well respected and trusted in the community. I'm afraid you are alone in your doubts.
It seems that Omar has developed his own beliefs separate from what you expect him to believe, and for that, he is unfortunately getting pounded and dismissed by his own brethren.
I have not actively been a part of this community for that long, but i have been here from before Omar became Moderator, and i will vouch that Omar is who he says he is. Not that he needs me to. Or that this will change any of your views, as you will simply dismiss it by saying, "typical. It's cause ur Indian, so of course you'll show support," which, in a black and white world, doesn't make any sense because he is Pakistani and therefore i should being trying to discredit him.
And as for the name, the electrician i hired the other day is named Aristo, and he is a Hindu from Goa. It's just a name.
Edited by AlokaParyetra - 25-May-2007 at 23:13
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