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Dan Carkner
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Topic: "The Jews of Khazaria" by Kevin Alan Broo Posted: 27-Mar-2007 at 22:22 |
Hello, I'm wondering if anyone has read the book The Jews of Khazaria by Kevin Alan Brook. I was initially excited to find a book at the public library on this relatively obscure topic, but I'm starting to wonder how credible it is since the author breezes through a lot of claims without really backing them up..
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erkut
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Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 04:17 |
Well i read a book about Khazars but i couldnt remember writer right now(Probably his name was Arthur Kostler or something like that)
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Posted: 06-May-2007 at 13:23 |
Yes Arthur Koestler is right about the origin of the so called "jews", in his other book "The 13th tribe" he goes in detail about their origins, he said that the jews are converts and not true jews.....In fact there is no such thing as a Jew, being that their is no use of the J in the Hebrew language..... But the point is their not Jews, not Hebrews, and not Israelites just Khazarian converts. According to both the early-20th-century
popular historian H.G.Wells and the Hungarian-Jewish intellectual and
author Arthur Koestler, amongst numerous others, the people known today
as Jews are primarily the descendents of a Turkish tribe known as the
Khazars. The Khazars have no historical connection to Palestine. They
converted to Judaism between 620 and 740AD, and have no genetic
connection to biblical Israel, and hence to the narratives of the Bible
and the "Holy Land". Koestler actually devoted an entire book called The Thirteenth Tribe
(1976) to the fact that the Jews of eastern European origin, who are
known as the Ashkenazi Jews and who make up about 95% of the Jewish
population of today, are of Khazar origin. In other words virtually
all of the Jews of the modern world have no Hebrew ancestry, and no
ancient connection with Palestine.
Much old documentary evidence exists on the
subject of the Khazars dating from the ninth and tenth centuries and
earlier from Arab, Byzantine, Hebrew, Russian and other sources. The
conversion of the Khazars to Judaism is described in the so-called
'Khazar Correspondence' dating from the tenth century between Hasdai
Ibn Shaprut, the Jewish chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba in
Spain, and Joseph, the king of the Khazars. In this the king traces the
ancestry of his people not to Shem, father of the Semites, but to
Japheth, Noah's third son. The Book of Genesis (10:2,3) itself also
describes Ashkenaz as a descendent of Japheth, rather than Shem. In
other words, the Jews are not a Semitic people, but their contempt for
the Arab world and their bitter and violent war of dispossession
against the Palestinian Arabs could be termed anti-Semitic.
And it makes sense on why the Europeans are not the real Israelites, because if you read the curses in the old testament(which is the only reliable biblical source) you will know who the true children of Israel are.....
Edited by YEMENI_CRICKET - 06-May-2007 at 13:27
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 06-May-2007 at 15:48 |
According to both the early-20th-century popular historian H.G.Wells Famous historian indeed (you ought to be joking, anyway with no real references it is only some kind of namedroping).
the people known today as Jews are primarily the descendents of a Turkish tribe known as the Khazars. The Khazars have no historical connection to Palestine. They converted to Judaism between 620 and 740AD, and have no genetic connection to biblical Israel, and hence to the narratives of the Bible and the "Holy Land". Koestler actually devoted an entire book called The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the fact that the Jews of eastern European origin, who are known as the Ashkenazi Jews and who make up about 95% (make it 65% and youd be closer to reality)
of the Jewish population of today, are of Khazar origin. In other words virtually all of the Jews of the modern world have no Hebrew ancestry, and no ancient connection with Palestine. 1976=no DNA test so no solid proof finally what the hell would a turkish tribe would do so far from its original base. Man you are in a complete delirium.
Much old documentary evidence exists on the subject of the Khazars dating from the ninth and tenth centuries and earlier from Arab, Byzantine, Hebrew, Russian and other sources. Namely ? anyway it would be some 1500 years short so much for the documentary evidences
The conversion of the Khazars to Judaism is described in the so-called 'Khazar Correspondence' dating from the tenth century between Hasdai Ibn Shaprut, the Jewish chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba in Spain, and Joseph, the king of the Khazars. In this the king traces the ancestry of his people not to Shem, father of the Semites, but to Japheth, Noah's third son. The Book of Genesis (10:2,3) itself also describes Ashkenaz as a descendent of Japheth, Well done the Ashkenaz came into existance around the 14th century BC very well done
rather than Shem. In other words, the Jews are not a Semitic people, but their contempt for the Arab world and their bitter and violent war of dispossession against the Palestinian Arabs could be termed anti-Semitic. Wait! your definition of semite is descnedant of Shem ??? Time to wake up the only admitted definition of semitic in the 21st century is linguistic.
And it makes sense on why the Europeans are not the real Israelites, because if you read the curses in the old testament(which is the only reliable biblical source) you will know who the true children of Israel are..... I dont know who curses who but for sure I curse you because Im sick and tired of the people trolling around because as a mod I HAVE TO READ it. Furthermore, rampant anti-semitism seems ok to many in this forum : it is not ! Youd better have a more constructing post soon
THIS IS UNHISTORIC NONSENSE!!!
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Bulldog
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Posted: 06-May-2007 at 17:15 |
As far as I know Judaism is a religion not a race, so does it matter if somebody doesn't have mostly Hebrew genetics? is there even such a thing?
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erkut
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 03:44 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
As far as I know Judaism is a religion not a race, so does it matter if somebody doesn't have mostly Hebrew genetics? is there even such a thing? |
Ofcourse its not important there are even negro-jews.
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 07-May-2007 at 08:49 |
OK, well I personally think that some Ashkenazic Jews might have *some* Khazar lineage.. But they probably have just as much (proto-)French, (proto-)Italian, Russian, German, etc blood from their travels across the continent. I don't think it's enough to make a big point out of it.
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Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 10:16 |
Hi folks and Peace to all! Folks is folks. Can some of you come check out my new steppe archery forum?
http://www.spitfirehorsebows.com/forum/
I would like to have good discussions under the Pan-Eurasian premise that Eurasian culture which includes among others Turkic folk, Kypchaks and Slavs of whichever faith have enough in common to unify and revive lost cultural arts.
Come say hi (Racist comments are not welcome and will be considered for deletion)
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Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 00:33 |
I read it. It is a well written and researched book without bullcrap. I recomend it. It is a good read.
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Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 01:12 |
I disagree with you on one point. H.G Wells does discuss the Khazarian Jews in his works, and do seem to support the view of Turkic convert Jews of Khazaria. So, perhaps it is you who ought to be joking, as anyone who has read H.G. wells would testify to this point. Aside from that Alan Broke and Koestler are not the only ones who support this view.
Why would you call al this unhistoric nonsense? Are you suggesting that the Eastern European Jewry originated from the Middle East?
Originally posted by Maharbbal
According to both the early-20th-century popular historian H.G.Wells Famous historian indeed (you ought to be joking, anyway with no real references it is only some kind of namedroping).
the people known today as Jews are primarily the descendents of a Turkish tribe known as the Khazars. The Khazars have no historical connection to Palestine. They converted to Judaism between 620 and 740AD, and have no genetic connection to biblical Israel, and hence to the narratives of the Bible and the "Holy Land". Koestler actually devoted an entire book called The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the fact that the Jews of eastern European origin, who are known as the Ashkenazi Jews and who make up about 95% (make it 65% and youd be closer to reality)
of the Jewish population of today, are of Khazar origin. In other words virtually all of the Jews of the modern world have no Hebrew ancestry, and no ancient connection with Palestine. 1976=no DNA test so no solid proof finally what the hell would a turkish tribe would do so far from its original base. Man you are in a complete delirium.
Much old documentary evidence exists on the subject of the Khazars dating from the ninth and tenth centuries and earlier from Arab, Byzantine, Hebrew, Russian and other sources. Namely ? anyway it would be some 1500 years short so much for the documentary evidences
The conversion of the Khazars to Judaism is described in the so-called 'Khazar Correspondence' dating from the tenth century between Hasdai Ibn Shaprut, the Jewish chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba in Spain, and Joseph, the king of the Khazars. In this the king traces the ancestry of his people not to Shem, father of the Semites, but to Japheth, Noah's third son. The Book of Genesis (10:2,3) itself also describes Ashkenaz as a descendent of Japheth, Well done the Ashkenaz came into existance around the 14th century BC very well done
rather than Shem. In other words, the Jews are not a Semitic people, but their contempt for the Arab world and their bitter and violent war of dispossession against the Palestinian Arabs could be termed anti-Semitic. Wait! your definition of semite is descnedant of Shem ??? Time to wake up the only admitted definition of semitic in the 21st century is linguistic.
And it makes sense on why the Europeans are not the real Israelites, because if you read the curses in the old testament(which is the only reliable biblical source) you will know who the true children of Israel are..... I dont know who curses who but for sure I curse you because Im sick and tired of the people trolling around because as a mod I HAVE TO READ it. Furthermore, rampant anti-semitism seems ok to many in this forum : it is not ! Youd better have a more constructing post soon
THIS IS UNHISTORIC NONSENSE!!!
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Kerimoglu
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Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 04:41 |
If a person today speaks Hebrew, Ivrit, if he shares all the cultural-religional stuff, and if he thinks he is a Jew, I believe he is a Jew.
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 18:52 |
Since when is speaking Hebrew a prerequisite to be a Jew?
According to this strict definition, pretty much none of the American Jewry would make the cut as a tiny percentage outside Israel actually speak Hebrew.
Originally posted by Kerimoglu
If a person today speaks Hebrew, Ivrit, if he shares all the cultural-religional stuff, and if he thinks he is a Jew, I believe he is a Jew. |
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Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 01:40 |
THE ASHKENAZI JEWS NO TURKS....AND NO KHAZARIAN YOU CAN SEE IN WIKIPEDIA ASHKENAZI JEWS SEMITIC ETHNICLY LIKE KURDS AND THEY DNA CHECK PROVED. THEY NOT HAVED ANY CONECT OF LANGUAGE CULTUR OR DIFRENTE CONECT .THE HISTORY ABOUT THE KHAZAR BEING MANY FALSEHOOD AND POLITICAL POSITION REGRETTABLY.
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Kerimoglu
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Posted: 02-Sep-2007 at 03:14 |
Tavsan, if u say Armenian speaking Hebrew, the he is Armenian, becouse u know he is so u name. If he was Jew and considered himself a Jew, then u wouldnt call him jew anyway.
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khazaria
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Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 05:21 |
Greetings all
To Dan:
While you showed the front cover of the 2nd edition, you seem to be discussing the 1st edition, since to my knowledge there is not yet a Canadian public library with the 2nd edition on the shelf. Why are you judging the book based on the old edition? The 2nd edition is a complete rewrite and fixed a lot of errors and gave more documentation for claims, while removing claims that turned out to be false.
I think your statement "the author breezes through a lot of claims without really backing them up", followed by a photo of the 2nd edition, is misleading, and ask you to retract or edit your false statement. I assure you that if you read the 2nd edition you will no longer have the impression that you had when you read the 1st edition.
To Tavsan:
It has never been my view that the majority of European Jewish ancestry stems from Khazars, only that Khazars are one of several contributing elements. Genetic testing bears out the partial Khazarian and Central Asian ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews, but it is only partial. Koestler's book "The Thirteenth Tribe" is full of false assertions. H.G. Wells is not a reliable source on this issue either.
To Khazari:
Bulan's conversion to Judaism took place in the 9th century, not the 7th century. You're right that the Khazar kaganate was a diverse place, and that most of the population followed religions other than Judaism, but you are too dismissive of the impact of Judaism on the Khazars or on later Jewish populations.
Regarding DNA, what is your explanation for why some Ashkenazi Jewish men have the Y-DNA type Q-P36 (from Central Asia) and R1a1 (from eastern Europe)? And how do you explain the existence of Slavic-speaking Jews in eastern European cities like Brest, Kiev, and Grodno prior to the arrival of Yiddish-speaking Jews?
A few Karay Jews have been genetically tested too, and many of them have Middle Eastern types, while one so far has Q. Further testing may prove that Karay Jews are a mix of Israelite and Turkic.
Edited by khazaria - 03-Sep-2007 at 05:53
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Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 07:56 |
MOST THE HISTORIAN SAY THAT THE KHAZAR CONVARSION IN 8 CENTURY .
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Slick
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Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 08:21 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
As far as I know Judaism is a religion not a race, so does it matter if somebody doesn't have mostly Hebrew genetics? is there even such a thing? |
Thank you. That's exactly how I feel. How does any 'Jew' know anyways whether or not somewhere down the line one of their ancestors converted?
Since it's a religion, I consider the Khazars Jewish. Granted, the Khazarian Qaghans weren't originally Jewish, but converted...
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Posted: 12-Sep-2007 at 00:02 |
We are not discussing whether HG Wells is a reliable source here. My point is very simple, if you care to read HG Wells' books, you would agree that he does mention & discuss the Khazarian conversion. Whether he is a reliable source or not is neither relevant nor is it something up to you to decide for the rest of us. I disagree with many things in his books, but that alone does not change the fact that, HG Wells , nevertheless, discusses those points in his books. Regarding your statement about Koestler, I could care less if his work contains assertions that are not shared by the mainstream historians. Most works that fall outside the sphere of what we call the text book history is filled with similar assertations that you seem to criticize in Koestler's work. As far as I am concerned, if 1/10th of what he says in his book has some truth in it, that is already ground shaking for people who inquire into Judaic & Turkic history.
Originally posted by khazaria
Greetings all
To Dan:
While you showed the front cover of the 2nd edition, you seem to be discussing the 1st edition, since to my knowledge there is not yet a Canadian public library with the 2nd edition on the shelf. Why are you judging the book based on the old edition? The 2nd edition is a complete rewrite and fixed a lot of errors and gave more documentation for claims, while removing claims that turned out to be false.
I think your statement "the author breezes through a lot of claims without really backing them up", followed by a photo of the 2nd edition, is misleading, and ask you to retract or edit your false statement. I assure you that if you read the 2nd edition you will no longer have the impression that you had when you read the 1st edition.
To Tavsan:
It has never been my view that the majority of European Jewish ancestry stems from Khazars, only that Khazars are one of several contributing elements. Genetic testing bears out the partial Khazarian and Central Asian ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews, but it is only partial. Koestler's book "The Thirteenth Tribe" is full of false assertions. H.G. Wells is not a reliable source on this issue either.
To Khazari:
Bulan's conversion to Judaism took place in the 9th century, not the 7th century. You're right that the Khazar kaganate was a diverse place, and that most of the population followed religions other than Judaism, but you are too dismissive of the impact of Judaism on the Khazars or on later Jewish populations.
Regarding DNA, what is your explanation for why some Ashkenazi Jewish men have the Y-DNA type Q-P36 (from Central Asia) and R1a1 (from eastern Europe)? And how do you explain the existence of Slavic-speaking Jews in eastern European cities like Brest, Kiev, and Grodno prior to the arrival of Yiddish-speaking Jews?
A few Karay Jews have been genetically tested too, and many of them have Middle Eastern types, while one so far has Q. Further testing may prove that Karay Jews are a mix of Israelite and Turkic.
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Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 07:08 |
The Jews of Khazaria were Khazars who converted en mass to Judaism.
Khazars is called Khazar and Huns alternatively in the Armenian historical annals of the 7th centry.
Jordanes in 500 AD a gothic historian said the the Huns (Khazar) were the cousins of the Goths.
The Goths are identified as Gog and Magog by Jordanes and Josephus.
Hence the current Ashkenazi jews are the Gog and Magog impostering as jews to lay claim to the land of Ancient Israel!!
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Sarmat
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Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 07:24 |
Originally posted by adnanmuf
The Jews of Khazaria were Khazars who converted en mass to Judaism.
Khazars is called Khazar and Huns alternatively in the Armenian historical annals of the 7th centry.
Jordanes in 500 AD a gothic historian said the the Huns (Khazar) were the cousins of the Goths.
The Goths are identified as Gog and Magog by Jordanes and Josephus.
Hence the current Ashkenazi jews are the Gog and Magog impostering as jews to lay claim to the land of Ancient Israel!! |
Again, I strongly suggest you to post in "Historical Amusement" next time.
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