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Knights
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Topic: Cats - Large and Small Posted: 08-Apr-2007 at 17:35 |
The skulls of the Caracal and African Golden Cat's are very similar indeed: They have similar skull shaping especially at the jaws, in that the snout pokes out a tad. Both possess the characteristic tear mark down their faces - which I believe has something to do with reflecting the sun, an aid in stalking/hunting. Cheetahs have it too. Not sure where Catopuma comes from, I'll try and find out. Iberian lynx tend to weigh around 10-15kg, a lot smaller than there more numerous cousins the Eurasian Lynx. My personal favourite of the cats (for various reasons) are Snow Leopards. They are the most beautiful animals to grace this earth (in my opinion of course ). Recently (October 2005, but it seems like yesterday) two Snow cubs were born at the zoo and they were just so damn cute. I got photos in their first few weeks and I'll try post them. The mother and father are excellent first time parents (despite the mother, Samarra, being from France and the father, Leon, being from Germany! ), and all four Snows sit out on exhibit. One morning I was feeding them and letting them out for a morning run, and one cub (Sabu) was limping. After about 20minutes, the other cub (Kamala) had mimicked her brother, and it's very hard to tell the difference! I must go sappy here, but they are the most adorable little bundles of fluff! Moving on sorry...that is very strange that a clouded leopard would kills its mate, especially after being accustomed in captivity. Was there any provocation? Unsatisfactory or absent estrus maybe? Puzzling. Regards, - Knights -
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Jams
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Posted: 08-Apr-2007 at 18:14 |
I don't know - maybe they didn't have enough privacy in their enclosure? They always seem fond of each other.
The snow leopards at the zoo always seemed friendly, unlike the Leopards.
Do you actually work at the Zoo?
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Knights
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Posted: 10-Apr-2007 at 08:34 |
Possibly...I am quite surprised that it occurred. Maybe it was just an unprovoked freak incidence. Yes, Snow Leopards are usually quite content in captivity (some are terrible however), though noticeably timid and reserved. Leopards can get very rowdy. Not long ago, a boy had his finger bitten off at Canberra Zoo (I think...Omar, do you know?) by a half blind Persian Leopard which got freaked out. The boy had his finger through the wire though, and was out of bounds.
Yes, I work at Taronga Zoo (Sydney) as a volunteer, as I am too young to permanently work there (16). I previously worked on the Australian Mammals/Educational division called 'Backyard to Bush', but now I range over different precincts, mainly Carnivores, but sometimes the Bird Show and Marine Mammals. I love it.
- Knights -
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Jams
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Posted: 10-Apr-2007 at 16:52 |
Dang, you're only 16? By your writing I assumed you were much older. Guess that the Internet thing, you never can tell!
Keep it up
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Leonidas
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Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 09:26 |
ok some tiger footage. check the leap out attack, respect to the power of thses beasts 9no blood just a near miss) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQSlTCAKucM
Edited by Leonidas - 25-Jun-2007 at 09:26
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elenos
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Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 09:55 |
Nice and informative thread! Hope you do get a position at Taronga, Knights, you are a natural for the job.
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elenos
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Spartakus
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Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 15:39 |
Originally posted by Jams
Dang, you're only 16? By your writing I assumed you were much older. Guess that the Internet thing, you never can tell!
Keep it up
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Remember what i am going to say:Knights will have a bright future in front of him.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Spartakus
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Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 15:40 |
Did i mentione that i have a cat and a dog?
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Spartakus
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Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 15:48 |
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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edgewaters
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Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 02:41 |
Originally posted by rider
Who were the first modern Europeans to sight large cats and where (from the Age of Exploration, let's say)? |
Age of Exploration??!!??
No! Alot earlier than that. How would medieval coats of arms feature lions, leopards, "pards" and so on if Europeans had never seen a lion?
First off, big cats roamed parts of Europe from ancient times, extinct species such as panthera leo europaea as well as species that still exist, such as the lynx.
Second, Europeans - even northerly peoples such as the Gauls, Britons, and Germanics - from ancient times interacted with and travelled in the Meditteranean World, to include North Africa. There were Celtic mercenaries in Egypt during Greece's Golden Age, for instance. And of course, during the Roman era, they certainly would have travelled extensively into North Africa and even beyond (Roman traders were going as far east as India).
Later, Vikings travelled widely, making it as far east as the Caspian sea; where they might have seen the Caspian Tiger.
Evidently Europeans were familiar with big cats, as they appear frequently in medieval literature and imagery, especially lions but also other species such as leopards.
Few pics:
The lion was actually the chief symbol of nobility and royalty during Europe's feudal era.
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elenos
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Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 04:54 |
I have a
theory that European Celtic tribes actually worshiped the lion. The European
lion was known as being more to the south than the European heartlands. but keeping
the big cats in reserves would make no problem for people that made their
living on the land. Obviously this worshipful
respect is still found in the lion in the royal coat of arms across Europe, an unwritten tradition is still
alive.
In Hochdorf, Austria, a Celtic royal tomb was found with
lion symbols and dated at about 550 BC. The
body of the king, lying on a gold sofa with wheels, was dressed in embroidered
Chinese silk. This adds to the evidence that the Celtic Common Market (the first
in Europe and on earth) traded as far as China. (For some nice pictures see Celtic
Royal Tombs, National Geographic March1980.)
The wheel of
history has turned and in the modern age the lion reserves have again spread
across Europe because people still love lions. Hail
to King Leo!
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elenos
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Penelope
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Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 23:13 |
I have a friend who was actually attacked by his pet bengal, "Cyrus" whom he raised from an itty bitty newborn cute kitten/cub. Thankfully, he survived the attack. I was there when he recieved Cyrus as a little baby. He has grown into a beautiful "giant".
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Knights
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Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 00:25 |
Hi all. Excuse my delayed response, I have been away for the last week. It is excellent to see this thread resurrected! I'll respond to everything one by one.
Great video Leo! It is scary how the tiger just appears out of no where, and pounces with such ferocity, and agility! I don't blame the elephants for making a quick dash out of there!
Originally posted by Elenos
Nice and informative thread! Hope you do get a position at Taronga, Knights, you are a natural for the job. |
Thanks Elenos I will continue volunteering there for another few years until I leave school, and we'll see what happens from there.
Originally posted by Sparty
Remember what i am going to say:Knights will have a bright future in front of him. |
I will remember that Spartakus, thank you for your kind words
Originally posted by Sparty
Did i mentione that i have a cat and a dog? |
No, you didn't mention that actually. What breeds?
Originally posted by Sparty
Lion of Amfipolis |
May I ask where Amfipolis is Spartakus? I'm guessing somewhere in Greece. Feel free to enlighten us about this statue...why it was erected...etc.
Originally posted by edgewaters
Age of Exploration??!!??
No! Alot earlier than that. How would medieval coats of arms
feature lions, leopards, "pards" and so on if Europeans had never seen
a lion?
First off, big cats roamed parts of Europe from ancient times, extinct species such as panthera leo europaea as well as species that still exist, such as the lynx.
Second, Europeans - even northerly peoples such as the Gauls,
Britons, and Germanics - from ancient times interacted with and
travelled in the Meditteranean World, to include North Africa. There
were Celtic mercenaries in Egypt during Greece's Golden Age, for
instance. And of course, during the Roman era, they certainly would
have travelled extensively into North Africa and even beyond (Roman
traders were going as far east as India).
Later, Vikings travelled widely, making it as far east as the Caspian sea; where they might have seen the Caspian Tiger.
Evidently Europeans were familiar with big cats, as they appear
frequently in medieval literature and imagery, especially lions but
also other species such as leopards.
Few pics:
The lion was actually the chief symbol of nobility and royalty during Europe's feudal era. |
Very true, edgewaters, and nice post. I wasn't too sure how to respond to this query of Rider's, but this is what I thought:
Originally posted by Knights
They did have early zoos at this stage, called menageries. Plus, some
of the very rich could afford their own mobile zoos. They most likely
would have had lions/tigers/leopards in these collections. It terms of
the wild, the early explorers of Africa surely must have come across
lions, as well as the eastern traders. Those Europeans who were
merchant or travellers to India and South East Asia, even Mesopotamia.
No particular nation can be accredited with this feat I don't think |
Originally posted by Elenos
I have a
theory that European Celtic tribes actually worshiped the lion. The European
lion was known as being more to the south than the European heartlands. but keeping
the big cats in reserves would make no problem for people that made their
living on the land. Obviously this worshipful
respect is still found in the lion in the royal coat of arms across Europe, an unwritten tradition is still
alive.
In Hochdorf, Austria, a Celtic royal tomb was found with
lion symbols and dated at about 550 BC. The
body of the king, lying on a gold sofa with wheels, was dressed in embroidered
Chinese silk. This adds to the evidence that the Celtic Common Market (the first
in Europe and on earth) traded as far as China. (For some nice pictures see Celtic
Royal Tombs, National Geographic March1980.)
The wheel of
history has turned and in the modern age the lion reserves have again spread
across Europe because people still love lions. Hail
to King Leo! |
Interesting theory. I definitely think the lion was a symbol of majesty and power for the Celts, just as it was with other cultures. However, I don't believe it was worshiped as a god itself. Possibly symbolic -or even incarnate- of a god?
Originally posted by Penelope
I have a friend who was actually attacked by his pet bengal, "Cyrus"
whom he raised from an itty bitty newborn cute kitten/cub. Thankfully,
he survived the attack. I was there when he recieved Cyrus as a little
baby. He has grown into a beautiful "giant". |
This thread may give some further insight to the matter of keeping exotic pets, namely tigers. http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19737&KW=tigerPersonally, I am not for the general public, even those with mere exotic pet licenses, keeping dangerous animals such as tigers. Qualified people at certified institutions such as sanctuaries, zoos and conservation parks are the way to go I think. On another tangent though, how big is Cyrus, and what's his temperament usually like? Also, what's his fate now that he attacked your friend? Kind regards to all, - Knights -
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elenos
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Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 04:56 |
Knights said: I definitely think the lion was a symbol of
majesty and power for the Celts, just as it was with other cultures. However, I
don't believe it was worshiped as a god itself. Possibly symbolic -or even
incarnate- of a god?
Ah, but did the Celts have gods? How many Celtic statues of
gods have you seen? You wont for like the Moslem faith this particular religion
banned human likenesses; they had the religion of Nature where man or woman was
never placed above other living things. Each life form had the right to exist in
their own natural way.
Daoism, also a religion of Nature, is still alive and the
state religion of South Korea,
their faith gets by with no god or gods. Their major symbol of Daoism is the
circular Yin and Yang to represent Nature, the united universal life force of male
and female that permeates all living things in the endless cycles of life that
take place throughout the seasons and the universe where nothing stands still
and all is in motion.
To the Celts there was no symbolism, (it was not allowed) a
bird was a bird, a dog a dog, a lion a lion, what counted was the free spirit.
In this case the feeling of bravery, of power and the majesty of the lion. I
think William Blake summed up this never ending attraction for big cats
brilliantly;
TIGER, tiger, burning
bright In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
In what distant deeps or skies Burnt the fire of
thine eyes? On what wings dare he aspire? What the hand dare seize the fire?
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elenos
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Knights
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Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 06:00 |
Interesting, elenos. You have changed my thoughts on the matter. Regarding Celtic "gods"; I should have pointed out that I was using the word very loosely, more signifying their recognition of the supernatural. I am aware that Celtic religion and beliefs are far more complex.
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elenos
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Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 23:51 |
Thanks for your reply Knights. How far did the Celtic supernatural go? The word means going beyond the natural. What
ancient civilizations meant by being natural went way beyond what we call
natural now. Mighty cities may have been bursting with great gods and big busted
goddesses but the general treatment of animals was barbaric. Breaking the wings
off a live dove was considered a standard sacrifice to whatever god. Then city nobles
the descendants of the gods stuffed themselves with the dish of the gods
peacock tongues baked in honey and other excesses. To me that is just being
unnatural not supernatural.
Civilizations justified their excesses by producing some
holy book or other that said their god told them it was good for them to keep
on acting the way they did. The dogma was those who had no books had no real
gods, and who could deny that logic. The Celtic religion used no writing up
until the time of the Romans. The Celts were pagans but the original meaning
of the word has now been taken over by modern groups with hazy ideas of
reinstating ancient gods that never were valid in the first place.
Im off-topic here, but an early way of life that clearly included
means of respect for animals has to demand my attention. The Celts (as proved
by modern excavations from countless archeological sites) lived by what can be
described a natural way of life rather than a supernatural. They lived as
farming groups that never had cities. Their worship was of Nature, and that
doesnt mean living in an animistic way.
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elenos
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Knights
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Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 00:11 |
Yes it is true that the Celts worshiped nature, but they did have a sense of the supernatural. Though it sounds cliche, organic materials with hallucinogenic qualities were taken as ritual, in order to become in touch and experience what they thought was the supernatural. Magic mushrooms and woad are two example of substances used by Celts to attain a feeling of euphoria and feel as if they had entered the supernatural. Their reverence for nature was in itself the core of their spirituality. Let me know if you want to continue this train of conversation, or if you want to divert back to the topic. - Knights -
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elenos
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Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 01:30 |
I would like to carry on this train of conversation, Knights,
but not on this thread. Your contentions about use of hallucinogenic are
interesting; but the Celts lived in far more advanced ways than the American
Indians for instance. The Celts began the system of law that is still with us
today and their care and treatment of animals was renowned throughout the
Ancient World. However, the big cats
must remain a topic on their own.
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elenos
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rider
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Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 03:11 |
Ok, edgewaters, I was referring to the first 'modern Europeans' from the pre-Renaissance period.
Knights and elenos, thanks for the amazing discussion.
Oh, and in Crete I saw this amazing Venetian fountain that had four lions (in Iraklio) and I also learned that a Lion stood on the Venetian coat of arms with an open book in case of peace and closed book in case of war. The lion held a sword in the other hand.
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elenos
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Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 03:33 |
Lion (heraldry)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following table summarizes the positions of a heraldic
beast.
Position
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Description
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rampant
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Body roughly vertical, forepaws raised to strike (or to
display the claws to best advantage). The position of the hind legs varies according
to local custom: the lion may stand on both hind legs, braced wide apart, or
on only one, with the other also raised to strike. The word rampant is often
omitted, especially in early blazon, as this is the most usual position of a
carnivorous quadruped.
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passant
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walking, with the right forepaw raised.
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statant
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standing, all four feet on the ground. This posture is
more frequent in crests than in shields.
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sejant
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sitting on his haunches, forepaws on the ground.
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sejant erect
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the same, but with forepaws in "rampant"
position.
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salient
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leaping, with hindlegs together and forelegs together.
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couchant
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Lying down, head raised. Rare.
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dormant
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Lying down, head lowered. Even more rare, partly because
most of the distinctive details of the lion's outline are obscured.
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The lion's head is normally seen in profile. If he faces the
viewer he is gardant (or guardant), and if he looks back over his shoulder he
is regardant. These adjectives follow any other adjectives of position.
The lions in the coat of arms of England
are passant gardant. In French blazon this charge is called a lopard; a lion rampant
gardant is a lopard lionn; and a lion passant with his head in profile is a lion
lopard. The position of the head thus determines his species. This practice
leads some people to insist bitterly that the beasts in the royal arms of England
are leopards, not lions. There is no right answer to this question;
nevertheless they are officially depicted with a mane.
A lion (or other beast) coward has his tail between his
legs. His tail may also be forked (queue fourche) or doubled (double-queued);
in the arms of the kingdom of Bohemia, the forked tail was originally an
artist's flourish, but later became a distinctive and essential detail.
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elenos
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