Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Topic: pellazgs and their world Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 09:30 |
who were these antic people?
it is said a lot for them but still we wonder.....
who was their culture???
from antic writters is said that they were the first that came in this world
were they our (pre) anciet fathers?!
|
|
Yiannis
Sultan
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 10:05 |
Pelasgians or Pelasgoi was the name Greeks gave to the pre-Greek populations of the Greek world.
They were possibly a mix of people and cannot be classified as a separate civilization as no artifacts that can be classified as "Pellasgian" were ever found.
Homer mentions "Pelasgians" as Trojan allies.
Asius of Samos mentions Pelasgus as being the first man, who was born of the earth (rings a bell, doesn't it) .
Herodotus claims that Greeks were of Pelasgic stock:
"The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied."
Aeschylus mentions that I am Pelasg, the son of Palaechton, born from Terra (Gaea - Earth), the ruler of this country, and from my name, its king, has been called the nation of the Pelasgii, which masters this earth
Zeus at Dodona oracle is mentioned as: "O Lord Zeus, Dodonaios, Pelasgikos.
Nationalistic, foundless theories try to prove that Pelasgians were Albanians, Romanians or Croatians. Some others that they were Palestinians. I guess one can make his pick
An interesting article on the Greek language.
|
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 15:45 |
thanx moderator!
as you say that some think that they were albanian, croatian or rumanian also i want not to djudge them like real greece (couse it have a lot to disscus about this)
.you say that homer mentioned pelasgians as troyan allies but we can say "troyan" was a wide notion (still it is)
Pompe Trouger says for macedonia (emathia) that people who lived there were called pelasgians
Pelasgians also were called Illyrians,Epirotans and the others
we have to work more about this
|
|
Flipper
Arch Duke
Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2007 at 10:47 |
Originally posted by amanti
Pompe Trouger says for macedonia (emathia) that people who lived there were called pelasgians
|
Titus Livy mentions that before the comming of the Macedonians, Emathia was inhabited by some Illyrians and Thracians, but those who made themselves supreme were the Epirotans, Pelasgians and the Bottons (Cretans). The same happened to the Chalkideans (from Euboea) who made themselves supreme later.
Pelasgians also were called Illyrians,Epirotans and the others
we have to work more about this |
Obviously not. No ancient text enumerates Pelasgians as Illyrians. However you have Herodotus saying the Ionians are a Pelasgic race. Now how much connection does Athens and Ionia have with Illyricum? Only ones imagination can create it.
|
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
|
|
Ellin
Samurai
Joined: 13-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 135
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 03:05 |
Is it just coincidence that El las makes up part of that word "P ELASGOI"
and that Selli (another proto??-Greek tribe ??) can be found in the word
Ellin/Ellines ?
|
"Grk ppl r anarchic & difficlt 2 tame.4 this reasn we must strike deep in2 thr lang,relgn,cult& hist resrvs, so that we cn neutrlz thr ability 2 develp,distinguish
themslvs/ 2 prevail"..up urs Kisngr
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 07:49 |
Fact is that illyrians descended at 1300 bc from the vucedol culture are a and are related to proto celtic culture. Pelasgians are the mythic autochthonous peoples of italy and greece (thrace too i think)and have nothing to do with illyrians whatsoever.
Edited by olvios - 25-Apr-2007 at 08:34
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:00 |
The greek races aeolians,ionians..... were pelasgians thus autochthonous .The dorians were a herculean campaign that returned as the myths go . No dorian invasion existed for the greeks who called themselves pelasgians before and other names before even that one .
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:37 |
On Trojans as they were mentioned
Dionisios Allicarnassus-(Roman archaeology .a'61 k.ex)
<<And the trojan nation hellenic from peloponisos came forth>>
Διονυσιος Ο Αλλικαρνασευς (Ρωμ.Αρχ.α'61κ.εξ.)
<<...και το Τρωων εθνος ελληνικον ην εκ πελοπονησου ποτε ωρμημενων >>
Agon Homer & hesiod,Papyrus III,dublin 1891,page 70)
<<And the Trojan genos is Hellenic from the start>>
Αγων Ομηρου και Ησιοδου,Παπυρος ΙΙΙ,Δουβλ. 1891 σελ 70)
<<και το Τρωικον γενος ελληνικον αρχηθεν ην>>
and there are many more sources that mention them undoudabtly as greeks so trojan,pelasgian=greeks.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
britani
Knight
Suspended
Joined: 26-Mar-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 60
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:45 |
......pelasgians are certainly not only the greeks
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:49 |
Yes of course .I wrote italy,greece,thrace
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 08:55 |
Of course romans traced their lineage from the greeks and thracians had much in common with greeks.For the greeks it was just another name for them.But pelasgian have nothing to do with illyrians.Illyrians are related to procelts as archaeology and clearly has proven.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
Athanasios
Colonel
Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 09:33 |
Originally posted by britani
......pelasgians are certainly not only the greeks |
It is obvious that there is not a geographical interconnection btw the ancient Balkan tribes and the modern Balkan nations / boundaries.
|
|
|
claedy
Knight
Suspended
Joined: 24-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 10:21 |
Originally posted by olvios
On Trojans as they were mentioned
Dionisios Allicarnassus-(Roman archaeology .a'61 k.ex) <<And the trojan nation hellenic from peloponisos came forth>> Διονυσιος Ο Αλλικαρνασευς (Ρωμ.Αρχ.α'61κ.εξ.) <<...και το Τρωων εθνος ελληνικον ην εκ πελοπονησου ποτε ωρμημενων >>
Agon Homer & hesiod,Papyrus III,dublin 1891,page 70) <<And the Trojan genos is Hellenic from the start>> Αγων Ομηρου και Ησιοδου,Παπυρος ΙΙΙ,Δουβλ. 1891 σελ 70) <<και το Τρωικον γενος ελληνικον αρχηθεν ην>>
and there are many more sources that mention them undoudabtly as greeks so trojan,pelasgian=greeks. |
Completely incorrect olvios it is never enough to extract some bits from certain texts!
You are distorting history and not helping it!
Actually the reality stands that the ancient Greek were latecomers in the region and they adopted the Pelasgian words, names and even gods!
All the ancient Greek is a reference to somewhere ales, the Pelasgian, which is the only one that can explain rezoning behind every ancient Greek word and name!
This is a very short sited comment and disturbing in terms of historical accuracy
Dont forget were are not doing politics here but history!
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 12:54 |
The whole of latin and Greek and Persian literature dont agree with you.You are the on e trying to twist everyything.And greek language to greek etymology.Being an undeucated person as you are is no excuse.That moronic signature makes any academic scholar laugh real loud.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 13:04 |
postamble()Our friend claedy here would have us change all world historical texts,inscriptions,finds to say "albanian pelasgian" instead of greek or roman.Well now you can get started.Greek,Latin,Persian,Arabic,Egyptian,Etruscan....Millions of texts inscriptions and archaeological finds prove us correct and the academic community as well.
Wow what drugs are you on really do tell.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 13:08 |
Claedy is also implying that Harvard,Yale ,Oxford,Cambridge and all great universities of planet earth are mistaken and that Tirana university has discovered the truth that just happens to fit with enver's propaganda!Wow Oxford will be pleased and sad since million s of hours reading and studying didnt do them any good.
Get serious claedy noone believes you you are just degrading yourself with views like that.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
olvios
Colonel
Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 559
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 13:31 |
So you are trying to tell
me that albanian universities are the most historically accurite **** alive....
I have heard alot of
stupidities in my life, many come from ignorant albanians, because intellectual
albanians know their ****.Too bad they are never heard they dont exist probably.
So your Tirana university
know more about ancient history than the rest of the world,,,,but im sure you
got no education, your solely education is stupid web sites made by people like
you.
So where did you guys
find out about greek mythology and know so much more than the rest of the
world, is this through archeological work?or other scholastic work during
communistic isolation of Hoxha.... When you find an y kind
of inscriptions of albanian language older than the book in vatican of 1555, while greeks were
writting and spreading their language throughout middle east and Asia...
It is the same funny
explanation that some ignoramous beings refer to the names such as aphrodite by
saying that is the equivelant of the albanian words afer-dites near the
dawn, which is a hilarious "scientific" explanation.
While the etymology of
that word is Aphros which means foam in ancient greek and dite which means to
be born,
Lets put one plus one and
lets get to her mythological story....and see how much sense the stupid
ignoramus albanian explanation by some idiots is:
In Greek mythology,
Aphrodite is the goddess of love, beauty and sexual rapture. According to
Hesiod, she was born when Uranus (the father of the gods) was
castrated by his son Cronus.
Cronus threw the severed genitals into the ocean which began to churn and foam
about them. From the aphros ("sea foam") arose Aphrodite, and
the sea carried her to either Cyprus or Cythera. Hence she is often referred to
as Kypris and Cytherea. Homer calls her a daughter of Zeus
and Dione.
After her birth, Zeus
was afraid that the gods would fight over Aphrodite's hand in marriage so he
married her off to the smith god Hephaestus, the steadiest of the gods. He
could hardly believe his good luck and used all his skills to make the most
lavish jewels for her. He made her a girdle of finely wrought gold and wove
magic into the filigree work. That was not very wise of him, for when she wore
her magic girdle no one could resist her, and she was all too irresistible
already. She loved gaiety and glamour and was not at all pleased at being the
wife of sooty, hard-working Hephaestus.
Aphrodite loved and
was loved by many gods and mortals. Among her mortal lovers, the most famous
was perhaps Adonis.
Some of her sons are Eros, Anteros,
Hymenaios and Aeneas (with her Trojan lover Anchises). She is accompanied by the Graces.
Her festival is the
Aphrodisiac which was celebrated in various centers of Greece and especially in Athens and Corinth. Her priestesses were not
prostitutes but women who represented the goddess and sexual intercourse with
them was considered just one of the methods of worship. Aphrodite was
originally an old-Asian goddess, similar to the Mesopotamian Ishtar
and the Syro-Palestinian goddess Ashtart. Her attributes are a.o. the dolphin,
the dove, the swan, the pomegranate and the lime tree.
In Roman mythology Venus
is the goddess of love and beauty and Cupid
is love's messenger.
--------------------------------------------
U are losing a tree in a forest,U will need
another 50 years to understand how naive and stupid is what you believe, you
had Enver fack with you for 50 years, now you got some other manipulists to
fack with your tiny brains.
|
http://www.hoplites.net/
|
|
claedy
Knight
Suspended
Joined: 24-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 21:08 |
Originally posted by olvios
The whole of latin and Greek and Persian literature dont agree with you.You are the on e trying to twist everyything.And greek language to greek etymology.Being an undeucated person as you are is no excuse.That moronic signature makes any academic scholar laugh real loud. |
Your laugh is nothing people are interested to know, but your argument that you give to my counterargument!
In this case youre insulting only!
What kind of a scholar are you?
If you were to ask me, I would associate you with an immature and arrogant full!
And what is this about you calling your gangsters for help, this is a history discussion, not a boxing fight
|
|
claedy
Knight
Suspended
Joined: 24-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 22:16 |
While the etymology of that word is Aphros which means foam in ancient Greek and Dite which means to be born sincerely I ask, do you actually know what etymology is? Are you truly aware of what you are talking about? Do you know where the source you use come from, or what is the purpose of its explanation?
If you agree that Aphros which u say means foam and dite which you say means to be born, why is it than that you do not like our explanation but only yours? With ought the consideration of anything we say, yet, dont you recon you are being totalitarian, arrogant and completely ignorant!
You say in the Greek mythology.....
Well do we agree that the ancient people worshiped those gods for real or not?
This cant be treated like some sort of a myth
Dictionary results for some of your suggested words regarding this:
Foam = afros, afrizo in m.greek!
Foam = ------- in a.greek!( Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Foam = shkum in Albanian
Afros = Foam in English
Dite = ------ in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Born = gennimenos, gennitheis in m.greek
Born = ------ in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
To = eis, pros, na, mechri in m.greek
To = ------- in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Be = eimai, briskomai in m.greek
Be = esomai in a.greek
To be = este in a.greek
Do you realize now your argument is of a pathetic full?!
Do you see, it absolutely makes no sense at all!
Do you know that gods that have been worshiped by people had a perfectly meaningfull name all the time, and their story could be linked to explain the reason for holding the name!
Dictionary result for some of our suggested words regarding this:
Afer = near in English
Dite = day in English
afer-dites = near the dawn
When you say to be born- do you actually realize that it is a correct term used to describe the day when its near the dawn, as the day is getting literally born!
Well it is teaching you something very significant, you and us are more linked than you have ever imagined before!
It also gives you a key clue, that your meaning of that word is borrowed, taken for granted, but we are the ones who not only have explained it, but also are proud to still cary on using the pelasgian route words until present day!
Why is it that all you people are fool of hate and totally unwilling to realize that we hold the key to understanding much of which you dont understand from the ancient!
|
|
claedy
Knight
Suspended
Joined: 24-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Apr-2007 at 22:16 |
While the etymology of that word is Aphros which means foam in ancient Greek and Dite which means to be born sincerely I ask, do you actually know what etymology is? Are you truly aware of what you are talking about? Do you know where the source you use come from, or what is the purpose of its explanation?
If you agree that Aphros which u say means foam and dite which you say means to be born, why is it than that you do not like our explanation but only yours? With ought the consideration of anything we say, yet, dont you recon you are being totalitarian, arrogant and completely ignorant!
You say in the Greek mythology.....
Well do we agree that the ancient people worshiped those gods for real or not?
This cant be treated like some sort of a myth
Dictionary results for some of your suggested words regarding this:
Foam = afros, afrizo in m.greek!
Foam = ------- in a.greek!( Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Foam = shkum in Albanian
Afros = Foam in English
Dite = ------ in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Born = gennimenos, gennitheis in m.greek
Born = ------ in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
To = eis, pros, na, mechri in m.greek
To = ------- in a.greek(Το λεξικό δεν βρήκε καμία λέξη)
Be = eimai, briskomai in m.greek
Be = esomai in a.greek
To be = este in a.greek
Do you realize now your argument is of a pathetic full?!
Do you see, it absolutely makes no sense at all!
Do you know that gods that have been worshiped by people had a perfectly meaningfull name all the time, and their story could be linked to explain the reason for holding the name!
Dictionary result for some of our suggested words regarding this:
Afer = near in English
Dite = day in English
afer-dites = near the dawn
When you say to be born- do you actually realize that it is a correct term used to describe the day when its near the dawn, as the day is getting literally born!
Well it is teaching you something very significant, you and us are more linked than you have ever imagined before!
It also gives you a key clue, that your meaning of that word is borrowed, taken for granted, but we are the ones who not only have explained it, but also are proud to still cary on using the pelasgian route words until present day!
Why is it that all you people are fool of hate and totally unwilling to realize that we hold the key to understanding much of which you dont understand from the ancient!
I would be very much interested if I was you, and it is a real shame you confront us this way when you realize its actually true, and it makes sense!
All your suggestions about afro are unsustainable as it is clear above with no meaning in ancient Greek but only the modern!
It is clear you were trying to excuse the borrowing of the Goddess name Aferdita, in the later days when Modern Greek was approaching
|
|