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Lunacy of Afrocentrism: Black China

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lunacy of Afrocentrism: Black China
    Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 19:40

Pseudoscience is sometimes funny and others dangerous, particularly when people learn lies because of political reasons.

I have been observing from a time ago the historical distortions produced by a dogma called "Afrocentrism". To show its lunacy, I post the following claim about Black China.
 
Let's discuss about it. I would like, particularly, that our East Asian fellows give their oppinion about this point.
 
Pinguin
 

The Black African

 

 Foundation of China:

 

The First Chinese

Posted in Rastas by Don Jaide on September 10, 2006.

The First Chinese

By Dr. Clyde Winters
Edited by Ogu-Eji-Ofo-Annu

It can be reasonably assumed that the first inhabitants of the chinese mainland were Black Brown Africans from East, West and Central regions of Africa given that the earliest human skeletal remains in China are of Negro (or Negritos a psuedo-scientific term commonly used today) people. The next oldest skeletal type after the period of predominance of the African immigrants were the Classical Mongoloids or Austronesian speakers.

Archaeological research makes it clear that Negroids (read: Central African skeletal types) were very common to ancient China. F. Weidenreich in Bull. Nat. Hist. Soc. Peiping 13, (1938-30) noted that the one of the earliest skulls from north China found in the Upper Cave of Chou-kou-tien, was of a Oceanic Negroid/ Melanesoid (p.163). This is the so-called Peking Man. This would place people in China during the Mesolithic looking like African/Negro people , not native American.

These Blacks were the dominant group in South China. Kwang-chih Chang, writing in the 4th edition of Archaeology of ancient China (1986) wrote that: by the beginning of the Recent (Holocene) period the population in North China and that in the southwest and in Indochina had become sufficiently differentiated to be designated as Mongoloid and OCEANIC NEGROID races respectively.(p.64). By the Upper Pleistocene the Negroid type was typified by the Liu-chiang skulls from Yunnan (Chang, 1986, p.69).

Negroid skeletons dating to the early periods of Southern Chinese history have been found in Shangdong, Jiantung, Sichuan, Yunnan, Pearl River delta and Jiangxi especially at the initial sites of Chingliengang (Ching-lien-kang) and Mazhiabang (Ma chia-pang) phases (see: K.C. Chang, The archaeology of ancient China, (Yale University Press:New Haven,1977) p.76) . The Chingliengang culture is often referred to as the Ta-wen-kou (Dawenkou) culture of North China. The presence of Negroid skeletal remains at Dawenkou sites make it clear that Negroes spread out from the North to South China. The Dawenkou culture predates the Lung-shan culture which is associated with the Xia civilization.

Many researchers believe that the Yi of Southern China were the ancestors of the Austronesian, Polynesian and Melanesian people.

In the Chinese literature the Blacks were called li-min, Kunlung, Chiang (Qiang), Yi and Yueh. The founders of the Xia Dynasty and the Shang Dynasties were blacks. These blacks were called Yueh and Qiang. The modern Chinese are descendants of the Zhou. The second Shang Dynasty (situated at Anyang) was founded by the Yin. As a result this dynasty is called Shang-Yin.

The Yin or Classical/Oceanic Mongoloid type is associated with the Austronesian speakers ( Kwang-chih Chang, Prehistoric and early historic culture horizons and traditions in South China, Current Anthropology, 5 (1964) pp.359-375 :375). Djehuti your Austronesian or Oceanic ancestors were referred to in the Chinese literature as Yin, Feng, Yen, Zhiu Yi and Lun Yi.

It is not clear that contemporary European and Chinese people are descendants of the original Black population which lived in Europe and Asia; neither is it clear that the Chinese are descendants of the Austronesian speaking people.

Textual evidence and the skeletal record seem to indicate that contemporary Chinese and European people come out of nowhere after 1500 BC, the European Sea People came from the North and attacked Egypt, and the Chinese (Hua) people came from the North and ran the Black Qiang and Yueh tribes, along with the Austronesian Yin (classical mongoloid or Austronesian speakers) off the Chinese mainland back into Southeast Asia or on to the Pacific Islands.



Edited by pinguin - 28-Feb-2007 at 19:40
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  Quote AfrikaJamaika Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 20:56
Well i dont agree with either one, but your Eurocentric ways are no different then afrocentric Pinguin.....

Edited by AfrikaJamaika - 28-Feb-2007 at 20:57
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 21:09
I was just expossing the case of "Black China"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 00:18
hahhahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhaahhahaahahhaahahah
 
 
this is a brilliant piece of comedy
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 01:48
Originally posted by AfrikaJamaika

Well i dont agree with either one, but your Eurocentric ways are no different then afrocentric Pinguin.....

I don't think you'll hear many people claiming that Native Americans or Chinese were actually white though. (In the 19th century perhaps, but not any more)
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 14:20

The thing is that not all claims in here are strictly false, it's just that they are half-true and misleading. Some highlights and observations:

- The Peking Man could well have been "black", in so far as the color of its skin was probably dark. But then again he was from a different species than modern Homo Sapiens, so we can't really talk about colors now can we, no more than we can say that rotweilers are of the "black race" and dalmatians are of the "white race".

- Indeed there were "black" people in China a few thousand years ago, especially Southern China. But they were most closely related not to Africans but to modern Melanesians (what is called "oceanic negroid" people in the article), hence similar to people from Papua New-Guinea of Australia for example. With their predominantly hunter-gatherer lifestyle, they could not compete with the agrarian people which would later become the Han.

The mistake here is to imply that: 1. These people were somehow African because they had darker skin and 2. These people must have had a role in the establishment of Chinese civilization.


- "The founders of the Xia Dynasty and the Shang Dynasties were blacks" This is probably the biggest outright lie in the article. Until recently, there was no evidence that the Xia dynasty even existed (now there's some scant archeological evidence); as for the Shang, they took power around the time that the article paradoxically states that "Chinese (Hua) people came from the North and ran the Black Qiang and Yueh tribes, along with the Austronesian Yin (classical mongoloid or Austronesian speakers) off the Chinese mainland back into Southeast Asia or on to the Pacific Islands." As far as I know, archeological evidence of the Shang doesn't show anything that would indicate the color of these people, nor is there documentary evidence to that sense. In truth, we don't know what color they were, but given the Xia's and Shang's homeland location, it would be very unlikely that they were not mongoloid.


To my knowledge, the Afrocentrics claim that sometime before 1500BC, the Africans had some advanced civilizations which had colonized vast regions of the world, including Southeast Asia, China and the Pacific, India, parts of Persia (Elam) and all of North Africa. Then somehow, all these differently-colored barbarians from the "white" and "mongoloid races" took over the lands and the achievements of the civilizations created by the black people.

This is completely ignoring the mainstream idea (and what I believe to be the truth) that not all dark-colored people came from Africa in historical times. Thus, dark-colored people in Southeast Asia, China and the Pacific, India and Elam came to those regions tens or even hundreds of thousands of years ago and kept their dark color as an adaptation to the local climate. In most of these places (South China, Southeast Asia, the Pacific), these people had hunter-gatherer lifestyles and could not compete with the other people who came to dominate these regions with their agrarian-based civilizations. In a couple of places (Elam and India), these dark-colored people succesfully competed with the "white" people by creating agrarian civilizations.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 15:00
I'm still waiting for the Black Scandinavia theory.

Anyway, this is just as ridiculous as the theories of the Nazi/white supremacist historians, who apparently think so little of their own people's achievements that they must steal those of others. So from that point of view, these afrocentric historians do not glorify the Negroid peoples as they no doubt intend to, but rather spit them in the face.
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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 16:19
"The world we live today... she will be black."
 
I disagree, due to incredibly low possibility and the lack of the evidences (Both factual and logical) of the Black China theory. If they want to make up something, at least make it so that it's convincing... really.
     
   
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 08:47
Winters is providing sources and skeletal evidence, it isn't that I agree with the theory, it's just that all I have seen in rebuttal is a lot of bluster and half a**ing. No sources, no fact based counter arguments. Considering that there were people in that part of the world who were black and genetic evidence shows they developed in the south asian region [regional continuity] It isn't impossible and they would not have to have come from Africa.
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 09:28
It's a matter of priorities.
 
I am myself a historian by education, and if we were to examine every nutty theory on every other subject, we'd get very little actual research done. Indeed, one of the primary aims of this type of education is learning how to be critical of information and how to seperate between theories that deserve our serious consideration and what is, to be blunt, bs.
 
Occasionally one might be mistaken, of course, but in this case I believe I'm on firm ground when I choose to give this "scholar" no further attention. So there. Approve
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 12:30
Originally posted by Reginmund

I'm still waiting for the Black Scandinavia theory.  
 
 
Just ask the people who came up with black Pict theory. I'm sure they can find you one.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 19:14
I post something about Black Ireland. Enjoy it LOL
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 03:39
I dont beleive it...after the Black Athena now we have the Black China !!!
LOLLOLLOL
 

The Afrocentric description of ancient history has been circulating in print for at least seventy years, but it is only since the late 1960s that Afrocentric ideas have begun to be included in the curricula of the most prominent universities in USA, and it is only in the last several years that, as a result of the "canon wars," they have begun to be taken seriously by historians who might themselves have been otherwise regarded as Eurocentric.



Edited by akritas - 03-Mar-2007 at 03:43
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 01:39
Originally posted by akritas

I dont beleive it...after the Black Athena now we have the Black China !!!
LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 
And you should see the angree reaction of some Chineses the first time they hear about this wild idea Big%20smile
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 11:35
But what are the connections between this black skeleton and today Han Chinese.We can simply say that we found skeleton of black people , so the ansector of today Chinese people are them.May be Han chinese came from elsewhere, after the Africian had come.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:18
Black skeleton? Starting from that there are problems. It is well known in archaelogy that distinguishing the race of skeletons is something so unprecise like guessing the future with the Tarot cards. All skeletons are white, the rest is guessing.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 03:54
This is strictly the views of Clyde Winters, an individual and does not represent mainstream Afrocentrism. Pinguin knocks down yet another weak Afrocentric strawman.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 09:22
Originally posted by Decebal

The thing is that not all claims in here are strictly false, it's just that they are half-true and misleading. Some highlights and observations:

- The Peking Man could well have been "black", in so far as the color of its skin was probably dark. But then again he was from a different species than modern Homo Sapiens, so we can't really talk about colors now can we, no more than we can say that rotweilers are of the "black race" and dalmatians are of the "white race".

 
It's generally believed the original inhabitants of Australian were the Australian Aboriginy who left Africa, walked across the middle east and India into China then walked (very little water back then) from Southern China across Indonesia to Australia.
 
So technically the first Chinese were Africans. Then again everyone was in that context.
 
However were they black is another question. Were they white, brown or black when they left Africa? Did they darken or lighten in the middle east? Polynesians are much lighter than them, did the Aboriginies darken in Australia. Questions we simply don't know the answer too.
 


Edited by Paul - 22-Apr-2007 at 09:30
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  Quote Kamikaze 738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 15:35
Interesting, but highly doubtful...
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