Lions vs. Tigers

More exploiting and exposing the likes of Indragit wordpress . com by Raj
http://teamauthority.myfastforum.org/ftopic623-90.php

My bad for Multi posting if I could edit my post and squeeze them in one I would, but I figure I transfer some essential data to this topic.

Tiger Victorys Not what it seems


I'll exploit the ever hide-ing, ever lying... and for-ever low-lifes of the yuku team, (Mainly) Paul aka P tigris, lyon, non-prime, and all the other wap names he's under, along with his boy-friend Jackjacksonj and his scitsofranic 100 aliases he goes by...they wont ever put there list in chronological order because it will show its so small its laughable probably clyde beatty has more then the entire history of comparing death accounts (1 man) lol, while theres are consisting mostly of repeats, fictional books, novels, splices and more. So since they are petrified of man-ing up, I'll step in and for educational purposes and the better of man-kind of the word the truth! I myself will put the list in chronological order and see just how much we have to work with.

For this specific one, I'll seperate them in two themes, because alot of them are mis-leading and dosent have/show what it emits, some say the tiger won all the time, (Martials editorials) and yet its original content states only one occaison, some say the tiger always defeated the lion yet further reading the same abstract (Kersi singh) says it was only one or two smacks, thats no death account let alone a fight. It will be formated in the way of Chronolgy the (time-line) will show just how much wins the tiger actually has...So lets get started in exploiting what these waps have been consealing, hiding and twisting the truth for over 6 years...


Theme 1:

{---{2010}---}

Tiger kills lion, the orginal article is in 2010 spetember 4th but these say 2011, so when I get the orginal I’ll swap it out…
http://www.google.com/search?q=tiger+kills+lion+ankara+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N

{---{2007}---}

Seato John vartys biggest male tiger kills savannah the lioness…
http://www.jvbigcats.co.za/savannahtributes.htm

{---{2005}---}

The tiger always wins
http://books.google.com/books?id=91YEjh1y0g4C&pg=SL16-PA257&dq=Impulse+archeology+the+tiger+always+won&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HtybUf-uNavOigLu34CwBw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

{---{1965}---}

saba had killed two lions

saba was most likely a trouble maker tiger killing animals much smaller than himself, notice the articles stated he killed a tiger just about half his age and was a female, so most likely these two lions are cubs as well, I'll dig up more about this tiger and age of the lions later when I find out what is the name of the circus.

{---{1956}---}

Roman proske jabbed a lion in the face with a steel fork and the tiger finsihed him off...
http://jackjacksonj.webs.com/CIMG1329.jpg[/ur]


{---{1953}---}

ACQUI, Italy, A wild— animal trainer said Saturday a lioness who saved him from an attack by a tiger during a per formance last Thursday had been killed
http://www.google.com/search?q=Lioness+Killed+In+Revenge+By+Tiger+ACQUI%2C+Italy%2C+A+wild%97+animal+trainer+said+Saturday+a+lioness+who+saved+him+from+an+attack+by+a+tiger+during+a+per+formance+last+Thursday+had+been+killed+in&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N&btnG=Search">http://www.google.com/search?q=saba+had+killed+two+lions+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N[/ur]

saba was most likely a trouble maker tiger killing animals much smaller than himself, notice the articles stated he killed a tiger just about half his age and was a female, so most likely these two lions are cubs as well, I'll dig up more about this tiger and age of the lions later when I find out what is the name of the circus.

{---{1956}---}

Roman proske jabbed a lion in the face with a steel fork and the tiger finsihed him off...
http://jackjacksonj.webs.com/CIMG1329.jpg[/ur]


{---{1953}---}

ACQUI, Italy, A wild— animal trainer said Saturday a lioness who saved him from an attack by a tiger during a per formance last Thursday had been killed
http://www.google.com/search?q=Lioness+Killed+In+Revenge+By+Tiger+ACQUI%2C+Italy%2C+A+wild%97+animal+trainer+said+Saturday+a+lioness+who+saved+him+from+an+attack+by+a+tiger+during+a+per+formance+last+Thursday+had+been+killed+in&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N&btnG=Search

{---{1945}---}

Tiger In Mysore Zoo Kills Lioness .
Indian Express - Nov 20, 1945
BANGALORE, Nov. The strange story of how a tiger killed a lioness Is received here from Mysore.

http://www.google.com/search?q=BANGALORE%2C+Nov.+The+strange+story+of+how+a+tiger+killed+a+lioness+Is+received+here+from+Mysore.&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N&btnG=Search

{---{1914}---}

Huerta, a 2-year-old Nubian lion, was killed yesterday in a terrific battle with Rajah, a big Bengal tiger, In Bronx Park Zoo. Keepers and attendants made fruitless attempts to stop the bloody duel. It was an unequal combat, Rajah being; nearly twice the size of his opponent, but Huerta fought gamely until he was cornered and killed by the snap of Rajah's Jaws across the back of his neck. In some unexplained manner the door between the cages of the two denizens of the Jungle became unbarred during the night, and Huerta got Into Rajah's cage 'about 7 o'clock this morning and immediately the battle began. Huerta had the better of the fight during the first few minutes. He seemed as anxious for the fray as the big tiger, and was poised for a leap at Rajah's throat when the tiger got the death grip. With the body of the lion lying inert on the floor, Rajah sniffed at it a few times to satisfy himself that he had completed his work, and then backed into a corner, where he began administering to his own wounds. He had not come out of the fight unscathed. One ear was chewed off, his neck and back had been lacerated, and he may lose an eye.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost_historical/access/243244162.html?dids=243244162:243244162&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=May+9%2C+1914&author=From+the+New+York+Herald.&pub=The+Washington+Post++(1877-1954)&edition=&startpage=6&desc=TIGER+KILLS+LION+IN+FIGHT

{---{1902}---}

FIGHT IN A LION'S DEN
A TIGER KILLS A LIONESS
FIERCE STRUGGLE FOR TWENTY
MINUTES
PERTH, W.A., June 18
~Wanganui Chronicle, Volume XXXXVII, Issue 11687, 2 July 1902, Page 7
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=WC19020702.2.35&cl=search&srpos=3&e=-------10--1----0lion+kills+tiger+--&st=1

{---{1899}---}

An Extraordinary Combat In Which the King of Beasts Was Vanquished---A Battle
http://www.google.com/search?q=An+Extraordinary+Combat+In+Which+the+King+of+Beasts+Was+Vanquished---A+Battle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tbs=ar%3A1&tbm=nws&ei=itkQUcikOLGxigLvvIGoCg&sa=N&btnG=Search

{---1891---}
Tiger kills lioness


http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=GRA18960323.2.25

Its repeated in many different sources as well, I'll get the books and articles they are in later, that way he cant re-count the same occaison multiple times.

{---{1860's}---}

All the times edmonds menagerie was repeated with the proof...

[spoiler]
Repeating of Edmonds menagerie

The Details of Similarities

The place:
-Ratchcliff High way
-England

The owners:
-Mr. Jamrach
-Edmonds moving menagerie

The newspaper sources are at:
-Dublin
-London

The story
-The tiger accidently got into the lions cage
-The tiger broke down a partion and killed a lion
-The lion was past his prime
-One stated the tiger dessembowled the lion
-One states the tiger grabed his throat

More Details
-The tigers name is nana sahib
-The tiger had attacked a boy
-The had killed a jaguar

1.)

(1899)
The Idler: An Illustrated Monthly Magazine, Volume 14 Chatto & Windus, 1899
(1899)
An Illustrated Monthly Magazine By Jerome Klapka Jerome, Robert Barr, Arthur Lawrence, Sidney H. Sime Chatto & Windus, 1899
(1886)
Wild animals photographed and described
By John Fortuné Nott S. Low, Marston, Searle, & Rivington, 1886
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=A+tiger+that+belonged+to+Mr.+Jamrach%2C+the+dealer+in+wild+beasts%2C+was+sold+for+%A32oo+to+Mr.+Edmunds+accidentally+enabled+to+get+out+of+his+own+den+into+the+adjoining+one%2C%27attacked+the+occupant%2C+which+was+a+most+valuable+lion%2C+and%2C&btnG=

2.)
(1894)Longmans, Green, 1894 Big game shooting, Volume
http://books.google.com/books?id=hMP0hsHOAkQC&dq=Phillipps-Wolley+tiger+has+killed+his+opponent+the+lion&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&source=gbs_navlinks_s

3.)

(1888)~Monthly Chronicle of North-country Lore and Legend, Volume 2 Walter Scott, 1888 - Northumberland (England)
(1887)~The Monthly Chronicle of North-country Lore and Legend: V.1-5; Mar ..., Volume 2 V.1-5; Mar. 1887-Dec. 1891, Volume 2
http://www.google.com/search?q=Mrs.+Edmonds+with+her++menagerie++jaguar%2C+which+it+had+attacked+and+killed+by+ripping+up+its+abdomen+with+its+claws.+The+same+tiger+some+years+before+had+killed+a+full-grown+lion&tbm=bks&tbo=1&btnG=Search

4.)

(1877)~The large and small game of Bengal and the north-western provinces of IndiaBy John Henry Baldwin Henry S. King & Co., 1877 - Game and game-birds - 380 pages
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=a+menagerie%2C+if+I+remember+rightly.+A+tiger+burst+through+the+partition+separating+him+from+an+African+lion%2C+and+killed+the+latter+in+a+few+minutes%2C+but+the+duel+was+not+a+fair+one%2C+for+the+tiger+was+a+fine+lusty+male+in+the+prime+of+life%2C+whereas+the+lion+was+a+patriarch+whose+best+days+had+passed+and+whose+teeth+were+in+anything+but+fighting+order.&btnG=

5.)
(1871)THE MEDICAL TIMES AND GAZETTE
http://www.google.com/search?q=Accidents+havo+happened+also+in+some+of+our+English+menageries%2C+where+the+barriers+between+the+lion+and+the+tiger+have+been+broken%2C++invariably+kills+the+lion+Zoological+Gardens+in+Dublin&tbm=bks&tbo=1&btnG=Search


6.)
(1870)~wood's animal kingdom By rev. j. g. wood rev. j. g. wood 1870
(1870)~Animal Kingdom edited by John George Wood H.A. Brown, 1870
(1865)~The Illustrated Natural History (Google eBook)
George Routledge and sons, (1865)
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=+leaped+upon+the+boy%2C+The+same+Tiger+is+also+celebrated+for+his+battle+with+a+lion%2C+resulting+in+the+death+of+the+latter.&btnG=

7.)

Chicago Daily Tribune of Apr 22, 1882, had a news article about a tiger killing a lion incidental to moving a menagerie.

They have accidentally gotten into each other’s cages, and the tiger has killed the lion. Feats of strength are authenticated of the tiger to which the lion can, on evidence, lay no claim; and as regards their comparative courage in the presence of man, the evidence goes to prove the superiority of the tiger.

~Wallace's Monthly, Volume 9 By John Hankins Wallace. Benjamin Singerly, Publisher, 1883 – Horses
~The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science ..., Volume 38; Volume 101 Leavitt, Trow, & Company, 1883
~Eclectic Magazine: Foreign Literature, Volume 38; Volume 101
By John Holmes Agnew, Walter Hilliard Bidwell Leavitt, Trow & Company, 1883
~The poets' beasts (Google eBook) Chatto and Windus, 1885 - Animals - 356 pages
~1883 Belgravia, Volume 51 (Google eBook)
~Belgravia, Volume 51 By Mary Elizabeth Braddon  Willmer & Rogers, 1883
~Belgravia, a London magazine, conducted by M.E. Braddon
By Belgravia1883 - 2 pages
~American Book Exchange, 1883 Good Literature: A Literary Eclectic Weekly, Volume 5 (Google eBook)
http://www.google.com/search?q=+Feats+of+strength+are+authenticated+of+the+tiger+to+which+the+lion+can%2C+on+evidence%2C+lay+no+claim%3B+&tbm=bks&tbo=1&btnG=Search[/spoiler]


{---{1857}---}

“In 1857 a tiger at Bromwich broke into the cage of a lion and a fearful scene ensued: ‘the lions mane saved his head and neck from being much injured, but the tiger at last succeeded in ripping up his belly, and in a few minutes he was dead. -The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex. Charles Darwin”

{---{1830}---}

An accidental but tremendous conflict took place in December, 1830, between a tiger and tigress, and a lion, in the menagerie of the Tower of London.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5AssXdZVr4kC&pg=PA293&dq=fight+in+the+tower+lion+tiger&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zEgTUeXOAaf8iQKSioHoAg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA


{---A.D 20-220---}

Martials poem…

Heres what martial stated...
OV THl PimiJO 8H0W8. 18

A tigreaa that had been accoatomed to lick the hand of her
unanapeeting keeper, an animal rf rare beauty firom the Hy>
canian mountaina, being enraged, lacerated with maddened
tooth a fierce lion ; a atrange occurrence^ audi aa had neyer
been known in any ace. She attempted nothing of the aort
while ahe liyed in the depth of the foreata ; but aince she
baa been amongat ua, she haa acquired greater ferocity.

The rare-seen glory of th' Hyroanian land,

A ti^, wont to lick his msstet^s hand,

Inpteoes tore a lion in his rage ;

A thing not known before in any age.

He dnrst not this attempt in forests high :

Beasts among men learn greater emel^. Anon. 1096.  
http://archive.org/stream/epigramsmartial01martgoog/epigramsmartial01martgoog_djvu.txt

and heres all the times people have quoted martial along with editing what his original poem from 1 account into always won...

[spoiler]
Martial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial

Marcus Valerius Martialis (known in English as Martial) (March 1, 40 AD – between 102 and 104 AD), was a Latin poet from Hispania (the Iberian Peninsula) best known for his twelve books of Epigrams, published in Rome between AD 86 and 103, during the reigns of the emperors Domitian, Nerva and Trajan. In these short, witty poems he cheerfully satirises city life and the scandalous activities of his acquaintances, and romanticises his provincial upbringing. He wrote a total of 1,561, of which 1,235 are in elegiac couplets. He is considered to be the creator of the modern epigram.
.


1.)

{2008}
A tiger kills a lion. Martial notes that the tiger would have never
http://www.google.com/search?q=gladiators+A+tiger+kills+a+lion.+Martial+notes+that+the+tiger+would+have+never+&tbm=bks&tbo=1

2.)

{1984}
Because mart (Martial) a tamed tiger killing a wild lion.
http://books.google.com/books?id=VKpErlYIEsUC&pg=PA379&dq=a+tamed+tiger+kills+a+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4KgIUcCiPKOriQKXjYHQDA&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA

3.)

{1873}
In the time of the Emperor Titus, Tigers and Lions were forced to fight in the Amphitheatre at Rome, and it is recorded by Martial that the Tiger was able to kill the Lion, a fact which has been confirmed by accidental contests between these animals occurring in modern menageries.
http://books.google.com/books?id=OzMDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA392&dq=Martial+tiger+kills+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=INVpUeqXCOWWiQKdg4DoBg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

4.)

{1871}
Martial records that the tigers and lions fought, and that the tigers always beat the lions.
http://books.google.com/books?id=T50EAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA626&dq=Martial+tiger+kills+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=INVpUeqXCOWWiQKdg4DoBg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg

5.)
{1885}
To this may be added the testimony of Martial, from actual observation of the contests in the arenas, where the tigers always killed their antagonists, the lions.
http://books.google.com/books?id=_g0AAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA21&dq=Martial+also+states+that+the+tigers+always+killed+the+lions&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ua4IUbeyA-_DiwLr84DgAg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA

6.)
{1831}
In these games a woman fought with a lion. An elephant, after having trampled to death a bull, went and knelt to the emperor; a royal tiger killed a lion; and wild cattle dragged chariots. Martial.
http://books.google.com/books?id=rCAAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA57&dq=martial+rome++++tiger+kills+a+lion&hl=en&sa=X&ei=stZpUcv3L4SGjAKwiYDIBg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ


An it shows on further studys of the records of martial that the tiger killing a lion was more so a programed fight meaning staged for the tiger to have won via leverages like the movie gladiator…

http://books.google.com/books?id=BiXpAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=martial+tamed+tiger+killed++lion&source=bl&ots=-xGGfGTS-P&sig=FQZLiqcigXg3OxWvFk9s-ZU4Qvw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ohZmUPzVD6uujAL354HYDQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA[/spoiler]


So as you can see so far, there is only less then 20 indivdual cases where a tiger has killed a lion, and all except for baroda, has merits of being fair, almost all of them consist of being a tiger suprise/attacking a lion (who was not ready), which is a huge and disicive factor, male tigers killing female lions, adult tigers killing lion cubs, wild against captive raised, 2 on one which would be against what the wild would produce, and storys that with-held the esstentials, like ankara who dosent mention the details on the lions status...female/cub, but they will be patanted, and show everything about the article as time goes along.

Theme 2:


Heres all the fictional books, novels and using minor fights as death accounts…



{---{2005}---}

[size=24>Novel

Jim tullys "Novel" that he edited, saying a tiger named Ben the bengal killed two lions. lol
http://books.google.com/books?id=pltN_pWgXrcC&pg=PT171&dq=Jim+tully+circus+parade+tiger+lion+kill&hl=en&sa=X&ei=czqdUduHBofJiQLFi4GQCw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

Heres, the original (Novel) that mentiones no death, just another male tiger picking on a female lion...
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50810F9385C10738DDDAA0A94DA415B8784F0D3

{---{2004}---}

[size=24>Fiction
Count Belisarius and Lawrence of the Arabs
(The tiger always won)

It states right in the middle of the page in blue, Fiction.
http://books.google.com/books?id=crplAAAAMAAJ&q=count+belisarius+and+the+arabs+lions+tigers+always+won&dq=count+belisarius+and+the+arabs+lions+tigers+always+won&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3TidUd7WK6rSiwLxuoCQDw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

{---{1936}---}

Minor fights, and only captive disputes

More minor scruffles that only aided the ferocity that the tiger will defend him self as Kersi singh stated, its in the same bullshit conjunction as all the rest of the other cites alibies and sources that use the words "Always" or "invaribly" all of them have been proven un-reliable.
http://books.google.com/books?id=C9sDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA37&dq=clyde+beatty+that+looked+bad+for+the+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dEudUbCsGaKDiwLL0YEo&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA

Because its same text or orginals so far show that they only mentioned one fight, and more so exploiting them when they use the words all the time or always won, would be border line lying because it can be disputed by the fact that lions won there own share (by documented occaisons even more), unless they are talking about a single pit fight that incorperated multile matches, then it cant be counted since theres nothing to back it up, no where in history has a tiger won flawlessly, we have others who claim that...the koreans, yet why did they then splice there videos, and pull out all the lions teeth and claws (rutinely) why does when they say tigers dominated everland, we have more gifs to videos highlighting just the opposite?

{---{1909}---}
Minor fights, and only captive disputes

The funny thing is, this article was coverd by numerous articles, and yet none of them mention the tiger killed the lion, only this one where the man gave his "opinion" that the lion might have to be put down
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jG-8pDqNTuQ/TbWXjOOdLZI/AAAAAAAAAOw/zfr6fk5qj3I/s1600/saddy.jpg

Like here...
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/0ee26474461df44798f5334a6c1edb30ee521bb4.jpg
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/1c616f431a4d935e426ac81f22155554f260f080.jpg

yet whats funny is, they had to beat the lion off the tiger, in a top posistion like that, the lion would have sooner or later made his way to his throat...so in fact this account and roman proske's account aided the tiger, yet proske could have killed the lion reguardless if the tiger dident help a steel fork being rammed in any mammals eye could kill them.

{---{1831}---}

Minor fights, and only captive disputes
It dosent say anything about the tiger killing any lions, it s in the same gesture of kersi singh, these were most likely reserves like everland and as we see in everland its wrongly interperted by there fightingting styles that tiger is better because of his ferocity (which is only to protect) not to be mistaken with agression.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Mb8BAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA453&dq=british+officer+seirra+leone+lion+tiger+universal&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aNabUfrRLOf7iwL9-YD4Dg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA

Fake

Ha ha ha, this article is beyound fake, the fact that this photo already esisted (years) before this article came out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3P3sptnCUI

Not to mention its only a fanatical made account by jackjacksonj, who only copyed/edited the incedent at the same place, same persons details who wrote this article...
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/01/117_36355.html

But whats the difference? Oh yeah, one is issued and published by multiple News stations, and one is only on a blog and fan made, and whats even more funny is when I get my email back an running I'll just email Kim rhan my self, and ask if she/he (the person who reported the lion killing the tiger) can confirm in screen saved testimonial that, that person who made that article should be sued for using his/her name (Jackjacksonj) and lying ...XD XD XD
Fake

Combined two different articles, one from edmonds menagerie and 1 from some random shit that stated a army fight where casualties went up to 50-60 here…that tiger did not win sixty battles, and the pic does not state he killed them. here is the  full quote;

Public Opinion: A Comprehensive Summary of the Press Throughout the World on ... - Page 760
1899

At least, fifty or sixty battles were fought victoriously by him with nearly as
many different seals who coveted his position ; and when the fighting season ...

and, here is the link, in case you don`t believe me;
http://books.google.com/books?um=1&spell=1&q=public+opinion%2C+at+least+fifty+or+sixty+battles+were+fought

You see ^^^ that’s how he merged 2 different article’s to make this…


That’s why after the word’s there are three dot’s like this  {…} showing they are not in the same article which this is the article he changed 1 account into 60 from, here


AHHHH AHHA HA HAH AHAH, thats 60 accounts gone in one post!

Lol this is from paul, aka p tigris the owner of Untamed yuku, this idiot has just used countless of other aliases/names to cater to his boy-friend jackjacksonj in spreading more lies…

Lies
"The lion and the tigress knew each other for a long time, but did not live in the same enclosure (today, most zoos and wildlife sanctuaries will try to avoid tiger/lion mating because the offspring is likely to suffer all sorts of health problems).
One day the tiger enclosure was being cleaned, and the female was released in the lion's enclosure just for a couple hours. As soon as she entered the enclosure, she attacked the lion by slapping his face with her paws and roaring. The lion fought back but within seconds the tigress managed to grab his head and immobilize him. Finally he escaped her grip and ran away. She didn't try to chase him; she just sat in the middle of the enclosure, watching her surroundings. The lion didn't move from the other side of the enclosure until she was taken back to her own. The lion was more than twice the size of the tigress, and yet, she won the fight."
From: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Tigers-3675/Tiger-vs-Lion.htm

And another one from the lieing bias loser Pauleta…l

Lies

The zookeepers got back with the fire extinguisher and seperated the animals back into their own enclosures after spraying them with carbon dioxide canister. Both animals were injured, but the lion got more injuries and had a large cut at the side of his face. Anyway, The fight took no more than 5 minutes."
From: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Tigers-3675/big-cats-2.htm

He says he dosent want to specify there…

-Names
-Locations
-Dates

Ect because he cant, he dream’t it all up, he manifested it out of his bias slop of crap he calls brain. If I truely saw a tiger kill a lion with my own two eyes right in front of me, that would be my lead intro account every f**king time, but the fact that Paul never brings these up (in detail) when hes on yuku...shows that to him its not as important because he made up, I would slam that accounts with photos all day every day if I seen a occaison myself, yet being that its fake and a lie from the butt-hurt bias loser, he never brings it up. lol

Opinions
Richard Perry mentions that “under artificial conditions of captivity, a tiger can always kill a lion…… Tigers are undoubtedly more aggressive than lions, and intolerant of rivals in their territories; and in hybrids between the two the tiger parent is dominant.” Also, for the beasts in the wild, he mentions of another lion being killed probably by tiger “roaring of African lions in enclosures in Gwalior appeared to attract the wild resident tigers, and one released lion was almost certainly killed by them.” (Page 165, Ref. 16)  [INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM/BIGCATS]

Nothing but a opinion, the was no direct evidence stated by the tiger man kailash shankala…
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Not to mention that there are countless of books that stated most of the lions were shot by locals, and the others most likely starved being they were raised in capt


I have started it off with the basics, I'll paten the list next time... and add in the 6 others later, but as you can see, wheres the 367 they said they had, at the end of me exploiting these f**king waps, we will see just how much isint the list, look at it so far, thats less then 20 occaisons ha ha hahaha...

So basicaly, if I was to format all the times the tiger has killed the lion in terms reffernces of chronological order like how it would suppose to be in a book form abstract…it would look and amount up to exactly this…

1.) (2010) Ankara: Tiger kills lion
2.) (2007) John varty: Male tiger kills female lion
3.) (2005) Impulse archology: Tiger always wins
4.) (1965) News article: Tiger kills two lions
5.) (1956) Roman proske: Tiger kills lion
6.) (1953) Italy: Tiger kills lioness
7.) (1945) Bangalore, Mysore: Male tiger kills lioness
8.) (1914) Bronx zoo: Tiger kills 2 year old lion
9.) (1902) Perth: Male tiger kills female lion
10.) (1899) Baroda: Tiger kills male lion
11.) (1891) Calcutta: Tiger kills lioness
12.) (Circa 1840-60’s) Edmonds menagrie: Tigress kills male lion
13.) (1857) Bromwich zoo: Tiger kills male lion
14.) (A.D 20-200) Rome, Martial poem: Tigris kills male lion

I do know about 6 more that I will add in later when I re-find there links, but take a younder at this list, look how patheticly small it is when you take out all the repeats, novels, fictional books and occaisions where a tiger and lion dident even kill each other...compared to jackjacksonj and Indragits site who combined, wanted people to belive there was over 400 accounts of a tiger killing a lion HA HAHA HAHA, that means 30-400=370 WOW! HOLY SHIT! They lied on 370 accounts, which all there site consist of, are male tigers killing more female lions than anything, that means if we was to play the game all the times a tiger has killed a male lion in a fair fight, out of this list above, there would only be one...(Baroda) all the rest are of cubs, females, suprise attacks an so on, XD XD Thats hilarious, so since I know only around a few more, its safe to say all the web has to offer or is out there on the internet via books, articles and so on...more specificaly how much is.... "on hand" alltogether theres just...


Less then 30 accounts of a tiger killing a lion

Even clyde beatty, one man, one alibie, has had more occaisions of a lion killing a tiger (individualy) more than all of history has to offer of the opposite via vice versa, yet clyde is only 1 source, there are countless of other sources of lions killing tigers. lol


I started off as a fan, (of both) so it was very hard for me being I had to often pick a side...until...I noticed that 90% of the web has sites like jackjacksonj and indragits all catering to the tiger, but not highlighting things for the lion in fact often stated that any evidence that favors the lion is in non-existant. lol Right off the back I knew that couldent be true and they wernt fans but just fanatics, that is why if you look at all the posters who are nutruel like...Leofwin, Dalen, Bold champ, Kaos, Me/Prime, Peter, apollyon and a few others, we all can shell out more information than fanatics and fans because they will waste there times arguing on something thats not substantial enough to prove the ultimate answer, in other words they are willing to back up/hold onto a lie forever, while all the nutruels really want, is to find out the truth.

And again, for us, its quite easy to dis-reguard a account or faulty presenting/findings as you all may or may have not noticed, my data has been in a constant state of evolving, I learn, I adapt, I become stronger, I present only things that has credability and substance, I am no where near finished, and I am sure there are a few faulty things that could as well may be spliced, and or not reliable in my collection so far, that is why I asked many people before on the yuku boards if they see any thing not true, or sketchy, or not sufficent enough to be accurate or true, to tell me, and after a rational disscusion I will edit out and remove it from my list. In fact I have "recently taken out almost 20 sources and links upoun all the catagories and I gotta say its lookin pretty good...my next analysis is the romans mentioning of Hnnrk, it seems to be almost word for word, so it could be a borrowing of one mans quota, but yet, what I understand so far is that it was a historian confrence that had alot of people speculating at a university, so when I get my email back up and running I will email them and and ask if it was different people with there own observation of historical records, or if its one quota being used multiple times like the martial poem, if it is, then I will only use one and take out the other 2.

But we'll see as time goes along everybody, its just begun, I will eventually run into more of the nutruel siders (old and new) and we will grow the list properly. So at the end of the day, just be true to the truth, even if it means a little sacrafice of what you initialy wanted, because as they said, the final truth will set you free.

Alohas everybody. ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo4cGB0U4iQ
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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_--uX6KPhHpQ/TRXAXC87q1I/AAAAAAAAAiY/hwEoezMD7mg/s1600/Kill.4.jpg
http://www.leopardhills.com/blog/media/22/Lion_and_Buffalo.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYaLvI36kEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoENHiZnIsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DeJGfZnRk

Maybe you ought to do a little more research before any more elusive or ignorant claims come patruding out. I really cant belive any one of this generation can harvey two face the situation... but, since it is what it is, I guess I'll rectifie the situation.

1. There isint any substantial hunting feats to go by for the tiger, because you cant even show 10 videos of a tiger killing a adult guar, I have seen the predation list of numerous censuses, and they all emit the same data, that they target calfs, juvis, and weak sickly adults, its beyound rare to come by even carrion, which would mean the feat of the fight is not actualy a fight at all since any animal can eat carrion even a 20 pound fox can be seen eating a dead bull guar. Not to mention there are over 10 sources on google books and newspaper archives Indian or english, that showed a Guar decimating a tiger in a pit fight (Rutinely).

2. There is no animal on earth, that can match the killing feats of the lion due to there social living patterns, Hyenas and wolves have higher numbers out-numbering lions almost 4 to 1; but still to this day, you never hear about them taking down or even attempting animals such as Rhinos; Giraffes, Hippos and the all powerful Elaphant, which there are by far more attmepts documented by even solitary rouge or nomad lions, then any tiger census I have ever seen...
http://teamauthority.myfastforum.org/ftopic623-0-asc-30.php

Now going back to the word ignorant, I mean no disrespect, the word just means you are un-educated in that topic/subject...so by you saying or making a coy remark via even the lions numbers dident keep the tiger in check, is really a understatement and a complete lack of knowledge on subject, in fact there were 4 historical documentations of wild encounters, 3; 1 on 1's where the asiatic lion (leo persica) had stalemated the bengal tiger, and one ocaison in Velar where a lion killed the tiger near the ganges river...they were all one on ones, not coaltions, or groups, teams or prides, but just a single smaller, weaker more feeble lion then the african lion out of the two sub-speices...who took on argue-ably the biggest, strongest and most powerfulest of the 19th century worth of tigers the Bengal, being that the siberians weights and size had dwindled, the bengal is either a stale mate or possibly by ratio of weight a bit larger; and to have those scenarios played off the way it did, makes me dought the fighting capabilitys of the tiger even more, since there isint even one occaision of vice versa via (wild vs wild), not to mention if the most biggest and baddest of now days the bengal lost to the smaller end the asatic lion, I'd like your most honest opinion of the other 8 Sub-speices still living in either captivity and or wild, you do know just picking a bengal and or siberian out of the lot makes you look extremely bias right? It seems you cant or are just elduing the fact that the only way you can pull off a opinated win, is if you pick basicaly 10% of the subspices ratio aka (cherry picking) and ignore and if not degrade the tiger by not backing him up statiscaly and properly.

You do know, tigers as in Pathera Tigris, is 55 pounds lighter as a whole speices than Panthera leo...right? And they range from 50-250 pounds heavier then tigers in comparing all lines of sub-speices, so in terms waging power, size, durability all in one nut shell; because of the lion being able to become more larger on average, by weight alone, and comparing them in mass by the over all verdict, lions are larger by mass at the numbers of 30-55% due to his mane...on average. Not to mention lions can reach any weight the heavy obese end the tiger has. Not to mention that majority of the tiger speices average the same weights as a Jaguar...so you must take all the averages divide them and the sum will have Felis tigris as a speices of onlt 160 Kg possibly lighter in the 130-150 Kg range with all the newer information I keep finding, that would put there averages almst at half the weights of the average lion as a whol speices, if we include all the weights of wild and captive of both speices, since lions can reach heavier weights averagely or more frequent in captivity at a 100-200 pound advantage or leverage over even siberian and bengal, which in this case...i have the neccisary data to prove it. As for now, the records still remain questionable of who is the largest cat "speices" excluding ligers. It seems lions in the mass department takes the gold, and could as well in the weight department in further studys as well, debunking of tiger experts like mazak who stated all those un-reliable weights were over exagerated by tiger hunters, and none can be verifyied or reliable.

Keeping all degrading any animal aside (which is what you're doing) the facts is lions were hunted to near extinction in india, there was no animal easyer to hunt then the lion because of there choosing/placements to live....In the open, while tigers more in denser parts of jungles, where the calvery cant reach in quanity to hunt, this is proven alone by how much documentry is on lions even by site seer's and tourist of africa in compared to Indias tigers, lions just waltz up to tourist cars daily even hourly with more of curiosty and or bravery, while it would be hard press to see a tiger by car. In fact, I've read over 10 books that state the main reason of the lions down fall and eradictaion through thropy hunting was due to there social patterns, Quoteing "I've seen 22 lions in the bush and could have poped all of them at once" that means 22 gone instantly, while for tigers you would need to chase them down 1 at a time. Do the math.

I go by factual statistics, by catagorie of all, but more so people tend to want to just see, who actualy was documented winning more as in (Accounts)...well, I've just proven in a earlyer post, that there is only 15 accounts or so "On Hand" to go by through out history where a tiger has won, and only one of those fights was fair...Baroda...still not a wild one, so in actual there is no way to give a tiger a leverage because every thing is purely on assumption which leads to bias tendancys; which in verse leads to exactly what you did, and what every one who is bias usualy does, they highlight the statistics of a catagorie that shows the high end feat, (with nothing to back it up) and shows or lies that the latter has no feats to go by, in your case you claimed lions "Never" I repeat the word...Never, lol thats a croc of $$$$ If I ever heard one, you must be illy bias if you deny simple predation site's or censuses to even videos, not to mention bring any substantial evidence to back up your own claims, you know...proof? One ocaision is not the universal answer or the normal occurance, you cant even bring 100 ocaisions (which is pety numbers) to work with in decideing a preadtion re-acuring probability of Tigers hunt Bull guar in there peak physical conditions...I'd like to just see 1 male being atempted in open grounds.

But back to the account's...lions have killed the tiger over 100 times, just like the tigers most are not or do not sepcify the required credentials of being equal combatants, but since the tiger has less then 20 cases and the lion over a 100; that means the lion won 5x more than tigers, if we go by that alone, then its a shut book, end of story, and to top it off, the asian lion killed the bengal in the wild, 1 on 1, not the african who is more powerful, larger, a better fighter, and all the superior, so its too far 1 sided to make a claim anything more than a 50/50, for the tiger, and thats being generous...but of course more data on hand will be needed to make this debate conclusive...so I guess, being fair and unbias for now, 50/50 is where it should stay, saying anything higher for the tiger with such little anything to back it up, is just absered, ridiculous and making a judgement call on that is just laughable.

Trying to dispute old records is can be taken into consideration when properly analyzed, but just because its an old record dosent mean you have the means to dispute it, since everything of the 20th century goes by writings of B.C times, Science such as Newtons law are all still in non-disputable means, so unless you have some records of a wild tiger the victor of a wild lion, then you have no cause to make any claim other than a Bias opinion that stems from bias intentions and bias presentings.

If you wanna know the basics of whats on hand, in means of what you must counter and or match, I suggest you read this site, from page one to finish, to see what you need to get out of the red, and just be on equal grounds in terms data, information via basics to set in motion a educated opinion...

http://teamauthority.myfastforum.org/ftopic623-0-asc-0.php

Just up-dated and added in alot of new stuff here:

http:///www.teamauthority.myfastforum.org/ftopic623-0.php

1.)
Page one has more of an aray of weights exploiting that the largest of the breeds Bengals and Siberians only average 420 pounds (315-600), basically identical to the lions overall averages as well, along with over a 100 years worth of photos (over 50 individual cases) covering each decade having a photograph (Visual evidence) showing a lion and tiger next to the other; showing that lions are the largest in size, ranging from 1-2 feet taller in height, and 2x larger in size. It also shows that as a species of felidae's, Leo is larger than Tigris by 55 pounds on average when including every weight figure from every sub-sepcies, from equal weights of the larger tigers Bengals, Caspians and Amurs...to heavier weights that can range from 50-200 pounds more of tigers like the Bali, Javan, Indo-chinese, South china and sumatran. While the lion sub-species don't really fluctuate as much an stays around its normal averages of 300-600 lbs as a species.

These are important to know, and should be considered when comparing them, since majority of tiger fans pro data consist of cherry picking, when analyzing the entire records we can now see that overall the lion is larger in almost every catagorie, since the way tiger fanatics be deceptive is by cherry picking anything that allows them to say the tiger is bigger...like...

Just using Bengals and Siberians and ignoring the other 7 subspecies that make up the majority of its numbers historically...if that fails these same fanatics will target the smallest weights by selectively picking regions of small lions and use districts that house the largest of bengals and ignore the fact that when both show the smallest regions Bengals and africans are similar, when the largest is high-lighted, yet again they are similar, fluctuations are never consistant...and if that dosen't work these die hard deceptive lion haters will just pick indivdual cases of obese numbers, like Jaipur the tiger that fluctuated from 930 pounds to 1025, just to impliment that tigers are the largest, yet fail to realize or just want to except, that there are more than 10 cases where there were 900-1,000 pound lions like Sultan, and since lions/tigers can eat up to 20% of there weight, any of those large lions on a full stomach could have out weighed jaipur at any givin time...thats how identical there sizes are. So in reality, tigers and lions are basically at a stand off in weight, but there are many other implimations in comparing them, an majority of the ways to examine their ranges, the lion in general will come out the larger cat more often in inividual weights and a full grown battle maned lion will look larger tahn any siberian tiger no matter what in terms size, compliments of the lions mane.



2.)
Page two shows important factors like, fighting experince how they accumilate them, both their techniques and leverages in how they use them to there advantages; also some of there draw backs as well. It also goes into alot of creditable sources on what most tiger fanatics main focus on trying to dispute, which is the lions mane, I provided countless of not only iron clad proof from experts on hand such as biologist, zoologist, owners and eye witnesses, but video proof as well showing evidence that the mane protects the lion aginst the tigers claws and fangs.   

3.)
Page three, consist of feats; experts opinions an historical distribution; since every ignorant person starts off with lions never lived in the jungle, all the experts favor tiger and male lions dont hunt, lions only kill smaller animals in comparison to tigers ect...I provided countless sources of lions living in indias jungles, over 40 animal experts range'd from Zoologist, Physicologist, Biologist, Trainers, Owners, from circus an zoo folks to owners and eyewitnesses and showed videos an abstracts of african lions single handedly an through coop'; taking out some of the largest animals on the planet such as Buffalo, Giraffes, Hippos, Rhinos and Elephants.

4.)
Page four, highlights over 120 cases through out history where a lion has killed a tiger, along with histroical documentation of each continent that had lions and tigers as part as there cultures past records either from importing them or being indigedous, places an cultures such as India, Romans, Italians, Germans, British, Chinese, Japanese, and more...also a tribute to what a real historical find is suppose to look like...over 90 historical artifacts and counting, portraying a fight between a lion and tiger.

I specifically enjoy the historical artifacts and chose that catagorie over others such as weight/size, abstract accounts, sociality/mental behaviors, statistics ect ect...because...all that I have just mentioned has been faked, edited, can be manipulated and deceptive, jackjacksonj and indragit is living proof of that, since they have repeated single occaisons an made them out to be over 300 accounts, they have used unreliable data an abused the word science with using proffesors like Haughton as creditable; yet his presentings are beyound fictional since he mentions 18 foot long tigers, complete lies just to act as if the tiger is that much larger by 8 feet, they have faked articles that me and alot of others have shown proof in how they did it with the actual evidence, cherry picked weights and made phoney size comparisons, and to top it off, what most modern day people of the 20th century take as the highest creditable means of...videos; have been cut and edited, lied on and maipulated, like the Big cage fight where they stated it was a sumatran female who killed a numbian lion, lol yeah thats why Clyde beattys book it mentions that the tiger was a bengal and was male named bobby not to metion it wasn't the lion that died, but two tigers were killed by the lion Ha ha ha ha, they have done it to countless of other movies and documentarys...buuuuut, they can't do it to historical artifacts...or atleast get away with it; even in short term examinations.

Why? Because articles are usually typed out, so anyone could photo shop one now days an write there own storys, but now that me and alot of others interested in the truth will start to present things that needs its root source to fact check(I will eventually get everythings root refference)...even more so there list will shrink...but anyway; yeah, videos can be edited an cut, accounts of articles can be faked, books and sources can be manipulated an repeated to act like its different occaisons an be fictional books, but artifacts such as...

-Paintings
-Etches
-Raphsodys
-Antiques
-Statues
-Engravings
-Mosiacs


an more...cannot not be fully faked, I knew that was the ticket in exploiting Paul and his husband jackjacksonj aka Kingtheropod an his 200 aliases he hides behind, since on our encounter in the Yuku boards, he tryed to yet agian hide everything by using quanity of his fakes and repeats, yet when it came to increasing his usual charade of matching our facts with his made up delusions, he couldnt do it with the artifacts...and what was funny was he even tryed too...his pathetic efforts lead him to posting over 30 paintings that had no fights between a lion an tiger in it...Ha ha ha haaa ha ha An the little that did, like the tiger and lion biting each other...he hid its link because it was for a base ball team, if you didn't like the out come of who won, you could flip it upside down an it will show the opposite winning XD XD, There ain't even 15 historical artifacts of tigers winning, while theres over 90 of lions winning an still growing...I will later work on getting all there back storys and links, since theres nothing to hide, his sad attempts to refute them an then say hes exposed people is just pathetic, hes just mad since theres more of the opposite an twisting what is evidently of historical signifance, he can cry an cry an cry that some are fables, some are in eras of war, but the facts remain, they have historical credability, not even a historian or scientist can dub them 100% false since both those titles are flawed as well, science is never 100% true, since at one time all scientist thought the world was flat...there are millions of things that scientist are wrong about, its just another form of questioning it to get a mutaual an patented agreement. He cant say lies an fake, since not one of us like Bold champ, leofwin, lioness 2008 an the others have ever once intentionally faked an edited any content, we only provide things as is an debate about it, if its not reliable we disregard it...simple as that...but jackjacksonj them? lol They have faked over 300 individual documents...I will never accept anything he presents ever again...who the f**k would? I will look up its credability from its root source first.

In fact the rest of the team authority site although pitching in little here an there of newer things, the rest of it is dedicated to exploiting an exposing the lieing trash from the lion hating Kingtheropod an his boy friends like Paul, perault, prathap an others. Jackjacksonj is a peice of shit loser, he will say anything to refute something, yet we all know his intentions already, since he was the very first back in 2006, 7 years ago that made his sack of shit lieing site on freewebs .com, he knows he's a lieing peice of shit an paved the road to confirming that the lion is superior to the tiger in fighting an killing the other...or why else would he have faked an repeated 3 main sources an content over 367 times to act like he had that much? Huh! Because he knows...he'd say anything at this point, like how he tryed to say he exposed my artifacts I accumilated, by saying the same thing oveer an over that they were all British....that they were all for the wars, that they were all propaganda, XD XD XD XD Yeah, then slowly I started presenting the links of the artifacts he already wrote over saying fake, lies, FAKE, LIES, FAAAKKKE, LIIIES!!!

XD XD XD XD XD

Yeah thats why when he wrote British on all of them...yet I showed 80% of them wern't british; they consisted of either people that were native to that origin, or had degrees in being able to opinionate on subject, like Historians, Theologians, Archaeologist, an more...an thats why he wont ever put his list in chronology, because hes a scared bitch...he cant catagorize them in order, present there full abstract, put them in chronological order, or be anything that falls in line with the word truthful. Pathetic.




But anyways, a little later I'll add more to the forever growing list and paten more of its content. Be honest to thy self, an the truth will set you free.

Alohas ^_^

lol

Yeah, I found alot of information on weights and put it in that link above on the tiger and lion (Speices). Lions are the largest living cat speices in terms size, they are also on average the heaviest big cat on average, since the historical weights of atleast the past 2 centurys has it as the:

-South china
-Bengal
-Javan
-Caspian
-Indnonisian
-Malayin
-Sumatran
-Siberian
-Bali

All combined into an average of 350 pounds (historically) 320 pounds (Current) Ranging from 200 lbs(Bali)--470 lbs{Amur) fluctuations as high end average at 600lbs only for 3/9subspeices reaching the 600 pounds, as larger ones of 700 pounds and up are the exceptional, while some are estimated heavier, the rest of the 6/9 subspeices are quite small, some can rival the asiatic lion and some are no bigger than a large dog.

As for lions, further studys show the intial 7 sub-speices has been Dna tested an showed there is no difference amoungs most of the african south, east, and west hemisphere -Genetically- so they are branched in as one sub-species, either leo serengetii or leo krugeri. the true sub-species of lions are...

-Asiatic
-African
-Sub'Saharan/Barbary

A combined weight of an average of 420 pounds (Historically) 400 pounds (current). Since unlike the tiger, the lion has a base point, the smallest of lions were of 350 lbs(Asiatic)-500 lbs(Barbary), fluctuating on the high end averages of north african lions were of 600 pounds as well, 700 pounds and up are the exceptional, as in the live stock keepers book heavier than 750 pound lions have been estimated...but of course thats not the norm atleast for in the wild.

So on average terms the the genus species of pathera leo (Lions) of current is roughly around 80 pounds heavier than the genus speices of Pathera Tigris (Tigers), if we compare via cherry picking sub-species, then lions are heavier than 6/9 of tiger speices fluctuating on the basis of 100-300 pounds, while the 3/9 of tiger subspeices are heavier than 1/3rd of asiatic lion sub-speices on a basis of 50-100 pounds and are basically bengals, siberians and Hycranians tigers are at a fluctuating pount of parity with the african and barbary lion. Overall the lion is some what alot heavier on its speices terms, and thats only on mass/weight.

The lion is the heaviest living cat speices on average in the wild

We also compare the statistics in terms whos larger in many other catagories, not only by mass, but by size, common notes have the tiger slightly longer, some reseacrh being done of current by collecting data by two enthusiast Bold champ and leofwin so far indicates that bengal and siberian tigers the largest existing wild breed of tigers, are not at all longer but the same length as lions, more will be needed to confirm this, but if that is true, then atleast a logical implimation can be said that on average the lion could be longer, since majority of the other sub-species of tigers length measurments would be in conjunction much shorter and have smaller figures, lowering the speices averaged to being less of that of the lion who doesnt really have big gaps in there size ranges. But the lion is in fact the tallest living cat species on majority of the cases that range from 1 through almost two feet taller than the average tiger from smallest wild one (Sumatran) to largest wild ones (Siberians)...it is confirmed with book abstract measurements from biologist, zoologist and natraulist...also from 10 decades of photo (visual comparisons) with a consistantcy of lions being much, much taller at the shoulder and head region.

The lion is the tallest living cat speices

Followed by what we see with our own two eyes, it is undiniable, undisputebale that lions are the largest in visual size/mass in what we see with our own two eyes, from a anatomy/ornament of the body...'His mane' increases his size by 20%(Standard mane covering only the head, neck and throat area) on average and 50%(Barbary mane that covers farther down the shoulder region and extends to the belly) at max, so comparing sizes of the two speices lions, will be visually look larger than tigers such as the sumatran, malay, bali ect...by the means of 50-80% and larger in size to the siberian, bengal and caspian by means of 20-50%...on overall averages since already the mass/weight of lions are heavier which would mean the lion would look both taller and heavier even if he dient have a mane, but the mane will make the average lion look around 45% larger than the average tiger, fluctuating size differentials of the msaller end, a bali tiger would look 2/6th's the size of a average lion, while at the higher end of siberians would look 4/6ths the size of a barbary-like maned lion.

Lions are the largest big cat speices in size

At max, the record holders in captivity is "Gueiness book holder" Jaipur the siberian tiger, owned by Joan .M his weight fluctation figures was 930 lbs-1025 lbs at peak, followed by an aray of other 800-900 pound (unconfirmed) tigers such as Thor, gengis, and Saber... the heaviest lion on record is Sultan the african lion, owned by "Awarded circus performing trainer Frits' Swede' Johnson "saint petersberg times newspaper archive" (1962) fluctuation figures 900 lbs-1,000 lbs at peak, followed by an array of (confirmed) lions that were in the 800-900 braket, such as Woody the 800 pound lion owned previously be the hells angel biker gang, confiscated and living in a animal sanctuary, Rutledge the 806 pound lion, oaklawn animal sanctuary (Geuniss book holder), Simba the lion colchester zoo england at 826 pounds, lion named Rhino' 850 pounds Tx's animal preservation weighed confirmed by zoo keeper gabe, ethopian Court housed a 900 pound lion, Kingsbridge also held a 900 pound lion along with another 900 pound goliath named Ali, theres also two 950 pound lions on youtube, yet to be confirmed via weighed, along with a hand full of other 800-900 pound lions. That being said, the largest tiger out weighed the largest lion by 0.25% 25 pounds, but on the accord of stomach content, since lions/tigers can eat 20% of there intial weight/mass, I sultan on any given day of a hefty meal could have out weighed Jaipur. Although Jaipur outweighed Sultan by a mere 25 pounds, Sultan had a Barbary like mane, so his size was increased by 50%, so if we could have seen Jaipur standing flush next to Sultan....Sultan would have looked much larger in size compared to Jaipur, both taller and larger in size, making J' 4/6ths the size of S' not to mention lions have more muscle mass, since siberian tigers need more fat storage to survive artic weather of snowy terrains, on a base tigers have around 15% more fat than lions, while lions comprimises with there extreme heat (Africa one of the hottest places on earth) shedding of exsis fat, makes lions have more muscle due to there sauna like enviorment.

Lions are the largest big cat in terms muscle mass

It is being further understood that lions could have been the larger cat from the start, since...

1.) Weighing lions will differ substantially and drastically because of their social patterns, unlike all other big cats who are mainly solitary, the lion must share his food consumption with 12-30 other lions at a time, so inverse a kill such as a 1,000 pound buffalo will provide a Tiger a consistant and well established diet consumption, eating for a few days of all his fill and apatite can manage, in other words at-least a basis of 30-60 kilos of meat on each sittings, while a 1,000 pound buffalo in conjunction to a lion (pride, coalition, group) each lion will only consume small amounts, cubs; juvis; adults; females, males, brothers sisters, auntys and uncles, granpas, grandmas and grand kids all will only have a brief moment in grabbing only bits and peices of the buffalo, while the tigers meat is pro-longed to almost a week, the 1,000 pound buffalo will be gone in less then a day, feeding each lion only around 20-60 pounds of meat, so the tiger in the wild is consuming more than the lion, this is confirmed in captivity since on a consistant diet the tiger is shown actually smaller than some large wild tigers, at a average captive specimen of a bengal 300-400, while the average bengal is at a 300-500, of course it will vary since a element of pampering or over feeding can, will and does take place, leading to mixed variations, but the lion is shown to be slightly the opposite, in captivity the lion seems to average for males at 500-600 pounds, even 700 pounds are found quite frequently, which then in comparison on equal food consumtion is in margin of showing the male lion even as a whole speices including asiatics will always be larger than the heaviest end of sub-species bengal, capsian and siberian on average, when they are both fed the same consumtion ratios, this can logically be implimented by the simple fact of....if a tiger in the wild had to share his food with some 12-30 other family members his food intake would be drastically cut by atleast 1/10th, so inverse he will be atleast 20% lighter and smaller than a solitary diet, the same way the male tiger is 20% lighter on average compared to the male lion in captivity.

Lions are the heaviest cat speices in captivity on averages

2.) Nuetering, it is a common economic tactics in zoos, menageries and circuses to always boust out they have the worlds largest, the worlds biggest, the worlds most grand specimen, and there is a way to increase the size of lions and tigers weight, they nueter the animal, (cut out the animals balls) this on average increases the lion/tigers weight by nearly 100%, lions like woody and rhino 800 pounders are testiments to the claim, but for lions it is hardly ever done, since they lose there beautiful manes which fall out in the process, but for tigers there is no true way in knowing if he was castrated, atleast if the owners dont mention it to you, you wont know, this is also a thought that could debunk the pamaperd tiger jaipur, he was both fed with a bottle to the day he died (Spoiled) and could have been nutured as well, those 2 combinations could have led to an unatraul course in how he recived the title as the worlds heaviest cat, which if confirmed by miss Joan, then lions could as well be the heaviest living cat species as well, since Sultan wasn;t nutuerd for a fact, since he has his mane still present, not to mention the two nuteued brothers on youtube, are only estimated, if properly weighed, I'm sure they can fly pass 1,000 pounds, since they look the part, spoiled, large, and nutuered.

At present the tiger is still the heaviest big cat speices in aboulte weight by 0.25%

Finally, the ultimate testimate in seeing which big cat holds the genes in being the larger of the two of lions and tigers...The genetics...Genetically speaking, we always look at the dominant end of there speices gender; the males. If we speak scientifcally accurate, if we look at the cross, (hybrids) of tigers and lions; we can see which dominant male off spring promotes the larger size/weight. The largest the male siberian tiger promoted out of a female tiger was of course Jaipur, a 1,000 pound big cat, but in the cross, the male tiger makes the lionesses off spring (The tigon) comes out smaller than either or parents, with an average of 350 pounds, now for the male lion, he promoted a off-spring that too carried on almost identical with his own 1,000 pound tansfer (non-nutuerd) off-spring sultun, and for the cross, it is evident that the male lion holds all the more superior genes in promoting a larger specimen of a big cat, since when the male lion mates with the female tiger, the lion promotes a weight figure far greater than the male tiger could, with a off spring (The liger) that averages 700-1,000 pounds, and maxing out at 1,600 pounds...thats basically 2-5x larger of average to max weights of what the tiger could generate/accumilate in mass.

So the verdicts stand as in terms Size comparison...

-The lion is the heaviest cat species on average
-The lion is the tallest speices of cat on average
-The tiger is the heaviest cat speices in terms absolute weight
-The lion is the largest cat in size on average and at max
-The lion is the heaviest and largest cat speices in terms muscle mass
-The male lion is the heaviest cat on average in captivity
-The male lion promotes the superior size
-The son of the male lion, and son of the female tigress (liger=Leonidus) could very well be one of the largest and heaviest big cats to have ever walked the earth, larger than the saber tooth cat.

These are confirmed by via 40 Book abstracts, Biology studys, Zoologist, Natrualist, video confirmations, measurements and weights, logical implications of science, over 50 photos of them standing next to the other from the 19th hundreds all the way to the year 2013 on a consistant basis.






As for clyde beatty, I agree he is the highest authority in determining which cat is superior.

A yuku memember eh?

Haven't seen one of you deceptive lying fanatics for a while. lol Clyde beatty stated these things himself, its there in plain black an white 9 times out of 10 a lion would whip a tiger, terrel jacobs also stated the lions heavy mane is a good protection...he stated nothing of a tiger dominating a lion nor did he discredit clyde (show the quota and link then), as for your random experts such as Craig Packer ect, they never worked with both lion and tiger, only one or the other, hence their opinion is no greater than the average person who can look up wiki like sites. Not to mention all the opinions such as Sunqist are decided on reading fictional books and novels, hence their exact quota was on count belisarious and the arabs stating tigers always won, a quick fact check on google books shows its a fictional story (right in the center of the page in blue), who also twist the tower of london fight into tigers won everytime, there was only one fight documented in 1830, which was 2 wild freshly caught tigers who lifted up a sliding door attacking King Georges indian/asiatic lion, who, when the fight was seperated the second bout when it was one on one, the lion beat down the male tiger breaking his fang. Almost none of them have seen fights specifically with a lion and tiger as majority of my sources have.

lol Funny, you have no links, cites, quotas to these alibies of yours...to bad for you I already am familiar with all of those names,    

Louis roth stated when the fights break out, always protect the weaker animal, for I have seen a tiger kill a lion, a lion kill a polar bear a small leopard kill a huge tiger.

You must be retarded, to think by that he ment the tiger is stronger, if so, I guess he must of ment a small leopard is stronger and superior to a huge tiger then eh? Or a lion is stronger than a polar bear, lol give me a break, none of those people favor the tiger over the lion, or else you would have brought in there quotas from there books and or articles from creditable newspaper archives, like your B.S claim that Bert nelson favors the tiger lol I already brought in via google books which Nelson stated lions are more better fighters and will often whip a tiger...so how did you pull that one out your A$$? Oh the phoney quote the wrong cat is called king of the beast? lol

Roman proske stated on the first paragraph he thinks tigers are the most agressive animal, yet then pages later states the male tiger is not as agressive as the male lion in mating season, so the lion is not more agressive over all, not to mention he along with gunther abel and alex kerr and all the rest never use specific words in conjunction comparing lions to tigers, he even states black leopards is the most powerful predators, yet that doesnt equate to him being able to on average kill bears, lions or tigers...all you're are doing is relying on twisting facts, as I showed on the link on my previous post all the exploitations and exposure of you fanatics on yuku, yet in a return fire, no proof is brought on saying you all exposed my archive, just rants an critics throwing tantrums saying fake, fables british, propaganda ect. They arnt fake as yours all are; since I made up none, they are all on reliable sources via google books and newspaper archives, yet your fakes, are of photo shoped faked articles, of a single tiger killing 60 lions ha ha ha hah aaa haa ha.

And mabel starks is a joke, she dident like lions, she stated it her self and stoped working them early on, her call out to beatty is one of the most hilarious things of all time, (which is good beatty never answered or got the memo since) she betting that 1,000 dollars her tigers would kill clydes lions would get clyde where? His spinning tiger princess killed in a accidental fight with a lion cost clyde 10,000 dollars, whats 1,000 supposed to confinscate? Not to mention she never paid for any of her tigers, since they were gifts from her husband german trainer louis roth, that call out showing she had no care for her tigers well being an safty, knowing that their would have been a huge risk to her tigers welfare. Yet I showed over 8 photos of majoirty of her tigers in that time periods and they looked no bigger than a large dog at 200-300 pounds, only a few at 400-500, she only had siberian tigers later in her carrier that got large which clyde already past away when he was in his 60's her largest tigers were of only recent 1990's-2000's, yet still they dident even look no bigger than 600 pounds lol even clydes tigers like sabre, gengis, bobby, and more were all way more impressive then mabels tigers, I'd bet his more than 5 siberian tigers would have mopped the floor with any of mabels tigers, not to mention; david hoover had the son of Pharoah.... clydes biggest performing lion... daves lion named John'John who was 714 pounds, an was most likely smaller than his father, Pharoah was also stated to be clydes areana boss, no lion even messed with him even duke and sultan who on two different occaisons whipped every single tiger in his act, I could pollute countless of times clydes lions harrased and beat up clydes tigers, all there is of clyde showing tribute to tigers is Rajah, who he stated could hold his ground, thats not the same as saying he'd win, nor does all the accounts and occaisons the lions chased his tigers like rex, rouge, princess and others up pedastals, oh wait, was that the time you were going to say a bunch of sumatran tigers mauled 9 of clydes lions? ha ah a ha, they never directly fought any lion, they just ran up pedastals and swung in all directions to the lions who were trying to get at them.

More accomplished then clyde beatty?

XD XD XD XD

Show me just one photo.....just one, with these more accomplished trainers of yours mixing over 40 lions and tigers in one cage....show me every single one you just mentioned just haveing half that much in the same cage and a root quota and link to them saying a tiger would whip a lion 9/10.

Bet you cant

The only ones I've seen that stated they'd favor the tiger over the lion, was people in books was Professor haughton; a fraud scientist who stated tigers can reach 18 feet long(thats 6 feet longer than the wolrds longest confirmed tiger) thats way off... and stated are vastly stronger needing an extra 6 men to hold down a tiger in comparison to the lions few, who always quoted edmonds menegeries incident, where a male tiger named nana sahib ripped open a lions stomach, who inverse most quote martials poem of the romans and then state the words everytime, yet when we read martials epigram it only mentioned a staged account, with a single tamed hycranian tiger...not everytime. lol Haughton, martial and Mr jamrochs of edmonds menageire's incident, is on a combined accumilation on over 52 books quoted for, that means majority of the books are based on silly 3 incidents of one phoney self porclaimed biologist, and 2 incidents of staged and weakened lions as stated in there exact abstracts(thats how you fanatics boust out saying all the books state the tiger kills the lion or superior, yet conseal an dont mention its only occaisons) lol the rest are in conjunction useless since you can offer none of there back grounds via history with lions and tiger directly show there crednetials in working with both.

C'mon, I wanna stretch my legs in humilating the lies of the yuku boards, hows P tigris doing? Still making aliases to hide behind the beat down he got, and still using jackjack aka kingthefrauds fake 300 list? Hah a ha, what a bunch of jokes, yet I went ahead and made the tiger killing lions list in chronology and so far theres less then 16, and 70% of them are of male tigers killing female and juvi lions, 20% of them were of staged and rigged fights, like roman proske who stabbed his lion in the face first with a steel fork before the tiger used that oppertunity to kill him, edmonds menagerie lion was past his prime and teeth blunted, martials was staged and programed to have been that way, ankara was a female which I seen a quota from someone who went there an she cut her throat on the fence trying to oprehend the fight, so I will just use google translate and contact the turkish zoo later and get a photo of her, an I even checked John vartys site, and it stated by JV himself along with a photo of the exact same time it happened, and savanah the lioness was attacked by seato Jvs biggest male tiger when she was....sedated, she was darted to check on her status, an in a weaknd state seato attacked and killed her...Huh! The only fair fight through out all of history won by the tiger was baroda, and that tiger died in the process, in the article it states the tiger had alot more wounds and deeper ones too. Thats only one fair fight while the rest all emit in its abstracts unfairness leverages and ambush attacks on lion cibs and females.

Yet clyde beatty, the person you know nothing of other than twisting the facts and consealing all that he said, has more accounts of lions killing tigers than all of history of sources on hand showing a tiger killing a lion, and he is just one of my sources, I have over a hundred other people and occaisons I left there links for the world to view. I have showed quotas of clyde stating...


-How they fight (Show every single one of yours of the same)= You cant.
-has accumilated over 30 accounts of his lions killing his tigers.(show accounst of your alibies haveing death tolls of over 10 tigers killing lions)
-40 years of experince working with both.(show the credntials of how long all of yours have been working with both)
-Has seen them fight with his own two eyes.(show there exact quota via link)
-How they match up statistically(show them mentioning attributes)

C'mon, show me everysingle one of them who you stated are higher than clyde passing just that small test, show their quotes of their experinces watching them fight, show how they think they stack up against the other, show more accounts of them having a tiger kill more lions then clydes toll, show me someone more of an authority than clyde beatty....just one.

I already showed all there root links and quotas via articles and book scans, you havent brought anything but lies, deceptive twisting of facts, consealing the truth and being a fraud, so before we move on, show the proof/evidence to all of what you just claimed, because we both no you cant, let alone show anything credible that extends more then the exposed and exploited yuku team and indragit wordpress losers.

My list is forever growing, your yuku list is forever shrinking.

Originally posted by red clay You forgot "bring em back alive" Frank Buck.  His wild animal compound was just outside Camden NJ in a suburb called Collingswood.  He specialised in big cats.  Wonder if there's anything written on him.

I looked around a bit on Buck, he was friends with clyde, funny Bigbadbrody (or should I say (Big-dumb-lady lol) said that terrel jacobs trained clydes lions, thats just a plain out lie, Frank buck sold some lions to Beatty, but he mainly got the bengal tigers from his pupil an indian man Sahib who caught them all wild, beatty himself cuaght a few tigers with traps; terrell jacobs toured with beatty and nelson, they often would use the same lions and tigers from time to time, but beatty mainly had his own act and broke the record of mixing them in the same arena, twice, the firt time it was 25, the last one was 40, but some newspapers say he got as much as 50, but it needs to be further looked into, Frank buck dident say anything about lions vs tigers but he did comment in a news paper article called Jungle fighters and there attributes and stated along with beatty that bears wouldn't fair well against big cats, also that Clyde beatty mainly used wild specimens: I left the articles on another forum just to pass time an for people to see them, you can view it here:
http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3031296

Interesting that lions killed so many large bears such as grizzlys and polar bears, starting out in the subject I would have never thought that possible, but with the right studying, it all opens up and is quite clear; this looney above is part of the yuku board the way he say'd Stop! like that, could mean its Paul the admin...but I'll have to wait and see how his further grammar comes out since I know them quite well to distinguish whos, who...they have hundreds of alises, but you can tell whos who when you start insulting them lol, they come from a site that has kids polluting the web with photo shop and editing newspapers saying tigers killed lions, since they cant find anything of that manner to match equally; they just make things up, I have shown the proof in how they faked it, the content substance and even the inspiration....funniest thing is I got one of them to admit it, since it was so obvious, he pointed out a account where a single tiger killed 60 lions... thats sixty (not 6/six)...really a single tiger killed that much? Funny, he didn't know who he was talking too, the zeta boards already exploited that part, they just didn't format it so people could know how they did it, so I completed it...the tip of the ice berg was when I became a new member on yuku, he never encountered me or talked to me before, so he tryed to pass it off and get all condesending and contradicting, I presented clydes accounts of the 30 occaisons he accumilated of lions killing tigers, then he says he has the sixty in one crack...then presents it. XD XD XD I show the exploitation in his fake article then he comments...

Oh, I already knew that for Years it was a mistake and lioness2008 pointed it out but I have more

ha ha ha haaa ha, how can you know for years then just pass if off minutes ago? He constantly does that to people he doesnt know, he will hit you off with why do you hate tigers? Yet no one ever remotely degrades the tiger...Why do you lie? when none of us lie, only him; constantly...You are the worst troll fanatic I have ever met, yet said that to already 100 people, how can every single one who favors the lion, be the biggest, the worst, the hugest, the largest, everytime? and yet he has 100 different accounts and aliases that post 80 pound boney starving lions than laughs and mocks them, makes hundreds of phoney photo shoped articles that have all sorts of animals killing lions like leopards, tigers, bears ect and posts them on youtube, he stated on animal enthusiast .com that he hates lions, even making blogs that has the title as if he is a newspaper archive, just copying the head lines, ha ha, hes just leaving them out and just waiting to get sued by those copy write companys...using there logo; brand and editing there content, going under their names as well...this guy garentee's speacializes in idenity theft...thats why I give the credits to the sources I find, and make sure I emit that these are for educational purposes, I edit nothing since copy right infringements can lead to a suing of 250,000 dollars and 25 years in jail if you are promoting there stuff by editing there content without there permission...again, I edit nothing, I present everything as is.

I dont know what the hell is their problem, they lie, use fictional books, cut an paste to conseal the whole abstract, repeat occaisons and say they are different accounts to act like they have alot of individsual cases....all they are is a bunch of butt hurt fanatics, kids almost, making accounts on wiki and providing pro data for the tiger, and using there aliases to erase anyones presenting of a lion winning or something that favours the lion. thats why I left yuku, because paul kept erasing pages of info I typed out, so I said fuk him and I left, and will never go back even if someone paid me a grand. One of the mods kept un-banning me and said to keep posting because the info was good, but once Paul aka P tigris kept coming in he'd erased the exploitation list amoung other stuff, so I told the mod, no thanks, and dont even bother, I didnt wanna be a part of some loser white supremisis skin head cult that burns books to hide the turth, i stated wasnt going back not matter what even though alot of people wanted me back, It will disrupt my honor and dignity lol. Notice how brody doesnt wanna present the links to their root quotas via scans from their books, thats because hes just naming random real animal trainers and saying they favour the tiger, lol Look how he starts it off....Prime...Stop...

Stop what? Is it wrong for me to present quotas, articles, books thats not only relevent to the topic but is esential as well, oh I get it, no one is suppose to know of those, they hid that from the world for going on 7 years now; saying no one favors the lion, all experts...only...favor the tiger, all acounts...only...are of tigers killing lions; all the videos, all statistics, all the artifacts...only favour the tiger. Ha hah ah aaa ha, yeah right.


Thats why in catagories so far I accumilated:

-95 Artifacts of lions defeating tigers from almost every continent(theres only 6 of tigers winning)
-125 modern documents of lions killing tigers(theres only 17 different sources of tigers winning)
-42 animal experts, biologist, natraulist zoologist that favours the lion in a fight with a tiger(theres only 9 with credentials that favor the tiger)
- showed weights proving that on average lions are much heavier from 40 sources
-Showed 50 photographs of lions and tigers in the same shot proving that lions in size is much taller and larger due to his mane by 35% on average.
-Exploited and exposed with evidence/proof their fake list countless of times


and more...bottom line is its all debunkable as soon as you put it in chronological order, you cant cheat that system...and my list is still growing, I havn't the right resources (old computer) nor the time to extend it for now, this will be my last few post for a while, but I will return and finish it or continue to aid the subject later...I haven't even seen the nutruels for a while either, others like myself have just as much if not more data when combined to share, such as Leofwin(science/accounts), Boldchamp(weights/book scans), schamma king(historical consensus/experts), Dalencat(Social and mentality patterns), firestone(healdry/reliegon), lioness 08'(anatomy/physiology), kaos(geography and locations), peter(history/), jeninfordragon(ecology and biology), Asad(the crap load of good photos) they all have there own data that is unique, in other words anyone of them can do what the other does, but from what I witnessed each of them seem to provide the best of the best info in those catagories I labeled next to there names, as I too have collected data of my own and I am more so interested in what artifacts each culture has and who they portrayed winning, I am on the verge in getting almost all of them patended and figuring out their dates and placements, along with books that support them in being true events.

Since...desperate pathetic fanatic queenthefraud, (the guy who was exposed for faking 300 accounts) are just the opposite, Perault, pathrap, paul, jackjack ect all thrive on the fake list on indragit and jackjacksonj website, they hide behind it like their lives depended on it, and will chastize and basically say anything to discredit the overall info when properly examining both, just because he shows a link similar to what hes saying, doesnt mean it proves anything, yet he screams out all day long, British, propaganda, fake, lies, fables, novels, sumatran tiger, sick tiger, small tiger, trash....with no proof, no evidence, in fact hes so desperate, he tryed to confine them all from a stupid book that stated from a critic, 3 artist drew what they did because of the war with the british, so now he draws over everything anyone presents (like some sort of kid or butt hurt loser would) and wirtes on the BRITISH, FAKE, FABLES....lol yet slowly I then present the very artifact he wrote on, and show the credentials that it wasnt british like peitro aqualia, who was italian, like barumus ruthart who was german born in the roman empire, then he switiches it up, saying...but it had nothing to do with a real fight its with the war and are made for fictional implications for propaganda with the church...ha hah ah ha, I thought he said it was british? haha, he'd just say and make up anything, since we know his intentions already from the start, he lied and was caught faking 300 accounts back back...way back in 2006, I came on the scene only recently on the past 2 years, yet only come on every so often, hes on this subject every day of his life XD, hes the biggest liar and loser I have ever seen, who the fuk does that?

But anyways, thanks for allowing the data to be a part of this forum,an my bad if I'm a little to blunt and straight foward...but I think it fits with the forums theme...mainly the historical parts, I will fix the others I illustrated poorly on later when I get a new computer and dont worry about the links I provided thats broken, Bold champs re-news the bandwith from time to time, so it will eventually reboot, and or later I can get my hands on different links to the quotas and scans from the refferences of the books and grow the list.


^_^

Don't mind the data, all I ask is that you lighten up some on the folks from other sites.  Yuku is Yuku, what goes on there is their problem.

A good starting place

The fights taken place here are all in wild, this bout would be of one of the largest sub-speices of tigers the bengal vs the smallest sub-species of lions Leo Persica aka the Indian/Asiatic lion:



Small asiatic lion stale mates huge Prime bengal tiger:

Stalked By Two Wild Beasts.—An Exciting Combat.


E This feeling began to go away in about fifteen minutes, and I was just congratulating myself on my lucky escape, when I turned my eyes to the north, or towards camp. The sight thrilled me like an electric shock. Close beside the wall, on the left-hand side, was a tiger, a rousing big fellow, who had seen fifteen years of life. On the right-hand side, and also close to the base of the walls, was a medinm-sized male lion, and the attitude of both plainly showed that they had been stalking me. It was a still hunt, and I was the victim. The lion had come out of the bush to the right, and the tiger had come out of a thicket to the left and crossed the creek. Neither animal could have seen the other, and thus they were not aware of each other's presence.

When I got sight of the beasts the lion had half turned, as if to sneak away, while the tiger was crouched against the wall, and seemed shamefaced. Had I risen up and swung my hat and yelled, both would have bolted; but I must confess that, taking my pain and the general situation into account, I was badly rattled. I couldn't think just what ought to be done, and, therefore, did nothing. This, after a moment, encouraged the beasts, and then came such a situation as few men were ever placed in. I had an opportunity to see here a lion and a tiger approach a victim waiting to be struck down.

I have wondered a thousand times what could have come over me, to sit there with my gun within reach and my revolver in its holster, and make not the slightest move to save my life, while those fierce brutes crept nearer and nearer. I think the poison benumbed and stupefied me to a certain extent. That is, while my brain was never more active, nor my eyesight keener, I felt helpless to move, and my mouth was as dry as if I had a fever. I knew my peril as fully as anyone could; but, when I thought of grasping my rifle and sighting it, the exertion required discouraged me.

The lion was the bolder of the two. After making up his mind that I could not harm him, he held his head well up, swung his tail about, and advanced at a slow pace. I was under cover, and he might have suspected a trap. But for this he would, probably, have made a rush. The tiger displayed exactly the same characteristics as a cat Creeping upon her prey. He crept, crawled, twisted about, and sought to shelter his body behind the slightest tuft of grass. He did not, however, take his eyes off me for the tenth of a second, and the nearer he came the more his great lips parted to show his yellow teeth.

By-and-by the lion was almost at the end of the wall, and near enough for his spring. He crouched down, switched his tail in a menacing way, and I plainly saw his talons dig into the earth as he gathered his muscles for a great effort. While there was a settled determination on his part to make food of me, there was a certain trepidation in his general demeanor. It was plain that he was mystified, but his ferocious nature prevailed.

The tiger kept abreast of the lion, and he was the first to take the alarm. He evidently scented the lion, for he reared up, snuffed the air, and then flung out a paw and spat like an angry cat. This noise startled the lion, and he rose up, showed his teeth, and took his eyes off me for the first time. Either animal could easily have leaped the wall, but neither attempted it. The tiger took on a fiercer look, and dropped some of his stealth, but the lion reached the end of the wall first, uttering a roar of defiance, and evidently expecting to meet an enemy. The tiger was four or five feet from the end of the wall, and the move he made was so quick that my eyes could not follow it. As the lion's head showed around the wall, the big cat made a lightning spring, and, the next instant, the two were rolling over and over at my feet, fighting as only such beasts can fight, and growling in a manner to make my hair turn gray.

It was then that strength came back to me, and I rose up; but, instead of rushing away, I ran back into the building. Reaching the rear wall, I stood there, a prisoner and spectator. The first clinch lasted about three \ninutes, and was characterized by such ferocity as I cannot describe. While the lion and the tiger are, probably, natural

enemies, I suppose the fact that both had planned to make meat of me, and both felt themselves disappointed, aroused all their ferocity. Most of the time during the first clinch they were rolling over and aver like a big ball, tearing, biting and growling, and the movements of the tiger were much the quicker.

They finally separated, each backed off a few feet, and each stood broadside to me. I could see half a dozen blood-stains on the lion's side, while the tiger had been terribly bitten about the neck, and there was a bloody scratch on his quarter. They faced each other for about a minute, the lion roaring a deep bass, and the tiger snarling like an enraged cat. Then, as swift as a flash of lightning, the tiger bounded through space and alighted on the lion's back, and again they rolled and tumbled about. The fight was too fierce to be kept up long, and too determined not to result in serious injuries.

When the beasts finally struggled to their feet, the tiger had hold of the lion just back of the fore shoulder, and he hung there and worried the king as a dog would a sheep. Twice the lion yelped out as if he had lost his courage, but he suddenly made a grand exertion, broke the tiger's hold, and then turned and caught him by the neck. I thought all was over with the cat. The lion actually lifted him clear of the ground and shook him, and this time the tiger whined. After a bit, however, he twisted his body around until his hind claws came into play, and then the lion had to let go.

There was another rest for a minute or so, and again the tiger was the aggressive party. This time they fought more like dogs, neither seeming able to down the other, and they kept working away from the building toward the creek. I advanced as they retreated, and they were still doing their best to destroy each other, when they rolled off the bank into the creek. Each was covered with blood from nose to tail, and the injuries inflicted must have been serious. The tumble into the water separated them, and while the tiger reached the opposite bank at one spot, the lion crawled out at another thirty feet away, and both limped into the forest without the slightest desire to renew the fight.
http://books.google.com/books?id=idIRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA362&dq=lion+tiger+fight+separated&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aYJUUshvyqmKAozggBA&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBA


Smaller asiatic lion kills larger bengal tiger:

31’st of March, 1851, In the “Landshuter Zeitung” (“Landshut Newspaper”)

A drama at the Ganges.

I’ll tell of one of these terrible fights, one you wouldn’t see again in a hundred years, a scene of blood and death that forever will haunt my mind. […] The lion and his rival, the tiger, need air and space in great quantity. Here, and only here, are they really able to live and to rule. […] (A long description of lions and tigers and how fierce both of them are, the actual event follows now) A Malayan slave ran towards us and shouted: “Lion! Lion! Down there, at the river! It’s a big, fierce lion!”

“One more reason to take shelter in the house,” continued the colonel. “Come, my friends, take the weapons! The lion is a troublesome guest.”

We closed the house’s doors; the slaves got weapons and guarded the basement. We, to welcome this guest admirably, climbed up to the gallery from which we could overlook the Ganges. An unusually big lion walked haughtily down there, not looking around as he does when he has to fight an opponent, but instead ambling slowly and thoughtfully like a philosopher, he walked there. He stopped from time to time to rest a minute, and then continued majestically his way. Under a magnificent palm, he stopped, turned around two times, and finally lay down in the shadow. This was the rest of a magnificent ruler that had nothing to fear from any adversary. He rested easily, as do those who have made no enemies.

Scarcely ten minutes had the lion lain there, when suddenly, he jumped up as though struck by lightning, roaring very deeply and scratching the ground with both hind legs, as though challenging an adversary. He lowered his head and, in a single bound, jumped at the palm’s stem to look about, to the right and left. Then he jumped down to ground to wait again, and his gaze lingered at one particular spot on the horizon.

“An enemy seems to approach,” the colonel said, “a terrible enemy, if we look at the lion’s reaction. I predict that it will be a fierce fight, and many rich people would pay a great sum to see it if they were here right now.”

“And why,” I asked, “don’t they stage some fights from time to time, if they would pay so much?”

“Because what we have here is very rare. The lion won’t fight against a human but against a fierce animal, one as strong as he himself, such as a rhinoceros, an elephant, or a tiger.”

“A tiger! It’s really a tiger!” one of us shouted pointing a finger at the dangerous beast which jumped in huge leaps towards the lion. It was breathtaking, our eyes wandered from the lion to the tiger and from the tiger to the lion. The lion still was lurking. It was a terrible spectacle and we wagered who will win. Now they stood eyeball to eyeball with each other. They’d seen each other and wouldn’t leave unless one of them was lying dead at the ground. The tiger was unbelievably huge and beautiful with his long black stripes distributed all over his yellowish body. His fearful eyes seemed to burn, his head was lowered. We stood, at the most, 200 feet away. The sun shone brightly, so we could see their every move. I don’t think I have to mention that our hearts were in our mouths. The tiger closed in on the lion, but the lion remained calm. In the latter, we could see the force of the calmness in his powerful position; in the tiger, one could believe to see the violent tension of someone who has the impudence to disrespect a close danger, one who had the will to assault it. We could see a certain twitch in his legs, but he wasn’t about to flee. Did the crouching tiger want to kill the lion? I believe it did, and I admire the royal tiger’s courage, he would rather lie down in a burning furnace than be accused of cowardice!

The lion had not moved at all, but we could see what was happening inside him by looking at his erected mane. From time to time, his countenance suggested a submissive gesture. But he, the king of animals, didn’t want to show any fear, but rather boldness, to his opponent. A duel was now inevitable. For the tiger it may be a glorious day, but for the lion it was certainly a festive day.

With one leap, they could grab, bite, tear each other; with one leap they’d jump over the space of 20 feet that separated them from each other. Then, they leaped! The crash equaled the crash of two ships in a tempest! We could hear the bones breaking under the weight of their terrible paws, we could see chunks of flesh falling to the ground. They made no sound, but their gruff moaning indicated their rage and pain. Neither showed superiority and we wondered who would win. If the lion were to think that he had overpowered the tiger, the latter could earn the victory with a single move, shattering the surprised lion.

The fight now lasted 10 minutes, and suddenly, as if they came to an agreement, both loosened their grip to gain their breath again. It was the motionlessness of the rage, but it was the calmness of the king. A few moments later, an unexpected incident which resurrected the fight took place: The tiger, which saw not only his defeat but also his death, used the moment. While his opponent was licking his wounded hind leg, he leaped 10 feet up the palm’s stem and stayed there. The lion looked around and couldn’t see his foe anymore; he roared, looked upwards, and he jumped at the tiger. But in this position it was impossible to continue the fight. They knew that only one of them would survive. The tiger jumped down and the lion followed him, but his leg caused him to shiver. A long fight wasn’t possible any more. Their claws were blunted, their jaws were tired, and they had lost much blood.

The fighters’ jaws were wedged in each other as they bit at each others’ heads; we could feel the bones crushing. Suddenly the tiger retreated, wavered and fell down. The lion seized him with his terrible paws and it seemed like he wanted to punish the defeated opponent for his resistance.

He didn’t loosen his grip, the merciless king of the forest, the feared lord of the wilderness; he tore the tiger apart, he crushed its skull. Suddenly a crocodile appeared out of the river. It seized the lion at his injured hind leg and dragged him into the water. The only remains of this fight were the dead tiger under the palm and some read streams of blood on the water surface.


Translated from German to English by Leofwin:
http://books.google.de/books?id=ghtEAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA50&dq=l%C3%B6we+tiger+kampf&hl=de&ei=aSZETeLmFYTAswbU6IHVDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=l%C3%B6we%20tiger%20kampf&f=false-

A quick fact check on the geography's location, via maps, shows that this incident was indeed in the area where lions once lived of the past 17th-18th century, so the credability of its substance is highly credible.




These two accounts, along with another from the ballou magazine (Indian/British Newspaper archive) has it as two were seen fighting in the jungle and shot dead, before they died of the bullets the lion was seen on top of the tiger biting his throat, so most likely the lion was going to be the victor half an half of the tiger getting out of the hold. Those few accounts so far proves, even with a slight weight advantage, toppled with the tiger faster movements and slight leverages being the more agile cat did not and does not over rule the lions superior fighting tactics, durability and power. In other words a african lion is all the more superior to the asiatic lion, so he will on more occaisons be the victor.