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Which country in ww2 kicke the most......
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Posts: 412 		  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which country in ww2 kicke the most......
    Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 05:38
Originally posted by Dilvish

Originally posted by Feanor

Soviet Russia was the true winner of the war. US comes as the second.
I dont think russia did a lot they only fought in the last 1 or 2 years of the war, the germans where already scrutinized from incoming troops from Normandy.



May be you meant USA.They fought really 1 or 2 years of the war.Americans always say that they are the real winner and contributed most for the allies victory.But i tell yoi something.Money are not enough to win a war.Americans werent those who spilled the blood of its people.You must admit that russians did the dirty job.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 05:54
Originally posted by Dilvish

or they could have finshed of britain at least before they headed towards russia
 
Dream on.
 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 05:56
Originally posted by Aleksandr01


Australia did a lot of fighting in Europe
 
????
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 05:58
Originally posted by Dilvish

dont think russia did a lot they only fought in the last 1 or 2 years of the war
 
If this thread has done nothing else it has shown that an awful lot of people need to do some basic homework.
 
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Posts: 681 		  Quote Gargoyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 08:35

Originally posted by Dilvish

what did aussies do in the war?


Dear Dilvish,

Have a quick read through the following, so in future you may be better informed of Austrlia's efforts during the second world war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_World_War_II



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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 08:42
Originally posted by Gargoyle


Originally posted by Dilvish

what did aussies do in the war?


Dear Dilvish,

Have a quick read through the following, so in future you may be better informed of Austrlia's efforts during the second world war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_World_War_II




Thankyou Gargoyle, If no one else was, I was going to tell him myself...a bit much history channel dilvish? Tongue
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 10:23
This thread is an embarrasment to anyone who knows history.  The lack of even basic knowledge of WWII is astounding.  Except for gcle, you all get 2000 negative points for being unprepared for class.LOL
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 1791 		  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 10:47
Originally posted by red clay

This thread is an embarrasment to anyone who knows history.  The lack of even basic knowledge of WWII is astounding.  Except for gcle, you all get 2000 negative points for being unprepared for class.LOL
 
What, even I get to be in that category?
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
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Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 11:02
Sorry Decebal, I missed you and gargoyle.  Guess I should have taken roll first.Big%20smile
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 16:41
And I'm in that category toooo! Cry Noooo!
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 15:26
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten

Originally posted by Dilvish

for some reason ive always been completely disappointed about the way the japs and nazis' ended the war, the germans where doing the right thing, they where getting pawned from the west from american forces landing on France so they headed east and decided to pawn russian soldiers to see if they can develop a strong position their and maintain it enough time to recruit more troops for at least a while. I'm pretty sure hitler was expecting some type of help form japan to help them maintain russia for some time. While their here they can train enough time not to get their asses kicked by the allies but enough time to mass the troops somewhwhere in western russia to regain control of europe.

 
This is how i picture hitler's "retreat and regroup plan", but it never happened
 
By the way im not endorsing ww2 im just stating my perfect fantasy backup situation for Hitler's conquest of Europe and asia and eventually the world
 
Is there an area on this side where fantasy plots of specific wars are plotted to change the outcome of a particular point in time?, If there isn't, a page liek this should be started.
 
The germans did the right thing ?
 
to slaughter half of europe, send many people into the gas-chambers, cheat their own people and the rest of the world, is the right way ?
don't have any understanding for such a crap you wrote down, even if you might be young and unknowing.
Many people before you and i guess many people in the past try to trivialise the nazi terror, the massacres the german Wehrmacht did and the dupability of the german people. But as long i'm on this earth, i will answer back this kind of belittlement.
 
 
In terms of military, Germans did the right thing. I don't agree with Nazi Germany's ideology, but soldiers are not trained for that. Their job is to ensure the survival of Germany and obey the orders. Simple as that.
 
I understand that the Soviets did great things that changed the tide of war... but come on people. How many men did it take to simply get Germans out Russian land?
 
Germans' Operation Barbarossa was amazing. Their adavnce was so rapid that Stalin practically thought that all Red Guards betrayed him in the beginning. (Oh, him and his parniod)
 
Germans' brilliant commanders knew that Russians could be beaten, after knowing how weak the Soviet military is... but Hitler just could not let the generals to handle the situation. He personally got involved with the operation and messed things up. He divided the German armies to split in 3 and attack Leningrad (St. Petersburg), Moscow, and Caucaus Mountain at the same time. For goodness sake, their army was already small comapred to Russian army. But wait, he could not just settle with that. He had to stop the Germans for getting the oil. He had to send the third army to Stalingrad, where much of Russian armies were stationed. Plus, more troops were transferred from conscription and from Far East. When Germans were being surrounded by Russians... Hitler ordered the Germans to maintain their position at all cost. He's kidding, right? Run and regroup, for crying aloud!
 
Battle of Kursk... well, it's as if God used cheat code so that Germans lose in the end. Germans showed some promise, then Hitler declares retreat. Mein Gott, what the hell is wrong with him???
 
And why in God's name did Hitler not give any reinforcement to Rommel in Africa, who is arguably the greatest general in WWII. He literally pushed the British and French forces back, and Cairo could have been easily taken. If Hitler gave just a division to Rommel, he could have got Egypt, and even push into Middle East for the a raw material that Germans really needed. Oil. They could have secured world's oil supply, threaten the Allies with shortage of oil, and the the power of Axis may have won the war.
 
Gott, I wish I was Hitler. He was once lucky kid, but he throw it away. How tragic. 
     
   
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Posts: 1869 		  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 15:59
Originally posted by pekau

I understand that the Soviets did great things that changed the tide of war... but come on people. How many men did it take to simply get Germans out Russian land?

Russians suffered the heaviest casualties. If you do not know this, then you do not know anything about World War II.
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Posts: 33 		  Quote Aleksandr01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 23:04
Originally posted by pekau

Germans' brilliant commanders knew that Russians could be beaten, after knowing how weak the Soviet military is... but Hitler just could not let the generals to handle the situation. He personally got involved with the operation and messed things up. He divided the German armies to split in 3 and attack Leningrad (St. Petersburg), Moscow, and Caucaus Mountain at the same time. For goodness sake, their army was already small comapred to Russian army. But wait, he could not just settle with that. He had to stop the Germans for getting the oil. He had to send the third army to Stalingrad, where much of Russian armies were stationed. Plus, more troops were transferred from conscription and from Far East. When Germans were being surrounded by Russians... Hitler ordered the Germans to maintain their position at all cost. He's kidding, right? Run and regroup, for crying aloud!

Hitler had plenty of troops and it was a good tactical decision of him to split his army into three groups. Where he went wrong was spending too many recources and troops in the South instead of concentrating on Moscow like his generals advised. Once he split his Southern Army into two groups (one to sprint into the Caucasus and one to conquer Stalingrad and set up a blockade there for the Russian army headed south to the Caucasus), that's when Zhukov began to move his army south to meet Hitler at Stalingrad.
When Hitler was finally defeated, he tried to hold out a little longer and beat back the Russians one last time so that they might have a stalemate and he could keep the territories he conquered. If he had retreated, it wouldn't have been much help. His army was broken and battered and regrouping would not be easy, especially when there's a million mad Russians chasing after you!

Originally posted by pekau

 
Battle of Kursk... well, it's as if God used cheat code so that Germans lose in the end. Germans showed some promise, then Hitler declares retreat. Mein Gott, what the hell is wrong with him???

The Russians had the Germans in their clutches throughout the whole battle. They pushed on their north flank while the mine fields and machine guns in the south kept the German panzers at bay. When the Germans stretched out their forces enough, the Russians began to push them back steadily until they retreated.


Edited by Aleksandr01 - 24-Jan-2007 at 23:08
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 23:34
Originally posted by Feanor

Originally posted by pekau

I understand that the Soviets did great things that changed the tide of war... but come on people. How many men did it take to simply get Germans out Russian land?

Russians suffered the heaviest casualties. If you do not know this, then you do not know anything about World War II.
 
Any fool can send people to die. Yes, I am aware of Russian casualties. I was concentrating on the effectiveness of armies... though.
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 23:42
Alekandr01, Germans had far superior communication system than Russians did. Germans are known for mobility and their capability to adapt to the environment. I am pretty sure that clueless Russians would give enough time for Germans to regroup... and even enough time for Germans to counterattack. I am dead serious. Russian military was horrible in the beginning of war. They improved, but they would not be able to show their full potential until Germans were attacked by all Allied forces.
 
Many say that Russians beat the Germans in the Battle of Kursk. This is a popular misconception. Their causalties were quite similar, their starting tank numbers were similar. It's true that Russians had tons of tank mines, but many Russian tanks simply broke down in the middle of battle. Plus, many Russian infantry were massacred by German infantry, tanks, artillery and Russian tanks. (Many Russians don't drive well, especially when their tanks usually malfunctioned.
 
Germans received strategic position and were prepared to make a counterattack... but Hitler was getting worried about the African front. The Allies pushed the Germans and Italians out of Africa, and the rumors of Allied forces making major landing operations in Italy alerted Hitler. He ordered much of German tanks to pull back, which was disasterous. Many Soviet tanks were damaged, but many had thick enough armors so that many could be repaired... something that Germans could not have.
     
   
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Posts: 33 		  Quote Aleksandr01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 16:18
But the German army was already tired and had little morale left, while the Russians had plenty of fresh troops at the front lines to chase the Germans while they try to regroup. It would be pretty hard for them to retreat and reform their army with the Russians right on their tail, nevermind a counterattack.
Anyway, the Germans had fortified positions in the East, such as Dnepropetrovsk, Kursk, and Smolensk, and giving those up to recapture them later would be useless. It was easier for them to take a defensive standpoint and try to hold out their positions.

The Germans were never prepared to make any counterattack. The Russian counterattack at Orel in the north was a decisive turning point in the battle, which forced the Germans to retreat. That enabled the southern army to regroup and counterattack together with the rest of the Red Army, and they forced the germans to retreat back the Dnieper river.
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 17:38

I would say Russians. But there is no reason to underestimate American and British achievements. As, btw, Russians do Wink 
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 19:49
Originally posted by Aleksandr01

But the German army was already tired and had little morale left, while the Russians had plenty of fresh troops at the front lines to chase the Germans while they try to regroup. It would be pretty hard for them to retreat and reform their army with the Russians right on their tail, nevermind a counterattack.
Anyway, the Germans had fortified positions in the East, such as Dnepropetrovsk, Kursk, and Smolensk, and giving those up to recapture them later would be useless. It was easier for them to take a defensive standpoint and try to hold out their positions.

The Germans were never prepared to make any counterattack. The Russian counterattack at Orel in the north was a decisive turning point in the battle, which forced the Germans to retreat. That enabled the southern army to regroup and counterattack together with the rest of the Red Army, and they forced the germans to retreat back the Dnieper river.
 
Russians did not attack immediately after Germans retreated. In fact, they couldn't do anything until their war factories began to recover and when Allied power began to lend (give away) the weapons, food and machines that would multiply what Russians were producing already.
 
We know that merely a sheer number of army does not always bring a good result. WWI would be an excellent example. Russians had probably more than triple the number of German troops in the Eastern Front, but they were the first to collapse. The Shliffen Plan went the opposite. France did not fall in few weeks, Russia did.
 
Germans could have counter attack easily. Even if Germans did not want to, Hitler would have forced them anyway. (His hatred towards Slavik people was only second to his hatred against the Jews) He was getting extremely nervious with Western and African front that he pulled many soldiers and tanks back. His parionide ruined Nazi Germany. Concentrate and attack a single weakest point. Hitler obvious did not learn this. Only his generals did.
 
Well, capturing Kursk is indeed meaningless. A famous story tells how meaningless the Battle of Kursk was.
 
The brilliant armor strategist Heinz Guderian once asked Hitler "Was it really necessary to attack Kursk and indeed in the East that year at all. Do you think anyone even knows where Kursk is?" to which Hitler agreed with him saying, "I know. The thought of it turns my stomach."
 
Got this from http://zhukov.mitsi.com/Kursk.htm. Great website, by the way.
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 19:52
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Dilvish

or they could have finshed of britain at least before they headed towards russia
 
Dream on.
 
 
Not so. If German Luffaffe concentrated on war factories, air force bases, radars and other things vital to increase Britain's defense instead of bombarding London... Germans may have secured the pathway for German land forces to land in Britain. Once that happens, Britain is finished.
     
   
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 05:03
 
Originally posted by pekau

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Dilvish

or they could have finshed of britain at least before they headed towards russia
 
Dream on.
 
 
Not so. If German Luffaffe concentrated on war factories, air force bases, radars and other things vital to increase Britain's defense instead of bombarding London...
They started bombing London (and other cities) at night because they had failed when they tried the rest.
 
Check out the current thread on the Battle of Britain. It was a decisive British victory, and was always going to be. When the defensive side has superior weaponry, superior numbers, superior production capacity and the superior tactical situation[1], the defence tends to win whatever.
 
[1] for instance, British and allied pilots that were shot down were mostly quickly available to fly again. Luftwaffe ones ended up as prisoners of war.
 
 
Germans may have secured the pathway for German land forces to land in Britain. Once that happens, Britain is finished.
Like I said, dream on....
 
"I do not say, my Lords, that the French will not come. I say only they will not come by sea". Earl St Vincent, 1801.
 
A century and a half later the Royal Navy was still there, and the addition of the Royal Air Force only meant that you could substitute Germany for France and add 'air' to 'sea'.
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 26-Jan-2007 at 05:12
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