Jewish Nation in Khazar

I would object to the use of the term "jewish nation", since the khazars, while converted to the jewish religion, were actually turkic. Anyway, I believe that they were dealt a massive blow by the Kievan Rus in the early 11th century, and then their remains were finally anihilated by the mongols.

Why would you object to the use of the term 'Jewish nation'? The Khazars while their ethnicity may have been Turkish, were Jewish converts. I was not referring to their ethnicity at all, but their religion. I understand that the Khazar Jews were not Arabic in appearance.

Thats interesting. And I had heard about that claim but feel its not my place to commentate as my knowledge of Judaism is virtually nowt. 

Originally posted by Decebal I think a more proper term would be judaic (or even mosaic) rather than jewish, because jewish has an ethnic connotation, whereas judaic refers strictly to the religion. This would help avoid the confusion. You may or may not know this, but there is a controversial theory out there which asserts that Ashkenazi jews are not jews at all, but khazars. This theory has not been proven and many jews consider it antisemitic. Anyway, while I don't take offense personally, not being jewish, others might be offended at the implication that khazars are jews.

Well thats because most Jews today are Ashenazi Jews (80% khazars) and that would prevent them from legitimately laying claim to the land of Israel. Its been well hidden so far from the majority of the public opinion but how long will it be hidden remains to be seen.

I think vulkan is alluding to the fact that Ashkenazis are not semites, hence no claim. Yet they will pass themselves off as semites. Imagine if a german or turkish jew says that he was semite, or a black man pass himself off as chinese and start claiming Hunan province.

The Khazars were dealt their first major blow by the expanding Rus in the 9th century, their decline continued for quite some time when it was finally internal discord and Penechegs that did them in.

Originally posted by Denis Why would you object to the use of the term 'Jewish nation'? The Khazars while their ethnicity may have been Turkish, were Jewish converts. I was not referring to their ethnicity at all, but their religion. I understand that the Khazar Jews were not Arabic in appearance.

Edited by Tar Szer�nd - 05-Jan-2007 at 09:10

Personally I see no sense in who claims what debate.  First of all, Jews as a people NEVER left the land of Israel, never.  There were always a considerable population of Jews in Israel after their exile.  So to say that Jews just left and never lived there for 2000 years and wandered around is not wholly true, and it implies it as if Jews chose to wander around the world. 

And I should also say again what others have said that Jews have a right to the land not just from ancestry but also from arms.  Arabs have no more right to the land than Jews, since they also conquered the land in the 600's AD.  The Jews immigrated back, and took it back, with very little help from the outside.  In fact, I believe that the Jews did not need any confirmation from the UN or any other nation to declare their own independence, they would have done it themselves either way.  Although Balfour made a declaration, it was not because of this that England left, they left simply because of the burden of colonialism, and the pressure by both Arabs and Israelis.  Therefore, once they left, it was inevitable that the Jews would declare their independence, with or without the support of the UN, and subsequently earn it by winning their war of independence.

Now, in light of this, if we are still going to question their right to the land, we might as well question EVERY nation's right to their land.  Our very own America was created through conquest of other people's land, and we should be questioned even more.  The same can be said for every Muslim country, who became Muslim and Arab through the conquest and expansion of Muhammad from Arabia. 

Secondly, I should remind that a considerable amount of Jews in Germany and Central Europe came from Spain during the Inquisition.  And before that, they were in Israel. 




Edited by Amirsan - 05-Jan-2007 at 22:39

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Your use of the word independence sickens me, it wasn't the arab jews who remained in palestine all these years that refused to live with their neighbours.

Edited by Cryptic - 06-Jan-2007 at 09:43

I think someone said it before, they didn't want to "take sides" between Christian and Islamic empires that surrounded them, so they weirdly picked Judaism as a "neutral" religion.