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One World Govt

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malizai_ View Drop Down
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: One World Govt
    Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 19:43

I was really heartened to see the optimism that some people shared in a possible One World Govt in the other thread about mankind's future. Although i realize that on a different forum with a different crowd a totally different result can be yielded.

However i would like to explore the practical aspects of such a state structure. So i will start with my own opinion, we are all too aware of the conflicts around us, the disparity in wealth and imbalance in human rights, etc.
 
Brainstorm:
We share common values yet are willing to freeze some of those values out of conflict of interests.
 
Those interests are usually translated as:
  • resources(build a shelter)
  • energy(fire to keep u warm)
  • Food and water(To keep you alive)
  • Income(commerce, market, trade--to ensure the above)
  • Security(To counter threat from the other to any of the above)
 
Definitions of the other:
  • Racial
  • political
  • Historical
  • Ideological(religious(Christianity, Islam, Atheism), Darwinian(Capitalism,communism,humanism))
 
Threats:
  • Environment
  • Others
  • Disease
Actual threats:
 
  • Environment
  • Disease
 
Since threats from other is really a form of competiton.
 
I would say that the greatest threat to global unity would be ideological. The greatest unifying force would be environment. I would like to explore the ideological other first.  So if hypothetically everyone agreed in principle to a 'One World Govt'(OWG), how can we reconcile the different ideologies on the table.  
 
PLEASE CONSTRUCT YOUR THOUGHTS FULLY BEFORE REPLYING. THXS.
 
If anything needs be revised or i have overlooked/got wrong just add in your post with clarification.
 
 
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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 20:18
The ONLY way a one world government would come into being would be through blood. The blood of millions would be required to form a OWG, and millions more would die sustaining it. Destroying all competing ideologies is the only way I can see the OWG being able to survive.

People are mainly concerned with regional/local issues. Most people don't care what happens on the other side of the world. As a result of this focus on regionalism/localism, I don't see how a government could manage say, a province in....Somalia, and a province in New York.

Now, if Somalia and New York both had the same values and beliefs, then a OWG may work, but that would only happen through war, one ideology completely destorying and replacing another.


Edited by Adalwolf - 26-Dec-2006 at 20:22
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 20:27
One world government can only be achieved through facism and extreme centralization of power where the population is kept under control.  I think the US is heading in this direction, and no doubt it will soon take over the whole world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT_ZqCH8TW4

Edited by bg_turk - 26-Dec-2006 at 20:29
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 20:35

I am talking about accommodating ideological differences, present and  those that may arise in the future and not an eliminationShocked. Certainly not by force, the whole point is to coexist peacefully, otherwise it will just be an imperialism of sorts. The Jewish faith is a testimony to the fact that ideologies will survive persecution and attempted assimilation by force. Look at post communism CIS countries in case of Muslims, or the Donmeh in case of the Jews. People will always create new ones or will change between. NO BLOOD!!! thank you very much.

The whole point is to reduce the 'other' footprint to reduce conflict to the smallest possible denominator.
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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 20:40
Originally posted by malizai_

I am talking about accommodating ideological differences, present and  those that may arise in the future and not an eliminationShocked. Certainly not by force, the whole point is to coexist peacefully, otherwise it will just be an imperialism of sorts. The Jewish faith is a testimony to the fact that ideologies will survive persecution and attempted assimilation by force. Look at post communism CIS countries in case of Muslims, or the Donmeh in case of the Jews. People will always create new ones or will change between. NO BLOOD!!! thank you very much.

The whole point is to reduce the 'other' footprint to reduce conflict to the smallest possible denominator.


The only way to of a one world government is through blood! I made that clear in my first post. I see NO other way that would work. The other ways may allow for the creation of a OWG, but one that would fracture and fall apart quickly.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 20:59
Originally posted by bg_turk

One world government can only be achieved through facism and extreme centralization of power where the population is kept under control.  I think the US is heading in this direction, and no doubt it will soon take over the whole world. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT_ZqCH8TW4
 
 
People will tolerate everything except oppression, especially from fellow idealogues. This kind of OWG will be the shortest lived. I am hoping for one with publics will.


Edited by malizai_ - 26-Dec-2006 at 21:15
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  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 21:05
I doubt that it will ever happen.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 19:27
Top opening post Malizai!

As Adalwolf said, people are most interested in local issues, this I think is a major advantage in forming a One World Government. In fact, I argue that this has infact been done before. Of course, the whole globe was not united under one government, but any empire that spanned a huge amount of land, with innumerous different ethinic groups inside them has already shown us the way. Take the Roman Empire, is not a Gaul and a Egyptian as far apart (if not more) as a Somali and an American? Many Somalis are living in america, and frequently return to somalia. How many Gauls were living in Egypt before the OW government? Effectively none.

Communication and travel now allow the centralisation in a never seen before situtation. If country A could control country B, which takes months even to get a letter to, let alone an army. Then surely it is possible to control countries now where we can send messages instantly.

What is the world now, except a One World Government (america), a series of vassal states, and rebellious frontiers?

As for the 'other' you only need to make sure that people are more preoccupied with local issues.
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 22:19

Thxs Omar.

I agree with your point on communication, technology and travel, their advancement make things much much easier. I cant remember the last time i went to the bank, since everything can get done over the phone and online.
 
Empires however have a very different political fabric from the proposed OWG , they are by their nature authoritarian and indifferent towards the people. The Romans did not have equality amongst all the dwellers within their realm, there were ofcourse subjects and citizens, which is a source of conflict. In OWG the onus is on minimized competition for essential resources, giving equal rights and market access to all.
 
I was envisaging a more modular system, a hierarchal layers of controls, with the main functions of the center would be dealing with issues like the distribution of resources, than say dictating what tv chanels u should watch. Say for example Country A has pools of fresh water resources but little cultivatable land, Country B relies on the water from A to grow crops. Country A uses leverage to get terms with B to source money/food for its own population. It could result in a conflict, right!. OWG decides from the very outset what the minimum rights are and distributes 'essential' resources equally along with any derived benefit. So if country B yields more produce than A needs, then it will still share the surplus produce with A proportional to both their populations.
 
Some would argue that the lack of competition will grind things to a halt in fields like technolgy an science. But if you replace the threat and start competing with the environment and diseases to improve your life and standard of living then we still have a positive competition. After all the first human that lit the flame and used the fire for warmth and food did not do so out of competition. Sports attempt to pacify some of our animal instincts vis a vis fellow humans, and channel that energy quite successfully.


Edited by malizai_ - 27-Dec-2006 at 22:23
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 23:26
I would disagree with Malizai's assertion that the greatest threat (and greatest obstacle) to global unity is ideology.  I think the greatest obstacle would simply be economics if you want to call it that.  No wealthy nation is going to want to join a OWG that will take more of their money and give it to poorer countries which, in their view at least, did not earn the money and when there are other things they want to spend the money on.  Poorer countries are not going to join a OWG which will not promise them much money and instead leave them vulnerable to the power of the wealthier nations.
 
Simply put, people want resources and most don't want to share.  No species in nature (or at least most of them, there might be some very odd exception I've never heard of) care for their species as a whole, only a small group of them.  I don't think humans have evolved past that fact.


Edited by Genghis - 27-Dec-2006 at 23:29
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 23:30
One world Govt=more control over people, more effective management of capital...So it would be a system where the governors, bureaucrats and other "influential contacts" may get all the wealth..Even more exploitation..
 
It would be a fine dream otherwise...A place where all the people live in peace, harmony and friendship bla bla bla...Though it is just a dream.
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we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 15:23
consider the fact that there are over 6.5 billion people on the planet, world domination would be impossible.
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  Quote Denis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 10:55
I don't see how one huge federal government is implausible. Would you not agree that a ultimate constitution is necessary to protect international rights? Take for example the global capital is in Bucharest. If the federal government of Uruguay misbehaved by fixing the state elections, the ultimate constitution in Bucharest would mean that legally, the Uruguayan election fixers would be immediately arrested by the international police. Just a thought really.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 11:47
One world government?
 
And who is going to be the president? Putin or Bush? LOL
 
Perhaps the better way is to give more power to the U.N., to form an international army coallition, and to strenght international law instead of military or economical power.
 
But a single government could be a nightmare under the hands of a dictator.
 
Penguin
 
 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 12:06
SubjectTopic: One World Govt
 
What about 'separation of global power' and 'checks & balances' - don't we still need those things?  Isn't it a bit risky to give 1 regime (gov't) control of the planet?  I'd rather see something like the U.N. but more functional.
 
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 13:10
'One world anything' is too much control in the hands of a few. Kind of sounds like us, lol!

I wouldn't even dream of a one world government in our lifetime. I like the idea of seperate governments running their own show and bartering with another to sell some goods and compete in international afffairs.
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  Quote Great Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 13:21
Like Seko i also think that a world with separete counties and governments is enough good.But without war and confrontation only with trade between countries like in Thomas Mores Autopia.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 14:34
One world government would require much war and conflict to accomplish and on top of that even more simply to sustain it. Large numbers of people would be divided into classes and the difference between the haves and have-nots would be even greater than we have today. I wouldn't want this to happen at all, in fact we should even break up huge nations that we have today into smaller self-sufficient communites.
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  Quote Denis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 09:52
Originally posted by pinguin

One world government?
 
And who is going to be the president? Putin or Bush? LOL
 
Perhaps the better way is to give more power to the U.N., to form an international army coallition, and to strenght international law instead of military or economical power.
 
But a single government could be a nightmare under the hands of a dictator.
 
Penguin
 
 


I was thinking more of an overall constitution and parliament. The overall parliament would be based in an inconsequential city or country (Romania, Latvia, Uganda or somewhere like that) Who at the time of asking had little to no diplomatic or military might. Just an idea playing around in my head but the bottom line is that the constitution would be framed in such a way that a dictator would be nigh on impossible to take control.
"Death belongs to God alone. By what right do men touch that unknown thing"

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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 21:22
Originally posted by Genghis

I would disagree with Malizai's assertion that the greatest threat (and greatest obstacle) to global unity is ideology.  I think the greatest obstacle would simply be economics if you want to call it that.  No wealthy nation is going to want to join a OWG that will take more of their money and give it to poorer countries which, in their view at least, did not earn the money and when there are other things they want to spend the money on.  Poorer countries are not going to join a OWG which will not promise them much money and instead leave them vulnerable to the power of the wealthier nations.
 
Simply put, people want resources and most don't want to share.  No species in nature (or at least most of them, there might be some very odd exception I've never heard of) care for their species as a whole, only a small group of them.  I don't think humans have evolved past that fact.
 
Genghis you are right it would not work without harmonizing the intellectual will of the global leadership. Economic theories are based on ideological principles, therefore can not be criticized independently from other ideologies.
 
"Simply put, people want resources and most don't want to share. "
 
It is not evolution holding us back, because we do look after our weak and infirm, and believe it or not we share, just not equitably. Trade is barter, which is in fact a share in the others provisions.


Edited by malizai_ - 03-Jan-2007 at 21:26
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