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ScythianEmpire
Samurai
Joined: 04-Nov-2005
Location: Pakistan
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Topic: who are Turks? The current people in Anatolia? Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 09:11 |
Originally posted by Alparslan
Well, everybody very well know that Persians have much darker skinned and they have different type of people. They look like Indians, Pakistanis and Gypsies. |
Pakistanis, even Indians arent a homogenous racial group. Indians are a different set of people to Pakistanis. There are one or two provinces in Pakistan that share a common ancestry with North Indian people (Punjab and Sindh), the remainder (Balochis and Pathans) are generally physically and culturally distinct from Indians and from the rest of Pakistan
Edited by ScythianEmpire
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Maju
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Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 15:46 |
Originally posted by Attila2
Hi all,
I haver to say just one thing.
Since 1200s,"thanks" to ottomans,we have all mixed with
arabs,greeks,persians,Kurds and thanx to Yavuz Sultan Selim,even with
BEDUOINS!
WE anatolian Turks really dont look like our ancestors
Our ancestors had slanted eyes,straight hair,large head,mid-framed body and Dead-white skin
But its too rare to come across a turk showing those properties in Turkey.
Maybe you can see such Turks around northwestern Black-sea cities |
I think you are insulting your own ancestors here: obviously you do
look like your ancestors but your ancestors weren't exclussively nor
majoritarily pure Mongoloid Turkmen (if such thing exists), but rather
diferent peoples, mostly local from Anatolia and Thrace, that
eventually decided to become Turks.
I personally think that was a wise integration policy of Turks, else
there would maybe be no Turk identity at all today in Turkey - just
look at South Africa and what segregation has done to Afrikaaners: they
have become an isolated minority in a country that is not theirs
anymore. If they would have mixed freely, maybe all South Africans
would feel themselves Afrikaaner now - though obviously they wouldn't
look Dutch anymore.
Anyhow, I think you have to accept the richness that comes with a
variety of origins and that doesn't mean that you should feel less Turk
for that. Just quit thinking in "race" terms: it is much more
healthy. We are all product of a complex history.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Posted: 05-Nov-2005 at 11:52 |
Since 1200s,"thanks" to ottomans,we have all mixed with arabs,greeks,persians |
If YOU are mixed with them, Ottomans arent the ones to blame, but your ancestors' being international casanovas.
You are the first Turk to claim beduin ancestry. Of course if the anti-secularists dont consider themselves so...
WE anatolian Turks really dont look like our ancestors |
Do you have their pics? If not, you dont make sense...
you can see such Turks around northwestern Black-sea cities |
What's special with northwestern Black sea coasts?
pure Mongoloid Turkmen (if such thing exists), |
I guess no, even if it does, such people never arrived at Anatolia.
I believe you exaggerate the amount of Balkan mixing in Turkey. People with "part" Balkan ancestry who were Anatolians in origin, later settled by Ottomans in Balkans and returned to Turkey after the lost of Balkans, just occupy about %8 of our current population.
The population of Anatolia was 13 million after the WWI, 1,5 million Greeks included.
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DayI
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Posted: 05-Nov-2005 at 13:27 |
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by Attila2
Hi all,
I haver to say just one thing.
Since 1200s,"thanks" to ottomans,we have all mixed with arabs,greeks,persians,Kurds and thanx to Yavuz Sultan Selim,even with BEDUOINS!
WE anatolian Turks really dont look like our ancestors
Our ancestors had slanted eyes,straight hair,large head,mid-framed body and Dead-white skin
But its too rare to come across a turk showing those properties in Turkey.
Maybe you can see such Turks around northwestern Black-sea cities
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I think you are insulting your own ancestors here: obviously you do look like your ancestors but your ancestors weren't exclussively nor majoritarily pure Mongoloid Turkmen (if such thing exists), but rather diferent peoples, mostly local from Anatolia and Thrace, that eventually decided to become Turks.
I personally think that was a wise integration policy of Turks, else there would maybe be no Turk identity at all today in Turkey - just look at South Africa and what segregation has done to Afrikaaners: they have become an isolated minority in a country that is not theirs anymore. If they would have mixed freely, maybe all South Africans would feel themselves Afrikaaner now - though obviously they wouldn't look Dutch anymore.
Anyhow, I think you have to accept the richness that comes with a variety of origins and that doesn't mean that you should feel less Turk for that. Just quit thinking in "race" terms: it is much more healthy. We are all product of a complex history.
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I wanna ask you "how do you see Turkish citizens?" are they Turkish speaking ancient Greeks (heard taht from a iranian guy here in ae)? Or ancient living people out there who now speaks Turkish? Or people who has somehow high amount of Etruscian genes (read that somewhere in this forum).
Sorry in advance if i asked too much from you, no offence just wanna know what you really think and the rest.
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Maju
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Posted: 05-Nov-2005 at 14:18 |
I think that Turks are descendants of many diferent lineages but mostly
from Anatolian native peoples, there would be some Greeks in the
melting pot and there would be some Armenians, Kurds, Arabs,
Phoenicians, Romans, Serbs... who knows?
When I think of Turks, I think of modern Turkey as I know first hand,
as I've visited it as turist. But when I am put in stuation of thnking
of their origins, I rather think in atal Hyuk and maybe the Hittites,
Lydians and other ancient Anatolian peoples, rather than in Atilla or
Ozbeg Khan. The genetic lineage anyhow must be pre-IE, and the same is
probably true of Greeks, at least in my opinion. I don't put much
weight in the "Hellenism" of that area, though it is undeniable that,
before Turks arrived with their distinct Muslim and steppary culture,
the region was widely Hellenized and Greek was the common language. And
it is also obvious that the newly arrived tribes didn't just kill
everyone but rather assimilated them.
In other words, I'm no Greek nationalist, much less regarding Turk
origins. Just mean to see things with their correct perspective.
I think that many Turks and Greeks (and others) tend too project the
problems of the present (or recent past) in these historical
discussions, what is pretty unfair and doesn't help the process of
correct scientifical study.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 10:01 |
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gok_toruk
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9 Oghuz
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Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 11:08 |
Hi buddies. I see people are still talking about our faces here. This arguement will last forever. As for me, I've always believed that Turks' ancestors were Mongoloid, while our Anatolian brothers think the other way... that our ancestors were Caucaid. Whatever it is, I wish you best of luck.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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gok_toruk
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Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 11:23 |
By the way, besides the facts I belive in to justify my belief, I've got a question:
Yakuts and Chuvashes left our ancestors in any very early time. They had not contact with Mongols. Look at Asian Eskimos, they're claimed to be related with Turks & Mongols' ancestors. And all small isolated Turkic tribes in far north, close to Antarctia. These are all Mongoloid. Don't tell me they're not; simply because you haven't been there. And don't rely on writings since this is a clear and obvious case which does not need them. I've seen most of these people Mongolian. How do you explain this?
I can tell you of more obvious points. A Persian proverbs says: 'shenidan key bovad manande didan': 'hearings are not as reliable as seeings'. So, take good care and take it easy.
Kind regards,
Iltirish
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Emil_Diniyev
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Joined: 03-Aug-2007
Location: Azerbaijan
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Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 03:50 |
I m an Azeri and i look like Slavic.
And most of us look like Georgians and some look like Slavics.
My topic about origins of Azeris, and u can see pics of Azeris in there.
Most of us look like Georgians and some look like slavic.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21033
And i dont think we are from turkic tribes.
We Are South-Caucasians.
Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 04-Aug-2007 at 03:52
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Bulldog
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Posted: 05-Aug-2007 at 11:12 |
No you look Georgian, your not a Turk or from Turk tribes but Azeri Turks are capiche.
There are hundreds if not thousands of Afshar, Bayat, Bayindir etc villages and settlements, they are Oguz Turk tribes.
Turks of Turkey are Turks, they speak Turkish, have Turk identity, trace historical lineage to Turks etc etc
The continuos migration of Turks from Central Asia and the Near East to todays modern Turkey resulted in smaller groups already existing in Anatolia to become Turkified over time.
The pre-Turkish populations in todays Turkey apart from Greeks, Armenians etc became Turks over time.
As Turks didn't have a notion of "race", or racialistic ideas regarding being a Turk. These groups after marrying, joining a Turk tribe or becomming a Turk became accepted as a full equal Turk.
Thus they're Turks.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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xi_tujue
Arch Duke
Atabeg
Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 11:46 |
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev
I m an Azeri and i look like Slavic.
And most of us look like Georgians and some look like Slavics.
My topic about origins of Azeris, and u can see pics of Azeris in there.
Most of us look like Georgians and some look like slavic.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21033
And i dont think we are from turkic tribes.
We Are South-Caucasians.
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hmm I'd rathers say if azeris would look like another ethnic group would be persian and not Georgian . Me as a meskheti Turk. Lots of intermixing happend and we even don't look quite look georgian. Most of us don't anyways. so your post is absurd and I doubt that ure azeri (because an azeri would never say that to start with)
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Lmprs
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 12:51 |
Emil, I really find you pathetic. If you don't want to associate your nation with Turkic speaking ones, why do you post under this topic?
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Kerimoglu
Consul
Joined: 05-Oct-2006
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 13:54 |
:)))))))))))))))
Man I have been trying to explain him and he didnt get.
Diniyev is something not common surname in Azerbaijan. he might be from Dagestan or something as well.
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History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Perun
Janissary
Joined: 13-Mar-2007
Location: Bosnia Hercegovina
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Posted: 13-Aug-2007 at 09:14 |
We cannot (and we shouldn't) avoid mixing with other people. In my opinion ancient Turks were linked to Altaic-Turkic-Mongol group of people, certainly with sinoid facial and "racial" characteristics (since reading Steve Olson's "Mapping Human History" I don't like the term "races"). Proof for that could be, as someone here said, facial characteristics of Turkic nations from Middle Asia (Uzbeks, Kazhaks, Kyrgyz, Turkmens, Uyghurs, etc) or Ural-Siberia (Yakuts, Chuvashs) that were not much mixed.
Modern Turkey (Anatolia) is inhabited for a long time. Before Greek arrival there were Indo-European people like Lydians and Phrygians, Hittites, "Sea People", etc. Then there were Greeks, Romans, Byzantines...Middle Asian Turks were then mixed with this amalgam of nations and "racial" types. During Ottoman empire, a lot of Slavs, Caucasians and Arabians came to Asian Minor. So there is nothing weird in the fact that nowadays in Turkey you can see blond-blue eyed man, married to Mediterranean darker skin coloured woman.
In my home country, Bosnia and Herzegovina, we have the sam situation. It was a transition point. Illyrian tribes, Greek colonies, Roman conquerors, Gothic tribes, Avars, Slavs, finally Ottomans (including Turks, Persians, Arabs, Caucasians). A really wonderful mixture :)
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Emil_Baku
Immortal Guard
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Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 15:31 |
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev
I m an Azeri and i look like Slavic.
And most of us look like Georgians and some look like Slavics.
My topic about origins of Azeris, and u can see pics of Azeris in there.
Most of us look like Georgians and some look like slavic.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21033
And i dont think we are from turkic tribes.
We Are South-Caucasians.
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Emil Diniyev, there is no end to your stupidity.
Azeris dont look slavic, only mixed ones might look. You might be on of the north caucasian minorities as well . No real Azeri, will write so stupid stuff like you did. Noth and South Azeris dont look much different, and most of the people ( esp. in the souther part of Azerbaijan Republic)have a lot of relatives in South Azerbaijan. Your comments not only are insulting, but also have aim to deteriorate our relationshop with Turks and South Azeris ad with anyone else. And I cant understand why such a person - who lacks knowledge in history, is not banned eyt.
There is no doubt that Azeris are mixed people - the same can be said for Anatolain Turks. But it doesnt make us less Turk - all our ancestors have called themselves Turks - so, DIniyev stop putting your racist comments on all pages.
Sorry for unrelated post. This guy just irritates me
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 11:13 |
HELLO IM KHAZAR TURK AND WE THE KHAZAR TURKS NO FROM MONGOLS ORIGIN ARAB HISTORIANS SAY KHAZAR LOOKS CAUCASOID PHYSYCALY AND I KNOW AZERI PEOPLE THE AZERI CALL HEAMSELF TURKS AND LOVE TURKIYE HEAM DONT LOOOK LIKE RUSSIAN WE ARE KHAZAR LOOK LIKE HEAM AND I THINK AZERI HEAM MUSLIM KHAZAR NOT ALL THE KHAZAR PEOPLE WAS JEWS AND MOST OF HEAM TO BE MUSLIMS
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 11:15 |
IM SORRY ABOUT MY POOR ENGLISH
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 11:22 |
I MEAN THE AZERI PEOPLE THEY ARE MUSLIM KHAZAR THE KHAZAR TURK CONTROL IN AZERBAIJAN AREA IN MIDDLE AGE AND WE ARE KHAZAR TURK LOOK LIKE AZERI PEOPLE ALL THE TIME PEOPLE THINK I FROM AZERBAIJAN
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 11:37 |
IN JEWISH MYTH WE ARE DESCREPTION AS CAUCASOID AND IN ARAB SOURCE WE ARE NOT DESCREPTION AS AMONGOLOID STOP SAY TURKS AND MONGOLS IS SAME THIS NOT TRUE NOT HAVE PROVE THAT TURKS ARE MONGOLOID THIS STUPID THEORY THE ARMENIAN PERSIAN AND GREEK USE THIS THEORY AGAINST THE TURKS RUSSIAN ANTHROPOLOGIST SAY WE ARE KARAY TURK THE REAL SUCCESSOR OF KHAZAR ETHNICLLY AND WE ARE CULTUR AND WE ARE NO LOOK LIKE MONGOLS HOW YOU EXPLAIN THAT?
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Seko
Emperor
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Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 11:49 |
Nice to meet you Khazari. Good to have new members from Israel too. I'll give you a helping hand and the AE way of doing things around here. First friendly bit of advice is to post in small letters and not caps. Second when making personal or historically based opinions try to provide references and links into your opinon/arguement. Lastly, please read the Codes of Conduct and Terms of Use to familiarize yourself with our policies. Other than that welcome to AE.
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