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who are Turks? The current people in Anatolia?

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who are Turks? The current people in Anatolia?
    Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 11:52

Hmmm, interesting. Judging from the fact that you both rush to group people under the label "slanders", while you're basing your arguments on nothing more than their nationality, doesn't give your inteligence much credit either...

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 12:02
We shouldnt say that "all Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single topic", because this is just generalisation, and has no place in our culture. We should say that "Except Yiannis, the other Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single opportunity they find."
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 12:14
Originally posted by YAFES

Originally posted by strategos

But now most present turks are mostly caucasoid genetically, and the majority of the population does not have much/very little nomadic turkish blood.

True, neighbour

The word "Turk" has two main meanings in Turkish:

1) Springer, deriver, derivator, multiplier, reproducer, pullulater... (Also "tr" in Turkish means "species" )

2) Establisher, orderer, formator, arranger, regulator...

Turkish nation and language belongs to the Altaic sub-unit of Ural-Altay group.

The road the Turk has gone can be understanded from the meaning of the Turk.

Turks have been mixed/linked with almost everyone. They have springed, derivated, multiplied, delivered along the way they have been.

From the steppes, to the walls of Vienna. All is an evolutionary mechanism.

Touched and been touched, glamoured and been glamoured, affected and been affected.

Never needed its genetic codes of the begining.

The strenght and and invulnerability was always sourced from one only stable rule: combination. The one even Romans explored much later.

So briefly this is what Turks are.

So this is the main meaning of "A Turk is worth the earth." (Mustafa Kemal ATATRK.

Very nice post Yafes, like a summary of what we are all trying to explain.

But as I read, the word Turk has been derived from the word "Tur".

The Turks are a historically nomadic nation, and the thing that makes all of us "Turk" is the common ancestry, and combination.

@strategos:

What do you mean by saying most of us dont have any nomadic Turkis blood? I am a Turk, and I still live semi-nomadic, like my ancestors once did, so I have nomadic Turkish blood. Mongoloid genes dont mean nomadic Turkish blood. Maybe even they were genes that were added to Turkish blood after some migrations and intermixing. If you dont have any ideas about a topic, just dont bother us for your idiotic provokations...

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 19:50

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

We shouldnt say that "all Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single topic", because this is just generalisation, and has no place in our culture. We should say that "Except Yiannis, the other Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single opportunity they find."

Well then, prehaps except NO turkish members, ALl of them are argumentative and over protective of their ancient turkish heritage..

Actually, I'm mostly talking about yourself.

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 04:07

Originally posted by Phallanx


Here is proof that you have these mongoloid genes, the question is where can they be found, if they can!!!  in the rest of Europe??

"Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period."

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.sh tml

Thank you. It is what we are saying in fact.  The ancestors of Turkey's Turks, Azeris, Caucassia's Turks and Russia's Turks are related with Huns. They were also related with Mongols but only to some extent. This doesn't mean that they were Mongols.

Mongoloid influnece on Central Asia increased after Gengis Kagan. But Huns and many Turkic people were already in Europe, north of Black Sea, Aral and Khazar at least 700 years before Gengis Kagan.    



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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 20:36
YAFES
I wonder which part of your body you used to read what I wrote!..........
.

And you were the one that wanted me banned for slander.
By the way the words matching with "Turk" are the same in Persian. Not the ones you gave

   YAFES
"
ABSOLUTE LIE
GREEK MEMBERS TRY TO SLANDER IN EVERY OPPORTUNITY"

Feramez
"
Ha, of course, I've notice this ever since I joined this forum."

Oguzoglu
"We should say that "Except Yiannis, the other Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single opportunity they find."


Again your superiority BS. I'm a Turk and I know everything and you are nothing more than a stupid Greek that just wants to provoke us

Read, Oh great ones, unfortunately you didn't enlighten us with your superior knowledge this time:

Online Etymology Dictionary
............Said to mean "strength" in Turkish............................
In Persian, turk, in addition to the national name, also could mean "a beautiful youth," "a barbarian," "a robber."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Turk
----------------
Now if we are to see what the meaning of the word Turk is in english we find that the english language has adopted the Persian meaning of "barbarian" as seen in:
SHORTER OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY (1952)
Turk: Applied to any one having qualities attributed to the Turks; a cruel, savage, rigorous, or tyrannical man.

OXFORD NEW DICTIONARY AND THESAURUS (1996)
Turk: offens. A ferocious, wild or unmanageable person.

THE OXFORD AMERICAN & LANGUAGE GUIDE (1999)
Turk: (offens) a ferocious, wild, or unmanageable person

OXFORD ILLUSTRATED AMERICAN DICTIONARY (2000)
Turk: A ferocious, wild or unmanageable person

Now even though the (turkish)author of the article (you will find in the link bellow) has a point that this is the archaic meaning of the word.
It is a fact that all the most well respected dictionaries do give this meaning.
http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/06_15/opinion.ht ml

As I've said before but you obviously do NOT learn, think twice before you ever question my posts and my intentions.

Feramez
Who said that Turks didn't originate from there and have no Mongoloid genes?.

I think you misunderstood.
The reason of my post wasn't to question the fact of the mongoloid origin of the Ottomans but as a responce to YAFES:
"
Turks have been mixed/linked with almost everyone. They have springed, derivated, multiplied, delivered along the way they have been. From the steppes, to the walls of Vienna. All is an evolutionary mechanism."

He said this to prove  the meaning of turk to be:
" Springer, deriver, derivator, multiplier, reproducer, pullulater..."
which is simply incorrect since no mongoloid genes are found all the way to the "walls of Vienna".



To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 21:03
Originally posted by Alparslan

Originally posted by Phallanx


Here is proof that you have these mongoloid genes, the question is where can they be found, if they can!!!  in the rest of Europe??

"Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period."

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.sh tml

Thank you. It is what we are saying in fact.  The ancestors of Turkey's Turks, Azeris, Caucassia's Turks and Russia's Turks are related with Huns. They were also related with Mongols but only to some extent. This doesn't mean that they were Mongols.

Mongoloid influnece on Central Asia increased after Gengis Kagan. But Huns and many Turkic people were already in Europe, north of Black Sea, Aral and Khazar at least 700 years before Gengis Kagan.    

Yes, the FIRST NOMADIC TRIBES WERE mongoloid.., but MOST OF THE POPULATION OF present day turkey, Is a mix of Armenian, Greek, Arabs, and others.. because I have seen Turkish members post their pictures on this forum, AND  have seen other turks such as the turkish basketball/football team, and do not see any mongoloid features.. or very few.

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 21:19
strategos
Yes, the FIRST NOMADIC TRIBES WERE mongoloid.., but MOST OF THE POPULATION OF present day turkey, Is a mix of Armenian, Greek, Arabs, and others.. because I have seen Turkish members post their pictures on this forum, AND  have seen other turks such as the turkish basketball/football team, and do not see any mongoloid features.. or very few.


Absolutely correct. That is the basic reason we find that Mongoloid characteristics are scarce in modern Turks. We can hardly find the high cheekbones and the inner eyelids which were the "sign" of mongoloid ancestry.

How many Turks are there that actually look like these people? From what I know, at least in the area near the Aegean. Nowhere.




Edited by Phallanx
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 04:18

Originally posted by Phallanx


And you were the one that wanted me banned for slander.

It's not a slander, it's my sense of humour. Depends of what meaning you get.


SHORTER OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY (1952)
Turk: Applied to any one having qualities attributed to the Turks; a cruel, savage, rigorous, or tyrannical man.

OXFORD NEW DICTIONARY AND THESAURUS (1996)
Turk: offens. A ferocious, wild or unmanageable person.

THE OXFORD AMERICAN & LANGUAGE GUIDE (1999)
Turk: (offens) a ferocious, wild, or unmanageable person

OXFORD ILLUSTRATED AMERICAN DICTIONARY (2000)
Turk: A ferocious, wild or unmanageable person

These are all the meanings from European points of view.

"Turk" is not an indo-european word, so those yo wrote are indirect matches by European mentallity.

 

He said this to prove  the meaning of turk to be:
" Springer, deriver, derivator, multiplier, reproducer, pullulater..."
which is simply incorrect since no mongoloid genes are found all the way to the "walls of Vienna".

And I remember to have said that there's no importance in relevance of mongoloid genetics of a Turk, also mongoloid genes are not the begining, bu Turks had mongoloid genes, too, by the time when relations began eith mongollians.

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 05:54
These are all the meanings from European points of view.

"Turk" is not an indo-european word, so those yo wrote are indirect matches by European mentallity.


Cut the crap, all three of you mentioned above clearly jumped on my last post and began speaking of slander.

Sorry to disappoint all of you but truth has once again prevailed. Now,as I  mentioned before but you INTENTIONALLY ignored it:

Online Etymology Dictionary
............Said to mean "strength" in Turkish............................
In Persian, turk, in addition to the national name, also could mean "a beautiful youth," "a barbarian," "a robber."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Turk

Once again, all of you provide a fine example to prove my comment that was quoted by Oguzoglu:
""One of the major problems you Turks have is that you act as if you are sheep, do and believe whatever the sheepherder tells you to. Even though you have a great source in your hands (internet) you never use it to obtain knowledge, all you do is post supremacy BS."

To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 11:41

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

We shouldnt say that "all Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single topic", because this is just generalisation, and has no place in our culture. We should say that "Except Yiannis, the other Greek members attack and argue with Turkish members in every single opportunity they find."

 

I think that "it takes two to tango" an in this case both sides show enough immaturity and aggresion. I would expect that you would all be tired by now...

 

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2005 at 21:58
Sorry re Yianni,
but I demand that my name is totally cleared. Enough is enough!!!!
I proved that this was no kind of hate post as some of the ignorants demanded that it should be titled.

A long (and could be longer) list of dictionaries support my allegedly  provocative post (as the ignorant support).
Turk in persian means:turk, i addition to the national name, also could mean "a beautiful youth," "a barbarian," "a robber."

So I've proved once again that not only do I NOT provoke but also managge to educate a few of them.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 10:24

well, the reference you gave is suspicious.

i won't comment your claim anymore, unless a persian member tells that "robber" problem.

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 14:30
well, the reference you gave is suspicious.



After the long list of labels, now we can add that an online etymologic dictionary as "suspicious"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 14:41

Originally posted by Phallanx

well, the reference you gave is suspicious.



After the long list of labels, now we can add that an online etymologic dictionary as "suspicious"

Did you know that, still some major universities in America have encyclopedias in their libraries which describe Turks, "a donkey riding tribe in the Middle east"?

If it's about Turks, everything must be checked. So again I say, the meanings of "Turk" in languages else than Turkish are indirect matches, and still half of the world supposes Turks "barbarians" while old Turkish coins of years of thousands are found.

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 14:55
If it's about Turks, everything must be checked. So again I say, the meanings of "Turk" in languages else than Turkish are indirect matches, and still half of the world supposes Turks "barbarians" while old Turkish coins of years of thousands are found.


I can agree that the meaning of any turkish word in any other language but turkish is irrelevant.
Here, we are not viewing its meaning in any simple language, but it's meaning in Persian. It's a well known fact that the  Arabic and Persian languages were your No1 word loaners. We can find you introducing Islamic religious terms in your language just some years ago, during the 90's. (I hope you know that your religious texts and terms are still using a heavily Persian influenced idiom and the syntax is of course Persian.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 15:07

Quote:

We can find you introducing Islamic religious terms in your language just some years ago, during the 90's.

What do you mean here??

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2005 at 15:52
I'm talking about your language reform. When I said you before, I was generally speaking and didn't mean you in specific.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 13:20

By the way, here are all foreign words in Turkish by numbers;

german 99, arabic 6455,
albanian 1, bulgarian 8, 
armenian 16, persian 1361,
french 4702, hebrew 8, 
english 470, spanish 38,
italian 621, japanese 2,
latin 91, hungarian 18,
mongolian 15, norwegian 1,
ottoman turkish 43, portugese 3,
russian 37, slavic 21, 
greek 382

totally 14.394 foreign words

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 13:22

but we can take almost all the french words within the latin you know

 



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