Shahname and Schytians - History Forum ~ All Empires

Turanis and Iranis in the Shah Nameh speak the same language, there is no mention of "Turks". Turanis and Iranis in the Avesta also speak the same language.

Turan was only applied to Altaic people by some crazed Hungarian nationalist in the 19th century after the read the Shah name and became delusional. That's where it caught on from.

Turan refers to ancient non-Turkic Scythians in the Shah Nameh and Avesta.

There was no difference because they were the same people.

The lands were divided between three sons of King Feriydoon of Iran. Salm, Tur and Iraj. Salm and Tur were jealous of Iraj because he inherited Iran.

The name Turan comes from Tur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoun

According to Ferdowsi�s Shahnameh, Fereydun was the son of Ābtīn one of descendants of Jamshid. Fereydun together with Kaveh revolted against the tyrannical king �Zahhāk� and could defeat and arrest him in the Alborz Mountains. Afterwards Fereydun became the king and according to the myth, ruled the country for about 500 years. At the end of his life he allocated his kingdom to his three sons; Salm, Tur, and Iraj. Iraj was Fereydun�s youngest and favored son and inherited the best part of the kingdom namely Iran. Salm inherited Asia Minor ("Rūm", more generally meaning the Roman Empire, the Greco-Roman world, or just "the West") and Tur inherited Central Asia ("Tūrān", all the lands north and east of the Oxus, as far as China), respectively. This aroused Iraj�s brothers� envy and encouraged them to murder him. After Iraj�s murder, Fereydun enthroned Iraj�s grandson, Manūchehr, before his decease. Manūchehr�s attempt to revenge his grand father�s murder initiates the Iranian-Turanian wars.

Edited by Zagros - 04-Nov-2006 at 12:03

Turan is not underestimated.

No, Soghdiana and Bactria were the kingdoms of Central Asia, they were both Iranian kingdoms.

The Turkic tribes were not in, or at most prominent, in the region at this period.

and who is Afrasiyab? i heard that he represents the Alp Er Tunga in the Scythian Myths

A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )

Alp Er Tunga was Turk leader of Schytians(Sakas).

Turk tribes in schtians called him Alp Er Tunga

.İranic peoples in Empire called him Efrasiap.

Here ı found poem,it wrote by a Turk schaman after Al Er Tonga's death,in schytian language:

Alp Er Tonga �ldi-m�

İsiz ajun kaldı-mu

�dlek ��in aldı-mu

Emdi y�rek yırtılur

Begler atın argurup

Kadgu anı torgurup

Mengzi y�z� sargarıp

K�rk�m angar t�rt�l�r

K�ngl�m i�in �rtedi

B�tmiş başıg kartadı

Ke�miş �d�k irtedi

T�n k�n ke�ip irtel�r

�dlek atıg kevredi

Yun�ıg yavuz tovradı

Erdem yeme sevredi

Ajun begi �ertil�r

Divan'ı Lugat'it Turk-Kaşgarlı Mahmut

This language is old Turkish

Edited by GhengisKhan - 11-Nov-2006 at 11:30

Originally posted by GhengisKhan

Alp Er Tunga was Turk leader of Schytians(Sakas).

Turk tribes in schtians called him Alp Er Tunga

.İranic peoples in Empire called him Efrasiap.

Here ı found poem,it wrote by a Turk schaman after Al Er Tonga's death,in schytian language:

Alp Er Tonga �ldi-m�

İsiz ajun kaldı-mu

�dlek ��in aldı-mu

Emdi y�rek yırtılur

Begler atın argurup

Kadgu anı torgurup

Mengzi y�z� sargarıp

K�rk�m angar t�rt�l�r

K�ngl�m i�in �rtedi

B�tmiş başıg kartadı

Ke�miş �d�k irtedi

T�n k�n ke�ip irtel�r

�dlek atıg kevredi

Yun�ıg yavuz tovradı

Erdem yeme sevredi

Ajun begi �ertil�r

Divan'ı Lugat'it Turk-Kaşgarlı Mahmut

This language is old Turkish

Completly wrong! You have read what Zagros wrot above, did you? Afrasyab (and not Efrasiab) was the Son of Kay Khosrow according to Shahnameh. And there was never an Alp Er Tunga between Scythians, becouse alp Er Tnuga is a mythical Hero of Turks, not a real person. When would you people differ between myth and reality?

alp er tunga and efrasiyab are the same person

A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )

Kotumeyil wasn't the Shahnama written during the same period?

�What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.�
Albert Pine

Exactly, the Shahname is being used to determine Afrasiyab. The Shahname was a great work but we know it's history is not accurate.

�What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.�
Albert Pine

No, but what the Avesta does say is that the Turanians and the Iranians were one people with different religions.speaking the same language - probably proto-Aryan.

The most direct descendants of the Turanians as far as I see are the Nuristanis. They have almost all been coverted to Islam, but their pre Islamic religion fits in with that described by the Avesta.

I am sorry guys but there is no way that the Avesta or Shah nameh Turanians are the ancestors of Turks.