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Belisarius
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Topic: Rise of Islam Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 19:59 |
Just how were the early Muslims able to topple Sassanid Persia and pretty much everything else?
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 20:03 |
Will to fight and the weakness of areas they conquered.
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Belisarius
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 11:18 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
Will to fight and the weakness of areas they conquered. |
Yes, but the Byzantines, and the Sassanids? Those were not weak states at all.
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azimuth
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 12:39 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
Will to fight and the weakness of areas they conquered. |
they were not weak
so typical of western to undermine such eastern POWER
Alexander the "Great" couldn't controle India, Arabs did ( the Arab General was a teenager younger than Alex)
Alexander the "Great" couldn't reach China, Arabs did
and that was done in 1 to 2 years with taking spain too.
Edited by azimuth
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Tobodai
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 13:54 |
Arabs didnt reach China they reached its protectorate, and Islam was introduced to India by Turks, not Arabs.
Arab sucess has to do with skilled generalship and that Sassanids and Byzantium had just concluded a very destructive war.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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azimuth
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 14:06 |
I copied the following from Wikipedia
With the ascent of al-Walid I, Hajjaj's reputation grew due to his selection and deployment of numerous successful generals who expanded the Islamic empire. Hajjaj was given these powers due to his high status in the Umayyad government, and he exhibited a lot of control over the provinces that he governed.
Among these generals was the teen-aged Muhammad bin Qasim, who in 712 was sent to Sindh in India. Compared to his general Hajjaj was more hardline insisting that pagans (or those who were not people of the book) be killed or enslaved.
Qutaibah bin Muslim was sent to conquer Turkestan which he did, even penetrating the borders of China and getting a tribute payment from the Chinese emperor. Perhaps his most successful general was Musa bin Nusair who consolidated control over North Africa and who sent Tariq bin Ziyad to invade Spain.
those were arabs not turkish

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Berosus
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 19:24 |
The Byzantines and the Persians wore themselves out in their bloodiest
war, which lasted 25 years (603-628), and ended just before the Arabs
burst onto the world scene. And then the Persians followed that
up with a four-year civil war, between Kavadh II and Yazdegerd
III. That's why today's Zoroastrians use a calendar that counts
years from 632 A.D.; they are marking the coronation of Yazdegerd, the
last king who followed their creed.
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Nothing truly great is achieved through moderation.--Prof. M.A.R. Barker
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azimuth
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Posted: 21-Dec-2004 at 00:24 |
still persia was not weak
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 25-Jan-2005 at 19:36 |
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Christscrusader
Will to fight and the weakness of areas they conquered. |
they were not weak
so typical of western to undermine such eastern POWER
Alexander the "Great" couldn't controle India, Arabs did ( the Arab General was a teenager younger than Alex)
Alexander the "Great" couldn't reach China, Arabs did
and that was done in 1 to 2 years with taking spain too.
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How long did it take the Arabs to reach China? When did Arabs control India? Wasn't it the turks? Alexander is one man, and I guess he must be pretty important if u need to compare a WHOLE group of people up to him.
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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azimuth
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Posted: 25-Jan-2005 at 23:41 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
How long did it take the Arabs to reach China? When did Arabs control India? Wasn't it the turks? Alexander is one man, and I guess he must be pretty important if u need to compare a WHOLE group of people up to him.
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since you dont read the rest of the posts i will repeat what i posted earlier
I copied the following from Wikipedia
With the ascent of al-Walid I, Hajjaj's reputation grew due to his selection and deployment of numerous successful generals who expanded the Islamic empire. Hajjaj was given these powers due to his high status in the Umayyad government, and he exhibited a lot of control over the provinces that he governed.
Among these generals was the teen-aged Muhammad bin Qasim, who in 712 was sent to Sindh in India. Compared to his general Hajjaj was more hardline insisting that pagans (or those who were not people of the book) be killed or enslaved.
Qutaibah bin Muslim was sent to conquer Turkestan which he did, even penetrating the borders of China and getting a tribute payment from the Chinese emperor. Perhaps his most successful general was Musa bin Nusair who consolidated control over North Africa and who sent Tariq bin Ziyad to invade Spain.
those were arabs not turkish
also Alexander is one man and this one man wont be able to do anything without something called ARMY with more than 40000 men so my comparison doesnt make him that much important ( he is more important to Europeans and Westerners but not to Arabs) it is a Comparison between two Armies
also alexander's army was a nation army while the Army sent to india was just part of the Islamic armies who were speread in the west and the east Conquering every directions.
so to compare Alexander and His Army with one part of Ummayad Empire army makes that Group of people more important than Alexander's Empire's Army.
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 16:36 |
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Christscrusader
How long did it take the Arabs to reach China? When did Arabs control India? Wasn't it the turks? Alexander is one man, and I guess he must be pretty important if u need to compare a WHOLE group of people up to him.
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( he is more important to Europeans and Westerners but not to Arabs) it is a Comparison between two Armies |
I can assure you, any Scholar, western or not, can appreciate alexanders conquests. (unless they have some problems)
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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demon
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Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 18:25 |
I'm going to have to agree with Christcrusader with this. Hellenistic culture influenced Indian architecture- which got transmitted to rest of asia via Buddhism. So its quite interesting to see how 40000 men changed the artistic style of a continent.
Even if someone defeats others in battle, soon or later, it will degenerate into another fairy tale about a brave knight. But art, lives forever.
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Grrr..
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Temujin
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Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 14:15 |
sow aht? Islamic architecture spreads from Spain to Indonesia and from Africa to Russian Tatarstan province and Chinese Xinjiang province, how far did Hellenism spread?
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 19:07 |
how LONG did it take for that? quite longer than hellenisism.
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Miller
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Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 23:06 |
Originally posted by Temujin
sow aht? Islamic architecture spreads from Spain to
Indonesia and from Africa to Russian Tatarstan province and Chinese
Xinjiang province, how far did Hellenism spread? |
Actually, what is today is labeled as
Islamic architecture is derived from Sassanid domed architecture
which was adapted by Muslims. It really
has nothing to do with Arab conquerers.
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 00:29 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
how LONG did it take for that? quite longer than hellenisism. |
much less than the Hellenisisim
from year 708 AD to 714 AD north africa, spain, north india and big part of centeral asia were taken.
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Faran
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Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 13:12 |
Originally posted by Miller
Originally posted by Temujin
sow aht? Islamic architecture spreads from Spain to Indonesia and from Africa to Russian Tatarstan province and Chinese Xinjiang province, how far did Hellenism spread? |
Actually, what is today is labeled as Islamic architecture is derived from Sassanid domed architecture which was adapted by Muslims. It really has nothing to do with Arab conquerers.
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I would say it has alot to do with Muslims, though Islamic architecture is derived from Persian architecture. Islam basically changed Arabs from one of the most savage to the one of the most advanced people in the world. They obviously adopted elements of nearby civilizations since they had less civilization of their own (at first), but Pre-Islamic Persia would have known nothing of the splendour of the great Muslim architects. But I think it is correct to say that Persia was largely to the calliphates what Greece and Rome were to later Europeans.
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Infidel
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Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 04:19 |
Originally posted by Temujin
sow aht? Islamic architecture spreads from Spain to Indonesia and from Africa to Russian Tatarstan province and Chinese Xinjiang province, how far did Hellenism spread? |
Hellenism isn't just about architecture. And if one must recognize and cherish the muslim heritage to the world, one must also honestly agree that the greek heritage is unsurmountable.
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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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JasSum
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Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 05:34 |
persia was week at that time.
Arabs had a great luck to find neigbours at their worst standings.
And they spread in places that were runing away from byzant becaue of the herretic movemants (egypt, ermenia)
So they would rahter had islam over them than the ortodox empire. (maybe because islam was closer to their belives, and maybe they were just stubborn)
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Artaxiad
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Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 16:07 |
The Byzantine Empire was oppressing non-Orthodox Christians, including the Coptic Egyptians, Apostolic Armenians, and Assyrians. Maybe that's why they would rather have seemingly tolerant Arabs as their rulers, not because Islam was closer to their beleifs.
But some Armenians were far from welcoming them with open arms. Local dynasties and lords (such as Theotoros Rshduni) formed armies to try to stop the Arab invaders.
The Arabs' tolerance towards Armenians depended from emir to emir.
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