Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Eunuch ???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Mordoth View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 192
  Quote Mordoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Eunuch ???
    Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 11:00
Errm , i can not find the word  " Eunuch " in my dictionary and i desire to know what the word " Eunuch " implies ?
Do they mean devshirme
?
If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
Back to Top
Maharbbal View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 11:02
No, enuch means castred. Generally it is used in reference of the slave "admin" who for various reasons had their balls chopped off. Usually they were the ones in the harems. But not only.
I am a free donkey!
Back to Top
Seljuk View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 14-Jan-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 13:11
It is 'hadım' in turkish. They are devshirmes (of course not all devshirmes are hadım)and apart from harems there were pretty many of them in adminastration including chief viziers (like Hadım Ali Pasha).

Back to Top
The Hidden Face View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Ustad-i Azam

Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1379
  Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 14:09
Noun
1. a man who has been castrated and is incapable of reproduction; "eunuchs guarded the harem"
(synonym) castrate
(hypernym) man, adult male.
Back to Top
Mordoth View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 192
  Quote Mordoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 20:09
Uh huh , thanks for the explanations .
HAdim huh :-s
Wow ...
If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
Back to Top
Aelfgifu View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 25-Jun-2006
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3387
  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 04:04
Originally posted by The Hidden Face

Noun
1. a man who has been castrated and is incapable of reproduction; "eunuchs guarded the harem"
(synonym) castrate
(hypernym) man, adult male.
 
Castrate is not a complete synonym. Castrate is only used when the man in question was a singer. In the Early Modern age, boys with exeptionally beautiful singing voices were 'operated' like this before puberty to keep their voice from changing. They were very highly valued in Italy for example, but not much appreciated in the northern European countries.
The last known Castrato singer died at the beginning of the 20th century. There are still some records of his voice.

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
Back to Top
Mughal e Azam View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646
  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 06:12
Why were eunuchs important? What function did they serve? If you want a man with no balls, why not just get a female?

Why do it?
Mughal e Azam
Back to Top
JanusRook View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 07:15
Why were eunuchs important? What function did they serve? If you want a man with no balls, why not just get a female?

Why do it?


I don't know if your aware Mughaal but gender equality wasn't a well developed concept in those times. Men were chosen because they thought men were more competent at their jobs than women.
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 13:08
Originally posted by Mughaal

Why were eunuchs important? What function did they serve? If you want a man with no balls, why not just get a female?

Why do it?
 
Some were very important. Chen He, the famous Chinese admirald that reached Africa with his fleet, was an eunuch. Eunuchs were usually employed to protect women in harems... That's why they were made eunuchs in the first place.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 19:45
castrates would sometimes reach high offices because there was no chance they would rebel and establish their own dynasty, that was the main reason. some people even by their own allowed them to be castrated to reach such high offices at all.
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:07
Originally posted by Temujin

castrates would sometimes reach high offices because there was no chance they would rebel and establish their own dynasty, that was the main reason. some people even by their own allowed them to be castrated to reach such high offices at all.
 
Great insight Temujin!
 
the Caliph Al-Amin owned about 7000 black eunuchs (who were completely emasculated) and 4000 white eunuchs (who were castrated).[
 
Why were the blacks and whites treated differently? is the emphasis misplaced by the choise of words used for each. So in the above case what would be the difference between complete emasculationa, and castration. This practice is putting me off the Abbasids.Dead
 
Back to Top
JanusRook View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:23
So in the above case what would be the difference between complete emasculationa, and castration.


The difference I think is that in castration you can still use your penis to urinate and such, but with demasculation I believe the practice either completely removed the penis, or a new hole was cut in to provide passage of waste. I read that Zheng He wore special sticks in his hair for the purpose of aiding in going the bathroom, I think it was in 1421: The Year China discovered America, Menzies gave quite the descriptive account on Chinese Eunuchs.

Edited by JanusRook - 06-Mar-2008 at 20:24
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 06:12
A worthy topic. Eunuchs were considered useful servants in many parts of the world. Although they themselves were as prone to palace intrigue as most other members of the court, for the most part they were dependable and could not harbour personal ambitions for the top job. This is because they could not produce their own dynasty.

In the case of Byzantium, on many occasions the Emperor felt most comfortable sending out an army under the command of a eunuch. Placing the army under the command of an especially capable commander was a dangerous thing to an Emperor, yet a eunuch could generally be relied upon to not turn the army against his master. The most successful example of this is Narses, who won his battles with the precision of a mathmatician. There was no gallantry or flambouyance from that shrivelled up old Armenian in his 80s - just faithful service.

As has already been stated, women were considered the physical and intellectual inferior of men. They were neither considered suitable for holding command, nor for fulfilling important roles in the court or palace bureaucracy.

This is just my own personal musing, but I do think that having one's balls removed would give a man a more urbane and obedient temperament.
Back to Top
Windemere View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 09-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
  Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 21:06
The Chinese and Turkish Emperors had hundreds of wives and concubines, more than they could keep track of. But they needed to make sure that they ( the Emperor) was the father of any children produced. So the wives and concubines were shut away in harems, and the only men (other than the Emperors) allowed access to them were eunuchs, who cared for them but couldn't impregnate them, thus ensuring that the Emperor was the father of any children that were produced.
Windemere
Back to Top
Mughal e Azam View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646
  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 21:19
Another question, whats the use of so many women?
Mughal e Azam
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 23:32
That should be obvious, Mughaal.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 08:10
Originally posted by Mughaal

Another question, whats the use of so many women?
Start thinking like a Mughaal, Mughaal.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 19:25
It's an ancient practise: Assyrian and Babylonian emperors used eunuchs as administrators and harem guards (including the sons of a captured Hebrew king). The Romans used them as male prostitutes
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2012 at 19:26
Bagoas was a Persian eunuch who became the lover of Alexander the Great. He convinced the king to assimilate conquered nations to prolong the empire
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2012 at 19:28
The chief eunuch of the Turkish sultan's harem was black as Africans were deemed more trustworthy than whites. The operation involved all external genitalia being swept away with a razor blade, a metal or bamboo tube stuck into the wound, and the patient being buried up to his neck in hot sand. Only 10 percent survived 
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.097 seconds.