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Who are the ancient Macedonians ?
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    Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 01:37
Originally posted by theMacedonian

 The thing i wanna know is was that village a Macedonian or a Greek vilige just capured by Macedonia at the time?


It was a city in Macedonia that preffered to be independent and democratic...That is why Philip burned it. The city is called Stagira and exists today...

Olynthos is also a Macedonian city that got independence and entered the Athenian league...Now lets see...A city in Macedonia entering a Hellenic league? And oh yeah, they were members of the Panhellenion as well...So was the Kindom of Macedonia.

For some reason when I do questions about Aristotle and his origins people change subject directly...LOL


Edited by Flipper - 25-Oct-2006 at 01:38


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Why do I always have to remind people that the term barbarian has a basic meaning of "uncivilized" used for both foreigners and Hellenes that were culturarly undeveloped?
 
Well, here's the problem.  From the very first time it is recorded in ancient Greek literature it is used to designate a non-Greek.  Herodotus begins his work (1.1.1) already using the term with the sense of non-Greek.  In the majority of its usage it meant non-Greek.

The word for foreigner in Greek is litterarly "xenos" or "Mi Ellin" or "allodapos". A person who can not behave, is culturarly undeveloped, cannot speak formal or commit attrocities is a "barbaros".
 
Then based upon the majority of times it is used, all non-Greeks could not behave and committed attrocities.  Does this make sense to you?

The Hellenes said "Pas min Ellin Barbaros".

This means "Foreigners are Barbarians" and not  "foreigners are foreigners". It doesn't mean eather "Barbarians are foreigners".
 
How about "foreigners are non-Greeks"?
 
Besides, who said the Macedonians were the only ones to be called "Barbarians"? Other Greek tribes had to live with that characterization for centuries. So, what about the Thebans? What about the Aetolians? They were called barbarians but they were still Hellenes.
 
This only obscures the issue.  Sometimes the word is used for Greeks, but this is obviously an exception to the rule.  Since the word had already been used to mean "non-Greek", the sense of its use for Greeks (either collectively or toward an individual) is in the sense of them acting like "non-Greeks".  As we know from the majority of other evidence the groups so-named were considered Greeks.

Now i don't know how people that do not use these terms in everyday speech can convince me, a native speaker and reader of Hellenic language the opposite.

Since everyone hangs under these terms why does nobody wonder why the Spartans had similar views upon the Athenians? Where the Athenians ,non Greeks, because the Spartans for political reasons looked down on them? The Athenians? Those who claimed to be the "true Hellenes"?
 
On the other hand there is evidence from Thucydides that the Spartans and Athenians regarded each other as Greeks (4.20.4).  Again, since there is other ample evidence to show that both were regarded as Greek, the term "barbarian" must be seen in the light of political infighting, as a term of insult, marking off their enemies as "lower" than they.

As for the Jewish historian...The Jews refer to the Macedonians as Jawan like they did with other Greeks (more to come on this)...
 
Like the comments I've spoken about the Indian usage of the term Yavana, the Macedonians were seen in the Hellenistic period as having been Hellenized enough, especially with their adoption of koine Greek, to be seen by outsiders as Greek. 

The distinction between Macednos and Macedonian is tragic...

Velleius Paterculus on his Book I, based on Herodotus makes no distinction between Macednos and Macedon.

"...but the Dorians on the contrary have been constantly on the move; their home in Deucalion's reign was Phthiotis and in the reign of Dorus son of Hellen the country known as Histiaeotis in the neighbourhood of Ossa and Olympus; driven from there by the Cadmeians they settled in Pindus and were known as Macedons; thence they migrated to Dryopis, and finally to the Peloponnese, where they got their present name of Dorians."
 
There are many translations which make that mistake.  According to Liddel and Scott - Greek/English Lexicon,  Makednon was the "pr.n. [proper name] of the Dorians".  Nothing is said of the term meaning "Macedonian".
 
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?layout.refembed=2&layout.refdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0125&layout.refcit=book%3D1%3Achapter%3D56%3Asection%3D3&doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2364596&layout.reflookup=%2Amakedno%2Fn&layout.reflang=greek&layout.refwordcount=1&layout.refabo=Perseus%3Aabo%3Atlg%2C0016%2C001

From etymonline.com (Online etymology dictionary, sub project of Oxford university)

Macedonia: from L. Macedonius "Macedonian," from Gk. Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos "long, tall," makros "long, large."
 
We've already covered this in other parts of the thread.  What is missing in your definition is the term "Makednon".  Nothing is said of it.

Herodotus, Book VIII ,43

"The composition of the fleet was as follows: 16 ships from Lacedaemon, the same number from Corinth as at Artemisium, 15 from Sicyon, 10 from Epidaurus, 5 form Troezen, 3 from Hermione. The people of all these places except Hermione are of Dorian and Macedonian blood, and had last emigrated from Erineus, Pindus, and Dryopis."

If you're gonna quote a historian it is very bad to quote just a part that suits ones needs. This is a very common tactic and works well on ignorant people. Herodotus clearly says that Lacedaemonian people are from Dorian and Macedonian blood.
 
Again, this has already been discussed.  The same word is used - Makednon.   Again, this word is only used in the two passages you quoted, and not in any other.  They are never mixed with the normal term for "Macedonian", hence these passages quoted can only been seen as interpretations (i.e. someone's preconceived idea as to what the word means) and not a translation.
 
Besides, Archelaus is clearly a Dorian name found in the Kindoms of Peloponisus. Another example is the name Alexander.  According to Eusebius, the first man in Greece named Alexander, was Alexander of Corinth, 10th King of his city who ruled around the late 9th century, the same era when the Macedonian royal house was founded.
 
No one is disputing the etymology of the names of the kings of Macedonia.

Now, may I ask what value does a simple political or geographic distinction have, compared to quotes pointing clearly to a Greek origin?
Even the most wildest Japanese, admirer of Western cultures wouldn't be so fanatic to claim descent of a nation he doesn't belong to.
 
I'm not claiming a non-Greek origin of the Macedonian royal house.  What I'm claiming is that the royal house is of different origin than the Macedonians.  Again, Alexander was recognized as a Greek, not because he was a Macedonian, but because his ancestors came from a recognized Greek state, hence, there is your geographic distinction.

Just an example of a quote that says clearly what the Macedonians were:

Emperor Julian (Praise for Eusebia, p147)

"That much I can say, without endless talking and without becoming tiresome, that she [Eusebia] is of a family line that is pure Hellenic, from the purest of Hellenes, and her city is the metropolis of Macedonia."

Compare this to wishfull thoughts making them non-Greek. And like someone in this forum said "define a Hellen" before talking about who's Greek and who's not. Hellenism and Jewism are ethnic terms completely different from anything else we know about ethnicities.
 
Julian is far too late to be used as an authority on ethnicity.  Macedonia during his period of reign included many Greek-speaking areas anyway, such as Chalcidice and Thessaly, so what did he mean by "city"?  Thessalonica, perhaps?  We already know that there was a Greek presence in the region, from a time even before the Macedonians took over the region.  
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 04:52
Originally posted by Sharrukin

Why do I always have to remind people that the term barbarian has a basic meaning of "uncivilized" used for both foreigners and Hellenes that were culturarly undeveloped?
 
Well, here's the problem.  From the very first time it is recorded in ancient Greek literature it is used to designate a non-Greek.  Herodotus begins his work (1.1.1) already using the term with the sense of non-Greek.  In the majority of its usage it meant non-Greek.


Really? When he speaks about the Pelasgic language he speaks about a Barbaric language. Then he says that the Greeks never changed their speech and that it was a branch of Pelasgic. He says that the Athenians, the "true Hellenes" were of Pelasgic origin? Just an example of how you can present swifted meanings when you do not include the whole story.

Originally posted by Sharrukin



The word for foreigner in Greek is litterarly "xenos" or "Mi Ellin" or "allodapos". A person who can not behave, is culturarly undeveloped, cannot speak formal or commit attrocities is a "barbaros".
 
Then based upon the majority of times it is used, all non-Greeks could not behave and committed attrocities.  Does this make sense to you?


Or were uncivilized compared to others...So yes, it makes sence if you do not remove the word "uncivilized" as I originally wrote.

Originally posted by Sharrukin


The Hellenes said "Pas min Ellin Barbaros".

This means "Foreigners are Barbarians" and not  "foreigners are foreigners". It doesn't mean eather "Barbarians are foreigners".
 
How about "foreigners are non-Greeks"?



In Greek that would be "Pas xenos mi Ellin".

Mi Ellin does litterarly mean "non-Greek" even in a free translation. Now tell me what if such a quote like yours does sense.

What does more sense to you as a saying?

"Foreigners are culturarly undeveloped/uncivilized"

Or

"Foreigners are non-Greeks"

The second is a useless statement...

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Besides, who said the Macedonians were the only ones to be called "Barbarians"? Other Greek tribes had to live with that characterization for centuries. So, what about the Thebans? What about the Aetolians? They were called barbarians but they were still Hellenes.
 
This only obscures the issue.  Sometimes the word is used for Greeks, but this is obviously an exception to the rule.  Since the word had already been used to mean "non-Greek", the sense of its use for Greeks (either collectively or toward an individual) is in the sense of them acting like "non-Greeks".  As we know from the majority of other evidence the groups so-named were considered Greeks.


So, why isn't it an exception of the rule about the Macedonians?

Originally posted by Sharrukin


 
On the other hand there is evidence from Thucydides that the Spartans and Athenians regarded each other as Greeks (4.20.4).  Again, since there is other ample evidence to show that both were regarded as Greek, the term "barbarian" must be seen in the light of political infighting, as a term of insult, marking off their enemies as "lower" than they.



Bravo! Great point...Clap For the same reason Demosthenes and others lowered Philip and his people. In the same way we have comments that regards them as Greek rather than "other people".

Originally posted by Sharrukin


As for the Jewish historian...The Jews refer to the Macedonians as Jawan like they did with other Greeks (more to come on this)...
 
Like the comments I've spoken about the Indian usage of the term Yavana, the Macedonians were seen in the Hellenistic period as having been Hellenized enough, especially with their adoption of koine Greek, to be seen by outsiders as Greek. 


Good. Now tell me a good reason why the Macedonians would spead Hellenistic culture and not their own. Why would they care to adopt a "foreign language" and develop it? Besides, doesn't culture and speech define the Hellenes (Isokrates)?

Remember that before that before the Hellenistic years and the years when Koine was the common language of the Greeks, the Persians called the Macedonians Yaunas. This was during the war between Greeks and Persians. Doesn't that mean that their pre-Koine language (Makedonisti) was considered Greek to the Persians?

Originally posted by Sharrukin


The distinction between Macednos and Macedonian is tragic...

Velleius Paterculus on his Book I, based on Herodotus makes no distinction between Macednos and Macedon.

There are many translations which make that mistake.  According to Liddel and Scott - Greek/English Lexicon,  Makednon was the "pr.n. [proper name] of the Dorians".  Nothing is said of the term meaning "Macedonian".
 


George Rawlingson, write "Macedonians" and I believe he is a more cretitable historian isn't he? I think this distinction is made for retoric purposes and not as an actual difference between "Makednos" and "Makedonas". Is there anyone saying clearly "Makedonian is not the same as Makednos"?

Originally posted by Sharrukin


From etymonline.com (Online etymology dictionary, sub project of Oxford university)

Macedonia: from L. Macedonius "Macedonian," from Gk. Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos "long, tall," makros "long, large."
 
We've already covered this in other parts of the thread.  What is missing in your definition is the term "Makednon".  Nothing is said of it.


Makednon is a declination of Makednos. If you were going to call someone directly "Makednos" would become "Makedne" which is a Dotic declination in Greek.

Also, depending on the dialect of Greek being used, words are cut in various ways like this of Makednon and Makedon.

E.g: "Gar" can be "ga" in Doric forms, "mitir" becomes "matir" in Doric, "Misa" becomes "Imsa" in Pontian.

Now, since you don't comprehend the language and its dialects I don't understand what you're trying to proove with this? All your quotes on the specific matter are done because of the lack of grammar. It is telling me that the english "It" is different from the possesive "Its" and therefore "Its" does not derive from It.
 
Originally posted by Sharrukin

 
No one is disputing the etymology of the names of the kings of Macedonia.



Good, then I'm leaving this behind...Sorry.

Originally posted by Sharrukin



Emperor Julian (Praise for Eusebia, p147)

"That much I can say, without endless talking and without becoming tiresome, that she [Eusebia] is of a family line that is pure Hellenic, from the purest of Hellenes, and her city is the metropolis of Macedonia."

Compare this to wishfull thoughts making them non-Greek. And like someone in this forum said "define a Hellen" before talking about who's Greek and who's not. Hellenism and Jewism are ethnic terms completely different from anything else we know about ethnicities.
 
Julian is far too late to be used as an authority on ethnicity.  Macedonia during his period of reign included many Greek-speaking areas anyway, such as Chalcidice and Thessaly, so what did he mean by "city"?  Thessalonica, perhaps?  We already know that there was a Greek presence in the region, from a time even before the Macedonians took over the region.  


1) Thessaly is in Thessaly not Macedonia.
2) Yes, Thessaloniki...That was built way after the Macedonians took over the region.
3) If Julian is too late then Hesiod (Catalogues of Women, fr.3) does the job:

"And she (Thyia, sister of Hellen) conceived and bare to Zeus who delights in the thunderolt two sons, Magnes and Macedon, rejoicing in horses, who dwell round about Pieria and Olympos."
I guess you have missed the fact that Macedon was the tribal leader of the Macedonians, the one who gave them their name.

I can post pages with quotes that do not distinct geographically Macedonians and the rest but that include them or call them Hellenes. However, this wouldn't be a thread-friendly  post.

Now, one question...I said that I reffer I Macedonians the settlers of Emathia and Pieria. Which do you reffer to as Macedonians? If the surrounding areas had Greek presence why are you so sure they were different? I see the settlers of Mychenaean times as Achaean or Aeolian settlers. What happened later is another story. You have a vast number of Cretans, Chalkideans and Cadmians in the area. You also have Phrygian leftovers from their first Kindom and ofcourse some Illyrian settlements. I can accept that the Phrygians and Illyrians were assimilated but did that make them non-Greek? Even if they became neutralized, the comming of the Heraklidae should polarize them as Greeks again.

Am I out of my mind or do I speak in logical terms?


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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 08:07
Originally posted by Menumorut

Why nobody doubts about the Greek character of Ionia, Hystria, Olbia, Agrigentum, Paestum, Byzantium?


Why were Thessalians, Eolians, Ionians, Spartans considered Greeks but the Macedonians were considered different from Greeks in ancient authors?
What the Macedonians done in order to proove theirs Greek origin is my answer in your question? Of course a lot. Conquered a world and spread the Greek culture is enouph answer? Do you see any other conqueror to spread diffrent civilization from those that has?
The ancient authors consider the Macedonians as Greeks. Can you show me one author that doubt the non-Greek origin of them?
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Posts: 473 		  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 09:27
Can someone of the deniers of the macedonians' greekness explain me how had they hellenised from the evil greeks according to your opinion?
Were they conquered by southern Greeks??
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:15

Oks forgive me for my Iliteracy but wasnt there two terms.

Hellenic period
Ellenic period

Is there anything simmilar?
Because im not quiet shore... All i know is that one means greek (the actual greek colture) and the otherone was the Base for a Macedonian empire forged by Alexander III... as a way of comunicating and understanding eachother.

Im not quiet shore about the correcness of the namese because i recieved this knowlage in a different language.

???
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:21
No one said that greeks wore evil... hahah ur just piking a fight here.

In fact greeks wore the once who said Macedonians wore uncivilised and the only way Macedonians could prove that this isnt so is by conquring them and accepting their coltural walues in order to better themselfs.
 
Macedonians no matter how much they hated the greeks they still respected them and cherished their colture. But the stuburnes of the greeks and their pride always saw apon the macedonians as inferior beings even when they proved them wrong by conquering them.

NEED any more?
 
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Posts: 473 		  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:30

Originally posted by theMacedonian

Oks forgive me for my Iliteracy but wasnt there two terms.

Hellenic period
Ellenic period

Is there anything simmilar?
Because im not quiet shore... All i know is that one means greek (the actual greek colture) and the otherone was the Base for a Macedonian empire forged by Alexander III... as a way of comunicating and understanding eachother

What else we will read over hereLOL
It's a nice thread to destry with nonsences
 
PS(You didn't answer my question,thanks. )
 
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:41
Ok take it like this...

If a great conqueror in the bronzen age invades a mystical ancient civilisation and finds Iron...

will that conqueror use his own primative wepeons as a sign of patriotism,
or
will he adopt the new metal and continue his conquest in even greater glory?
 
???
Get it?
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:50

Since i see that u have great knowlige can u tell me why Alexander I was called Fil Hellen (as u said that means Mi ellen)?

U know "the non-greek"



Edited by theMacedonian - 25-Oct-2006 at 10:51
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Where was he called phylhellen?
.
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Posts: 473 		  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:59
 Fil Hellen (as u said that means Mi ellen)?
LOL Don't destroy the thread... at least answer to my previous questions
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Man if u dont understand my last reply pls consoult someone that can understand it... and dont make me force ideas on you Wink naa just kiding,,,

but i think that i made my self clear when i explained about the bronze and iron situation.
 
Sorry for any inconvenience by the way.
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Does anyone know the names of the 3 Macedonian kings before Perdicas? We all know that Herodotus wrote that Perdicas was the first Macedonian king... but then there are other sources that say there wore tree king before him???
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Originally posted by Anton

Where was he called phylhellen?
Alexander I the Philhellene
 
As I see you don't know the FYROMian  propaganda try to present a quote of Herodotos when named the Macedonian king Alexander A as Phillellene as not Greek.

We know that into the present this term mean:

lover of Greece or things Greek
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0009930.html

and
One who admires Greece or the Greeks
http://www.bartleby.com/61/45/P0244500.html

The term phil means
One that loves or has a strong affinity or preference and Loving; having a strong affinity or preference
http://www.bartleby.com/61/42/P0244200.html

Let's what the adjective Philhellene was given to Alexander and the several forms of that:

Example 1
Xenophon, the Spartan Agesi laos general and leader as Philhellene : It is a honour for a Greek to be Philhellene
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...Xen.+Ages.+7.1
Quote:
Again, if it is honourable in one who is a Hellene to be a friend to the Hellenes , what other general has the world seen unwilling to take a city when he thought that it would be sacked, or who looked on victory in a war against Hellenesas a disaster?

Example 2
Plato wants the leaders of Greeks to be Philhellenes and not separatists

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...t.+Rep.+5.470e

Quote:
And won't they be philhellenes, lovers of Hellenes, and will they not regard all Hellas as their own and not renounce their part in the holy places common to all Hellenes ? Most certainly. Will they not then regard any difference with Hellenes

And  this....
Quote:
Greeks, however, we shall say, are still by nature the friends of Greeks when they act in this way

[Plato, Republic 5.470c]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...ut=;loc=5.470d

According to some(FYROMians as usual)Ouch, being friends of Greeks makes you a non Greek. Plato  was clear of what mean of the Phillelene in the ancient times.Smile


Edited by akritas - 25-Oct-2006 at 11:27
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:38
As far as I know Macedonia has never had the need to expand propaganda or to redefine history for we alredy know or history... so we dont need these revivals...
 
But not to go far from the forum...
I just like to add that its clear when someone is called "friend of this" or "likes, the" it is clear what it means.

If i was a greek i did not need to become a friend of, because i was alredy one.

So what u try to say is that Alexander I was a greek who BETRAYED the greeks (so they wrote him off) and then regained their trust for them so they gave him the title "Phillhellen" so "other greeks" don't fear him?

this is the only way what u say and what is written that i can compile into a common down to earth logic.
 
 
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:00
Originally posted by theMacedonian

Oks forgive me for my Iliteracy but wasnt there two terms.

Hellenic period
Ellenic period

Is there anything simmilar?
Because im not quiet shore... All i know is that one means greek (the actual greek colture) and the otherone was the Base for a Macedonian empire forged by Alexander III... as a way of comunicating and understanding eachother.

Im not quiet shore about the correcness of the namese because i recieved this knowlage in a different language.

???



You have confused the same term in two different languages...

Elliniki is is the Greek word that characterizes something of female genus as Greek. Period in Greek is a "she" word and that is why you have "Elliniki periodos".

The corresponding word in English is Hellenic and means litterarly "Greek". Actually Hellenic is the correct word not Greek.

However, what you're looking for are the words:

GK: Ellinistiki
ENG: Hellenistic

The Hellenistic period starts with the conquests of Alexander the Great in Asia. I won't get into details just that it was a period when, the Hellenic or Greek if you prefer, culture flourished in large part of the world. There is no Macedonian or Athenian or Spartan or Epirotan etc period.  Just Hellenistic...

Also since you mentioned communication etc, because of the different dialects in Greece and the different grammar, Alexander took the easiest of them,  the Attic dialect (Attikisti), and made in the common language of the Greeks (Koine).

Anyway, I don't want to get out of subject again. Just wanted to answer those questions since the terms you asked for are important if you need to follow any discussions here.

If you want some mind food I suggest you have a look at the Indo-Greek Kindoms of Asia as they are called...


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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:04
Flipper if we continue with that way the AE will lock and  this thread.Until now we have the most clear and full argyment debate thread in the net as I ve seen now.Avoid the nationalistic flash!!
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Arch Duke
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:10
Originally posted by theMacedonian


In fact greeks wore the once who said Macedonians wore uncivilised and the only way Macedonians could prove that this isnt so is by conquring them and accepting their coltural walues in order to better themselfs.


Who would conquer a nation in order to accept its culture? Is there any logic in this? No...Besides Philip was schooled in Thiebes to start with. He knew everything he needed to know about his culture.
 
Originally posted by theMacedonian


Macedonians no matter how much they hated the greeks they still respected them and cherished their colture. But the stuburnes of the greeks and their pride always saw apon the macedonians as inferior beings even when they proved them wrong by conquering them.

NEED any more?
 


Yes...Were did you read they hated the rest of the Hellenes? No Macedonian talked about hatring towards another tribe in Greece.

Since this is a serious historical forum we do not present things we have "heard of" as facts. As you can see, all of us, do a hell of a job to quote ancient writters, translate texts, analyze the thoughts of historians etc etc.

Please stick to that or just make the questions. Smile We are expressing opinions in here but we always base them on something and discuss it from different points of view.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:12

Since the term Hellenism plays an important part in defining the ancient Macedonians i have this report (its not my works):

Although, the term "Hellenistic" period may still be acceptable as a cultural classification of the time during and after Alexander the Great, the term "Macedonistic" period should, and ought to be, used to cover any other historical references. There is no denying that the period from Alexander the Great until well into the Roman time deals with Macedonian Dynasties, their rule, succession and their eventual interaction, or lack there of with the indigenous local populations throughout the Balkan Peninsula, Asia and Egypt. Here, the term "Hellenistic can hardly do any justice to historical scholarship since its coverage/domain leaves a huge section of history barely touched. Hellenism, the term Johan Gustaf Droysen gave to this era, is such a narrow cultural belt of history that its usage is not only misleading and inappropriate but it also distorts and minimizes the greatness of the ancient Macedonians. Even though the Greek contribution, from a cultural point of view, may be argued to have occupied a place of pivotal importance in the administrative sector of the empire, the organizational, the military and the structural components of this Macedonian Empire must have been obtained, delivered and maintained strictly from Macedonian resources and for Macedonian interests. The concept of an empire, an esoteric notion for the Greeks, was born with the first few initial successes of Alexander, and its meaning, magnitude, scope and structure grew as the string of victories and the success on the battlefields allowed Alexander to enlarge, coordinate and control huge land areas in Asia and Egypt. For almost 3 centuries after Alexander, it was his successors that carried the symbols and the name of the Macedonian Empire. Thus, the very narrow strip of "Hellenism" that comes, as a residue, attached to the period in question, cannot, in any meaningful way, embrace and encompass the scope and the magnitude of an empire that was built, organized and maintained on the strength and the efficiency of the Macedonian army.

Differences Between The Ancient Macedonians and The Ancient Greeks by J.S. Gandeto
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