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Greco-Roman vs. Han Chinese Extant Architecture

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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greco-Roman vs. Han Chinese Extant Architecture
    Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 18:09
Dams:

I added pictures of and a comment on the Roman Proserpine Dam, a dam which still provides water for the neighbouring villages - 1900 years after its construction by Roman engineers!

A good site on Roman engineering with lots of quality articles:
http://traianus.rediris.es/

More on Roman dams in Spain:
http://traianus.rediris.es/textos/presas_in.htm




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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 17:41

Medieval "skyscrapers" of San Gimignano, Italy.

 
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  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 18:11
Ah yes, San Gimignano. Werent the towers built by rivaling families? Or am I thinkin if something else.
 
You also cant forget the "Manhattan of the desert".
 
 
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 18:20
Yes, they were. And if one shows you the silhouette of those towers and doesn't tell you the scale of the picture (those towers are actually quite small), you might mistake it to be the skyline of a modern metropolis.
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 18:59
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  Quote explorer6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 13:19
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

Review of The World's Great Bridges.Review Author: Fred Kniffen, in:
Geographical Review, Vol. 45, No. 4. (Oct., 1955), pp. 607-608 (607):

Mr. Smith properly avoids overspeculation on the earliest beginnings of bridgebuilding. Instead he passes quickly to historical fact, the widespread distribution of the three basic types of bridge construction (beam or girder, and its extension into cantilever; arch; and snspension) in both time and space, even back to primitive peoples. He shows, for example, how the widely distributed corbeled arch made of slabs extended one above the other preceded the true arch constructed of voussoirs (tapered or wedge-shaped stones). The latter seems to have stemmed from an exclusive invention of the Tigris-Euphrates area.


Corbeled arch is found at Peinan, Taiwan where the earliest dates go back to 3000 B.C.

Voice of the Ancestors





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  Quote JuMong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 22:57
Certainly,

Europe looks like a third world country compared to modern China today. I've often wondered why European Countries have failed to produce these "modern marvels" considering  the lead they had against China for the last 50 years.


http://tinypic.com/aemzko.jpg

http://tinypic.com/aen02b.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=193251&page=3

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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2007 at 10:00
Originally posted by JuMong


http://tinypic.com/aemzko.jpg


Who wants to live there?
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2007 at 11:51
Originally posted by JuMong

Certainly,

Europe looks like a third world country compared to modern China today. I've often wondered why European Countries have failed to produce these "modern marvels" considering  the lead they had against China for the last 50 years.


http://tinypic.com/aemzko.jpg

http://tinypic.com/aen02b.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=193251&page=3

 
why would they? Is a skyscraper inherently superior as architecture to older buildings? It is a style of building initially conceived because of sky-rocketing property prices. In Asia, it has also acquired a status symbol quality.
In any case, there are skyscrapers in many places in Europe as well: London and Paris, Frankfurt and Moscow, and others... They are generally confined to the periphery however, because many European cities are concerned with preserving the original aspect of the city.
 
Also, from my experience, it is in the countryside that one sees how much of a "third world country" is... The western European countryside generally tends to have a high quality of life, with excellent roads everywhere and lots of amenities. From what I've heard, this is not the case in China...


Edited by Decebal - 27-Mar-2007 at 11:54
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  Quote Praetorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 15:10
Originally posted by JuMong

Certainly,

Europe looks like a third world country compared to modern China today. I've often wondered why European Countries have failed to produce these "modern marvels" considering  the lead they had against China for the last 50 years.


http://tinypic.com/aemzko.jpg

http://tinypic.com/aen02b.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=193251&page=3

 
Third world? Confused   
 
  Dude China still lacks in many things that western nations have  Dude think before you post!
 
It looks like you never bin to Europe.  There are skyscrapers in many places

 

  Last 50 years?  No not true, Europe, Middle East, and Egypt always had the most advance architecture; many, many architecture achievements came from these civilizations  Manly the Romans and Greeks  Also it was Egypt that were the first in history to build stone buildings and dams

 

Shopping Malls, Hypocaustum, Hypocaust, Aqueducts, Bridges, Theatres, Domes, Churches, Lighthouses, Arches, Paved Roads, and many more!  These are not modern!  Its manly Greek and Roman!!  So I think its much, much more then 50 years ago!   
  
  Europeans cities are concerned with preserving the original aspect of the city.  They have so many ancient, medieval, and renaissance buildings there and it is national pride to have them!! These buildings show the world of their accomplishments and their proof of their nations existents in the past!   Also the ancient and Goth buildings bring tourist all over the world! 

 

  I was in Rome, and I thought I was in a modern hotel, but the hotel was over 500 years old!!  Shocked  So way build a new one if the old ones still to this day meats the 21st century requirements!  There are even people still living in 1800 year old buildings!!  Also look at the the Proserpine dam, other and Roman Bridges, old and ancient Churches, ancient Lighthouses, Roman Paved Roads, some Roman Aqueducts, some  ancient  theatres, Domes, the Arches, these are is still in use!!!

 

  I can see how they have domes and other things in the east because of the Greek empire that Alexander brought to them  Civilizations in the east started to adopt Greek architecture and later Roman  Roman architecture is what truly brought a more modern way of living; some of many Roman inventions were the Roman Shopping Malls, Roman apartments, brick, and mortar!!  Roman brick and mortar were said to be bettor then most modern brick and mortars! 

 

  I think that the Romans also had histories first domes or modern domes, the Roman Pantheon was the biggest dome made for way over 1000 years  Theirs a good reason way Rome was the biggest city in Earth for a very long, long time!    Also Gothic architecture was another brake though in buildings!!  They say that Europe during the medieval and renaissance times still had the most advance architectures  I can see       architecture ideas traveled to the east  Hay way not?  Their were some ideas that came from the east.       

 

  Theirs a reason way Europe always has bin the number one tourist spot These buildings show history, stories, romance, and other things that attracts people

 

 

There are so much more I can say about Western architecture

 

 

 

Now is the reason way their are unique curves on the Far East Architecture because they believed that it defected spirits?   

 



Edited by Praetorian - 04-Jul-2007 at 15:45
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  Quote greattang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 14:24
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

 It is well known, however, that poor/commoner Chinese in the city lived in multistory apartments...
 
Which I find curious since traditional Chinese architecture made no use of arches or vaults. And bricks walls, if there were any, had no static supporting role, but simply a separating function. Which means that the skeleton of Chinese multi-story houses must have been almost completely out of wood. But how high and strong can you build a normal house out of wood...? Are there any Han and Tang houses extant? Perhaps you can post some pics from Ming houses to get a better idea of Chinese urban dwellings.
 
 
Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

Someone on here once said that architecture was much more celebrated in the West than in the East, ...
 
I think architecture is not simply another form of art, it is a highly utilitarian thing which really can facilitate life. It is no question of art whether you live in a house with walls of fired bricks, blazed roof tiles, running water in the basement, central heating and double glazed windows - or not. It is a question of living standards.
 
 
Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

However, all dynasties after the ancient Han Dynasty pretty much used the inherent skills of architecture from that era to build their own planned cities, city walls, towers, and gates, provincial and local city palaces based on the design of the Imperial Palace, mausoleums, monasteries, Buddhist pagoda towers, grottoes, private, royal, and public gardens, government offices, folk public buildings, one level and multistory pavilions, residential houses, bridges, etc....
 
Read just yesterday a renowned travel guide on China and they said exactly the opposite. Ancient Chinese cities never developed the kind of complex infrastructure without which Western or Islamic cities are unthinkable.
 
The duality of Emperor and citizen - with nothing in between - was also reflected in the meek infrastructure of Chinese cities. No citizens and no concept of citizenship or self-government meant in terms of urban architecture lesser public buildings, less crystallisation points for urban living. Add to that the perishability of traditional wood based East Asian architecture and we know why Chinese cities - as far as architecture is concerned, not people! - do not have the same aura as Indian, Muslim or Western cities.
 
 
First off, stone structures are less utilitarian than wood in China because of earthquakes. All the other factors you brought up doesn't show utilitarianism at all. Why are baked brick walls more efficient than wood? So the big bad wolf wouldn't be able to burn it down? Yet when earthquake starts, you'll die instantly from internal collapse. Alot of people today live in wooden houses. Some even choose to live in them over brick structures, including millionaires. Do they have a poorer living standard? No. Its not as simple as you want it to be.                                                                         Secondly, only the fairly wealthy in China use wooden material for building, the poorer ones use mudbricks and straw. So in fact, it is more a matter of taste than practicality.                      Thirdly, wooden architectures aren't any easier to built than stone. I major in engineering and I can tell you that for a fact. Its true that stones are heavier to work with, but thats not a matter of more sophisticated skill, just more work. And the Chinese more than made up for that work with its intricate internal decoration and carvings, as well as the size of their buildings. The Wei Yang palace of the Han and the A Fan palace of the Qin are tens of times larger in area than any Greco-Roman palace. The city of Chang An also has a square area of 30 miles, by far the largest on earth.          Finally, living standard in the cities is a result of food production, money circulation, and even city planning, not to architecture. We have good grounds from records to suppose that Chinese living standards, especially in cities were higher at this time than anyother place. According to Du Yu, during the Kai Yuan period(713-741)  who described that rice in Chang An and Luo Yang to cost only 10 wen per Dou.(which is comparable to the cost in present day urban cities of China!) Du Yu further states that from then on that there were no expensive things in the empire. The cities were filled with grainaries, and rest stops for merchants, for thousands of Li, one does not have to bring weapons, and at night, they do not have to close the doors of their house.

Edited by greattang - 16-Jul-2007 at 14:26
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  Quote conon394 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 20:07

he Wei Yang palace of the Han and the A Fan palace of the Qin are tens of times larger in area than any Greco-Roman palace

But that assumes that the Romans considered Palaces the foremost element of a city something like the Forum of Trajan or the Circus Maximums were also much larger than Trajans Palace for example. 

Secondly, only the fairly wealthy in China use wooden material for building, the poorer ones use mudbricks and straw. So in fact, it is more a matter of taste than practicality.

You are not comparing apples to apples. The question is not wood vs. mud brick, but wood vs. fired bricks or stone set into cement (with wooden beams and iron or lead pins) a very different question altogether.

only 10 wen per Dou.

Sorry to be ignorant but can to cite a reference or a conversion for those monetary values and weight/volume? Since I understand you to be referring to the Tang dynasty period do you mean bronze bao coins or a gold weight.

According to Du Yu, during the Kai Yuan period(713-741)


In about 15 years things would hardly be that rosy...





Edited by conon394 - 17-Jul-2007 at 22:27
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  Quote Garvm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2007 at 12:29
Men... personnaly i prefer the greco-roman architecture.
For me its the most beautiful in the World.
 
Of course, in terms of personal taste, we should respect the opinions of others that have a diferent idea...
 
And if from an artistic perspective the two kinds of architecture cant be compared, from a technic perspective the Romans are better than the Chineneses.
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  Quote FrederickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 10:01
People keep saying when they went to Beijing etc etc, first Beijing was not a major city around in the flourishing eras of Chinese history.
Of which is far older than any of your medieval period, thus the architecture is much more heavily decayed and worn by hundreds of years. More over as a result of communist China a lot of damage was done to the architecture. Example would be the Great Wall which is before Christ by 200 years. That's 1200 years before the beginning of any real 'civilization' in central Europe.

However as for Greek, just go to the mall and ask 10 people whether they've heard of the Parthenon only maybe 2-3 will say yes.

Ask them if they have heard of the Great Wall of China I'd be surprised if any less than 10/10 have heard of it.

However I do admit that Good Architecture is spread out in Europe unlike China. As a result of Catholic domination splendid churches and cathedrals are built everywhere, where as in China all the good architecture is centred in large cities.
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  Quote raygun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 05:11
Check out this site to understand the concept of Chinese timber architectures: http://www.gdlngj.com/NewsView.asp?id=71, http://www.gdlngj.com/NewsView.asp?id=72 and: http://www.gdlngj.com/NewsView.asp?id=73
 
A short article on Chinese architecture: http://www.pasadena.edu/divisions/language/chinese/cultural/architecture.html

cheers


Edited by raygun - 06-Aug-2008 at 17:42
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  Quote Aurorum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 04:00
Hello! I'm new!

A fascinating read! Sleepy

Let us not forgot the six-thousand-year Western technological advantage: The wheel was introduced to Asia via the West; chemicals and batteries and advanced social-systems were developed by the Aryan empires (Egyptian, Persian, and Northern Indian); the Greek Antikythera device (an analogue computer) manufactured in 82B.C. was used to identify constellations; and Nikola Tesla, father of the 21st century.

Discovery and progress is difficult in societies which hold tradition above exploration; and if y' can't think of alternatives -- if your genetic combination does not allow for creativity and flexibility -- y' can't move ahead; stability (stagnation) is not progress.

Even now, China and Korea are using Russian technology for "their" space programs.

Nevertheless, we all have something to contribute!

Read "The Geography of Thought" by Richard E. Nisbett.
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  Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 04:44
Welcome to AE Aurorum! Hope you find yourself comfortable.
What is the officer problem?
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  Quote Aurorum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 05:42
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa

Welcome to AE Aurorum! Hope you find yourself comfortable.


Thank you very much! Sleepy
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 15:54
Originally posted by flyingzone

Medieval "skyscrapers" of San Gimignano, Italy.

 


Now imagine that the town featured originally several dozens of such towers in the Middle Ages. I have been there, still an amazing place.
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  Quote liyawei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2010 at 19:14
i admire European architectures, tall, firm, can stand the test of time. here are some cool chinese architectures, they are located at datong city of shan xi province,China
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=730061485

Edited by liyawei - 31-Oct-2010 at 19:15
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