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Geography of the Imperial Age

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Geography of the Imperial Age
    Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 14:10
Yes, I read the Wiki and it is interesting to see. I read the Piri Reis Map article.
 
The Lost Civilization of Atlantis perhaps? But as Eratosthenes made certain the size of the Earth with a mistake smaller than 600 km and the distance to the Sun with a mistake of less than 1%, then it is possible the Greeks indeed knew some very clever and interesting techinques.
 
But Atlantis is a good guess, I'd say, although Modern scientists usually consider it only a myth, it seems.
 
Do you have a picture of the al-Idrisi 1154 map? It is a good example of mentioning the Scandinavian areas, some cities and important routes.
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 11:08
Rider, the geography of the 15th century was a strange thing. Some  beleive, included and me, that the cartographers in that period used maps that belonged to others. Is known that they were collected and studied in the Great Library of Alexandria, some went into the Library of the Constantinople and the compilations of them were made by the cartographers who worked there.

It is well-known that the first civilization, according to the traditional history, developed in the mid-east around year 3 millenium  BC, soon to be followed within a millenium by the Indus valley and the Chinese ones. So, accordingly, none of the known civilizations could have done such a job. Who was here 4000 millenium BC, being able to do things that now are possible with the modern technologies? All through the Middle Ages were circulating a number of sailing charts called "portolanos", which were accurate maps of the most common sailing routes, showing coastlines, harbours, straits, bays, etc. Most of those portolanos focussed on the Mediterranean and the Aegean seas, and other known routes, just as the sailing book which Piri Reis himself had written.

The medieval maps were and are a big issue.

EDITED by Rider for spelling mistakes.


Edited by rider - 10-Sep-2006 at 09:53
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 10:45

Hmmh. I see the problem. But can't it be possible that the iceline was at that point during that period and has terribly grown afterwards?

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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 06:30
Originally posted by rider

Originally posted by akritas

The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an acurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maude Land could have been charted in an ice free state is 4000 BC
Sorry, couldn't get you here. Could you repeat what you said?

The geographical detail shown in the lower part of the map agrees very remarkably with the results of the seismic profile made across the top of the ice-cap by the Swedish-British Antarctic Expedition of 1951(I think).
This indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap.
The
ice-cap in this region is now about a mile thick.
How  Piri Reis found this the data that show on this map, that  can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographical knowledge in 16th century ?
The question (s) is: Who mapped the Queen Maude Land of Antarktic 6 milennium ago? Which unknown civilization had the technology or the need to do that?
Is not only Piri Reis map  but also Orondeus Fineus , Hadji Ahmed, Zeno e.t.c.
 
Edited by Rider: Corrected quoting of my post and your's.


Edited by rider - 09-Sep-2006 at 10:43
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 06:18
The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an acurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maude Land could have been charted in an ice free state is 4000 BC
 
Sorry, couldn't get you here. Could you repeat what you said?
 
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 04:28
Piri Reis had passion in  cartography. His high rank within the Turkish navy allowed him to have a privileged access to the  Imperial (x-Byzantine)  Library of Constantinople. The Turkish admiral admits in a series of notes on the map(Turkish members can we tell more details as about this)  that he compiled and copied the data from a large number of source maps, some of which dated back to the 4th BC or earlier.The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America  and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an acurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maude Land could have been charted in an ice free state is 4000 BC

Edited by akritas - 09-Sep-2006 at 04:30
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 03:59

Great, I knew you could help.

So the Ottomans had geographs. Interesting, althoguh my knowledge on the more well known Arabian ones is too bordered with al-Idrisi and ibn Battuta. Very well, were there any other significant Ottomans in that type of science?
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 17:32

1)

Piri Reis'(A famous Turkish seaman) map of the new world.(16th century)
 
Dutch cartograph Gerardus Mercator(16th century either)'s world map projection
 
 
 
2) It was basically French and Spanish who were most active in that era...As Portugal was annexed by Spain in 1580, it had lost her active colonization of 16th century.British had mostly began on colonization in 18th century, had began the activities in 17th century...Dutch were also active, in Brazil, US and Indonesia.


Edited by Kapikulu - 08-Sep-2006 at 17:34
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 15:09
We all known that the Early Modern and the Imperial Age period was a period of exploration, discoveries and expeditions to yet unseen lands. Many worldfamous people did their names during this era, we can say that if the WW I ended the period, Columbus started it; if not Columbus then atleast Vespucci, Magalhaes, Dias or any other of the known explorers.
 
This would be a topid to discuss them and ask questions, I would begin with a few.
 
1) Have there been any maps from the 1600's? Who were the most famous explorers for the contemporaries?
 
2) Which states supported exploration and colonization?
 
3) What do you think, who was the most famous explorer?
 
4) When were the world maps drawn and by whom, from the period of 1500-1800?
 
5) Was the starting of National Geography a good or a bad thing?

__________

6) Who were the first people to see Australia, Tasmania, Ceylon, New Zealand and Mauritius, Madagascar of the European nations? Did the explorers move there by rumours or were they accidental happenings?

7) Why did the Russian Empire (and other Empires) hire so many foreigner explorers?

8) Were sailors of certain nations willing to die for their secrets of new lands and routes there? How well were these secrets kept?

9) When was Svalbard discovered? Wikipedia says that 12th century by Rus and Vikings, but also that Barents in 1596 discovered it? When did Svalbard become known to other countries?

10) How quickly did rumours of new discoveries spread in Europe? Let us say that Cook discovers new lands at Australia: when would the King or Queen of England (presumably in London or Windsor) learn of this?

11) How well did the 16th century ships withstand ice and cold waters? How long could a ship sail northwards and come yet back? What were the skills of sailing in such regions? How fast were most ships?
 
 


Thanks for any replies,
Rider


Edited by rider - 10-Sep-2006 at 11:43
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