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The Kargil Conflict

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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Kargil Conflict
    Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 14:34
Well to be fair the book by Nawaz Sharif was only quoted on rediff. Are there any other quotes of Sharif's position on non Indian sites that can be corraborated? All this squabbling and a reader still cannot figure out what the truth is. If Nawaz Sharif did in fact give casualty figures would they not be echoed in at least some other place besides rediff? Even another Indian newspaper site?
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 01:03
Anyway Kargill is with us now. The food matters, forget the recipe. I agree that Pakis are gentecally very brave, but the hard fact is that their is a big word called bangladesh in the world & Kashmir is still controlled by India
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 04:44
Not all of kashmir. There is a chunk of it that china just waltzed in to and its happily just sitting there, snickering. India has done nothing about that. There is  1/3 of it that pakistan occupies. India is not doing anything about that. Then there is the section india occupies. With 700,000 troops which makes it a 1:3 ratio between troops and native male kashmiris or some proportion like that?


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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 05:10
Yes. Its a training field for the Indian army. Soldiers are sent ther for live training. Besides the weather is good.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 02:17
Training to fight civilians? But the parts held down by China and Pakistan are defended by professional armies, whats the goal here...

I that means India does not totally controls Kashmir. 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 02:21
Its occupied land contested by 3 of the most powerful countries of earth, of course India is going to have a large deployment there.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 02:43
But the deployment is not against professional armies, its against the civilian population...most of whom I suspect would want the Indians to leave permanently. And yes I know, they will say 700,000 troops are needed against the 50 or so shapeshifting jihadis that slip across the border every month. LOL
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 11:28
700,000 arnt deployed and Kashmiri's don't really like Pakistan either (search for a Kashmiri forum on the internet to see how they feel). What they do want is

As for a deployment, if we didnt (ignoring any resurgency) we still have our friend neighbours China and Pakistan with their own motives for the region.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 13:44
Oh really? I have heard the 700,000 figure over and over in many places. You are the first person that I have seen dispute it.
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  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 18:06
Well I hear a number closer to 500,000 and not that 700000 figure. Having 700000 troops in Kashmir would not be worth it, one nuke could wipe out a good portion of the Indian army and all 3 countries claiming Kashmir have them.

I can say that 700000 troops were deployed there after the attack on Indian parliament, I dont believe that all of the deployed troops are still there.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 18:10
I think your right Anuj,
During Kargil I think there were 600,000 Indian troops and 400,000 pakistani troops in kashmir. I don't think either side keeps up those deployments ordinarily
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 20:29
Well once again I will restate my point. The pakistani army does not fight kashmiri civilians, thats why hardly any are needed in kashmir. In fact the vast majority of army troops in POK are there to match the forces at Indian border posts and fortifications. The Indian army however has a dual role, standing guard against paki invasions and also supressing and intimidating kashmiri civilians. Its not really that hard to accept since you only have to look at the simple figures to realize the truth. And no, the Indian army is not there for summer vacations because of the nice weather like someone keeps insisting. 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 04:08
Totally agree maqsad, I just think your numbers are a tad too high.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 04:17
Originally posted by maqsad

Training to fight civilians? But the parts held down by China and Pakistan are defended by professional armies, whats the goal here...

I that means India does not totally controls Kashmir. 


No. Not to fight civilians. To fight terrorists trained in terrorist training camps in Pakistan.

No again, India does'nt control the whole of kashmir, but most of it, or rather the heart of it, the Kashmir valley, Ladakh, The populated portions. China was gifted a part of kashmir by pak in the hope that they will help pak in fighting india, which they did by providing  all help.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 04:21
Originally posted by maqsad

But the deployment is not against professional armies, its against the civilian population...most of whom I suspect would want the Indians to leave permanently. And yes I know, they will say 700,000 troops are needed against the 50 or so shapeshifting jihadis that slip across the border every month. LOL


You are right.  Same proportion as expenses of US & Eurpoe in Iraq & Afghanistan today, Israel's offensive against Hijbollah, or Russians in Chechnya. But they are needed.

And no, the Kashmiri would not want to go to Pak, On the contrary the Kashmiris living in POK would be happy to come to India.



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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 04:29
Originally posted by maqsad

Well once again I will restate my point. The pakistani army does not fight kashmiri civilians, thats why hardly any are needed in kashmir. In fact the vast majority of army troops in POK are there to match the forces at Indian border posts and fortifications. The Indian army however has a dual role, standing guard against paki invasions and also supressing and intimidating kashmiri civilians. Its not really that hard to accept since you only have to look at the simple figures to realize the truth. And no, the Indian army is not there for summer vacations because of the nice weather like someone keeps insisting. 


That is true but a necessary evil.

Why on earth do you think a small nation like Israel needs such high Military exenditure. Why did they put their whole might forward & destroy every significant thing visible in Lebonan.
Why does the US need such huge & vast forces in Iraq, Afghanistan. why is it ot able to trace Osama despite it being the US ?

Reason is a terrorist is a coward who hides behind the back of civilians under some ideological rubbish. He is difficult to identify.

That is the reason why the other half of the Pak army (whatever remains of it after taking away a great section for training the taliban & kashmiri terrorists.) is usy fighting the balooch civilians in Baloochistan.

That poor infirm man called Bugti had to be attached with the combined might of the pak army & air force. & he was just hiding in a cave.

The baloochi claim that chemical weapons were used in this attack by paki forces. Why such force against an old & infirm man.


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  Quote AP Singh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 04:42
The partition of India was most unfourtunate thing to happen. We  have artificial borders and not natural borders like mountains sea etc. Both side we are the same people except religion and the country. I hope that politicians of both the countries now will work toward peace and stop any kind of war including terrorism and that will help both the developing countries to grow at faster pace. The present situation is like a real brother is the biggest enemy of another real brother but friendly with other distant relatives.
 
Personally I dont think that the battle of Kargil was won by either side. It was like a situation that some dacoit have entered in to our house and we will allow them a safe passage only as a compromise (it was BJP shown it as a clear win and took complete credit of it to win the coming elections). In a clear win situation you dont have to compromise but capture or kill the dacoits. Similarly for dacoits also it is a lost case since they had to go without the booty and requested only for safe passage to save their life.
 
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 05:02
As always you are the most logical. And in any case there are more muslims in india than pak. A realignment would be better for everybody. heir was no pak before 47. If east germany could come back Why cant pak, but for the politicians & another benefit would be  that others ould also live in peace all across the land of balooch people, the land of Afghans / pathans etc.. etc..kashmir.....
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 05:05
One thing is that India didnt pursue them was because it wanted to look like a champion of peace, thats why the flushing out the pakis took a couple of months. otherwise the better military tactic was to cut of the supplies of the pak army which indian dodnt do because it wanted a diplomatic win as well which it got.
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 05:06
Originally posted by AP Singh

The partition of India was most unfourtunate thing to happen. We  have artificial borders and not natural borders like mountains sea etc. Both side we are the same people except religion and the country. I hope that politicians of both the countries now will work toward peace and stop any kind of war including terrorism and that will help both the developing countries to grow at faster pace. The present situation is like a real brother is the biggest enemy of another real brother but friendly with other distant relatives.
 
To an extent..but the people arent the same on both sides of the border - genetics has proven that when you cross the border into Pakistan there's a difference. The Sarawasti was always a partition, those on the left of the border practise Islam mainly, those on the right practise Hinduism.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 18-Sep-2006 at 05:10
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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