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Modern Democracy

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  Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern Democracy
    Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 01:09
Whats the origin of modern democracy?


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Cywr View Drop Down
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 02:24
Its a system that gradualy evolved into place with no singular point of origin.
Lots of fancy romantic tales tracing it back to this or that ancient old fart, but largley hype IMHO.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 02:58

On the other hand I would say that the idea sprung out from spesific conditions and social structure, that existed 2500 years ago in ancient Greece. The main one was the existance of a class of free small farmers and their contribution to the military life of the city state. Once one takes the arms to defend his city/state then he has the right to demand a saying in its politics.

That was the start and it all evolved from here.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 04:35

Modern democracy is a mixture of the germanic ierarchical tribal "government" (surely an exaggeration) and the Roman Republic - and the product of a few centuries of evolution. It's name is that of the Athenian Democracy, but in reality there is extremely very little in the current representative oligarchies that reminds the wholesale democracy of the Ancient Greeks. 



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 08:28
IIRC the first countries that became somewhat democratic after the middle ages were England, the Netherlands and Sweden (Iceland was democratic since it was colonized already). So it's obvious it has a Germanic base. For the US democracy some elements of the Iroqious were taken. I think they didn't want to say they got their ideas from savage Germanics and Indians, so they said they've got it from the Greeks. In fact until the 19th century Sparta was more popular than Athens.
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  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 11:09

That's rather innacurate, Sparta was never popular among clacissists, irregardles of the timeframe: Sparta has no literature, no philosophy, no drama, no historians, no nothing. How could clacisstists love the unsophisticated Spartans and hold them higher to the refined, well-versed, extremely sophisticated Athenians who invented philosophy, excelled in the fine arts, layed the foundations for the evolution of science, not to mention that they invented democracy - the actual democracy, not the travesty that bears its name nowadays.

So, no, the scholars throughout the ages, at least after the 15th century when they got freed from the boundaries of the medieval ignorance, looked back to the Athenians for inspiration.

But since they belonged exclusively to the elites of their times, that made them to overlook the most fundamental prerequisite for an actual democracy: the representation and active participation of all the free citizen in the common affairs. Their compromise - and that only after centuries of struggle by the "lower classes" - was to allow them a vote. And the active citizen of the 5th century Athens, became the sheepish voter of the 20th century western world.

And they call that democracy...

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 13:45
That's rather innacurate, Sparta was never popular among clacissists, irregardles of the timeframe: Sparta has no literature, no philosophy, no drama, no historians, no nothing.

I didn't mean the culture, but the policical/social model.
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  Quote Romano Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 16:53

Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli


I didn't mean the culture, but the policical/social model.

 

This is still highly innacurate. The social system of Sparta was a tad bit above tribal organization, it was extremely primitive compared to the Athenian one, they had a horrendous economic model, in humanitarian terms they were one of the most cruel societies ever (wasting the unwanted infants, hunting down helots for sport, analogy one free citizen for 10 or 12 helots, the whole town a great military camp etc. etc.) so nobody, save some avid militarists and military leaders (and maybe the KKK and Adolf H. later on) could or would seek inspiration in the ways of the Spartans.

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