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New Middle East Borders !
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Vivek Sharma 
Arch Duke 
Joined: 22-Aug-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1775 |
 Topic: New Middle East Borders !Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 07:36 |
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In Assam, Ulfa & Bodos are fighting for separate states as their states have been swamped by bangladeshi migrants & Hindus are becoming minority. Nagaland was a problem earlier, but no more, the insurgency has ended with the naga accord although differences with neighbouring stat tribura over boundry issue remain, but thats an internal matter plus or minus a few sq. km. on each side. |
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Vivek Sharma
Arch Duke
Joined: 22-Aug-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1775 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 07:39 |
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naga land can never become a big problem as the adjoining lands & nagaland itself would be swamped by illegal migrations of Bangladeshis so as to reduce the percentage of the nagas in population as in Assam. So the enemy for the nagas would be these migrants against whom the whole of India would be fighting.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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malizai_
Sultan 
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 12:06 |
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Oh please!!!!, how does turkey defend the borders of Europe? Just how exactly?
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Bulldog
Caliph 
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 15:15 |
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The Kurdish gangs you speak of operated in Anatolia, not Iran - Kurds in Iran had nothing to do with them.
Ofcourse they did, Kurds from Iran came to Van to fight against the Armenians.
In a few years they will control Iran you say? Iran is not a country ruled by ethnicities, the sooner ignoramuses such as yourself realise this, the better your assessments will be. Iran has been multicultural since its inception 2800 years ago, we do not care for your ethnic hatred spreading.
Chill out man, I was just repeating what I was told, there are Azeri in Iran who don't want to seperate because they feel they are taking control of Iran and then will be able to change it. Persians were dominant since after WW1 with the Shah's, they enforced their Persian-centric view but it ultimately failed and led way to the Islamic revolution. If you don't care about ethnics what's the problem with the a more pro-all ethnics in Iran policy.
This is assimilation 2000 years of Turkish and Azarbaijani repression could never achieve.
If Turks wanted to they could have very easily erased any trace and completely assimilated the whole of Iran. Before the Turks it was ruled by Arabs anyway, by the time Turks fully ruled Iran that fabled Iranian mumbo-jumbo was no more. All that remains is a few romantics trying to carry it on.
What the Shah after WW1 did however was total repression, calling Turks donkeys and stupid Persians who think their Turks among his other racist ideas.
What Azari rights do you speak of?
If you take time to speak with them you discover them, they feel their language should be official or at least regional official, they want to learn their language in school, learn their history without the anti-Turk bias, embrace with their culture openly without discrimination etc etc
the ultra repressive Turkey and Rep of Azarbaijan.
I think your wife getting lashed by a whip for not wearing a piece of fabric on her
head or even if she does if it has a flower that's more lashes is what I'd call "ultra-repressive".
Overall the area of Iran I visited was very nice, I really hope that this problem with the U.S is sorted out without a war.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Argentum Draconis
Samurai 
Joined: 02-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 130 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 15:37 |
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Really? Do you have any stories?
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Zagros
Emperor 
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 17:15 |
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Utter bull... the Kurdish Bandits were Ottoman Kurds in league with, directed and ruled by the Ottoman Turks.. there was no affinity with the Osmanli anywhere in Iran, they were hated by all and were seen as mortal enemies.
Oh boohoo our language isn't official so it's dying! it has nothing to do with us not being able to preserve it, but it is the fault of the big bad Persians! (AS EVER).
***What gibberish! Paranoid nonsense spread by chehrengali and his cronies, no doubt. only good for mocking.
chauvinistic bull... More information from your reliable websites? you astutely demonstrate your level of knowledge on Iran and its history, or sorry... lack thereof.
I sincerely doubt you were ever in Iran, as if any joe off the street in Urumieh would be so into the birth rates and the rest of Zaries vrs Persians and weighting the probabilities of Azaries ruling Iran in a fw years. LOL.
oh here, you do know Iran's de facto dictator an Azari right?
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Zagros
Emperor
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 17:17 |
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Kurds isolated in Khazakhstan by Stalin still retain their Kermanchi langauge, maybe these cry baby people you are speaking of should take a leaf out of their book.
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Bashibozuk
Consul 
Joined: 01-Feb-2006 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 316 |
Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 18:58 |
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Iran is a theocratic state, based on religious identity instead of ethnic/national unity, so it can be considered homogenious with a Shia majority over 80%. Though ethnic rights have not been on the country's agenda since 1979, nationalism seems to uprise nowadays. The shah regime has oppressed the Azeri Turks, by a nationalist policy, altough the Islamic revolution was lead by many Azeri leaders, and the majority of Azeris keep their religious identity above their ethnonational one. Nobody should think I have any intentions to support any seperatism in our neighbor states. But Azeris still don't have their own schools, Azeri language is still unofficial. How many Azeri TV-radio channels does Iran have? How many newspapers or Azeri Turkish works are published in Iran? Or how does the Iranian regime treat to Kashkay, to Turkmens or to Arabs?
Since the topic isn't about how beautiful, ancient and ethnically diverse Iran is, or how much political propoganda we can share here about Iran (positive or negative), I'll just end this issue with a link of amnesty international, not to provoke or support seperatism, but to prevent forumers to act like so knowledgable on issues which are more complicated then they dream of.
Iran, like other states in Middle East and other regional powers who function as alternate players in the middleeastern playground should stay unified, since we have all witnesed the consequences of Balkanisation in such dangerous circumstances.
BTW, that map is deeper and hotter, and darker, and wetter than a sick bull's shi*.
With the Turks, the Persian civilisation revived, so as their cultural values. And with the Persians, the Turkish identity could preserve itself free of Ottoman ummatism, in a new world, Middle East. And that new synthesis was the reason how Turkish and Persian cultures are still alive, together.
So I guess rather than acting like a mirror to idiotic nationalist statements, we should keep our conscience alive against provocatators.
Edited by Bashibozuk - 05-Sep-2006 at 19:00 |
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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar. Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar, Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben. |
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Zagros
Emperor
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 03:30 |
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Why should it be official? There is only one national language - the Azari (Turkic one) language has survived 800 years without a problem while Persian has always been the official langauge. Even Timurleng's official language was Persian, and Timurleng, if you could read his memoirs (they are in Persian) did try to annihilate Iran and half succeeded.
Ever heard of Sahar 1 and Sahar 2? Sahar 1 broadcasts exclusively in Azari. Like I said before, Azaries from deprived areas of Rep of Azarbaijan (most of the country) are emmigrating every day to Iran, so it can't be that bad for them, can it?
Most of the information you gather is from Turkish sources on the matter right? and I have sampled them, they are poisoned by SANAM disinformation. Any moron can write to Amnesty and have something like that published, and believe me they do. Interesting how the article had no source or author cited and spelled Babak wrong. The crack downs on the castle are not against Turks, they are against the memory of Babak Khorammdin who is considered a Kaffir and murderer of Muslims. Obviously the crackdowns have been utitlised by the usual suspects.
Another irony is that Babak was not even a Turk. Edited by Zagros - 06-Sep-2006 at 03:38 |
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Zagros
Emperor
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 03:32 |
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Can someone give details of the Shah's oppression of Azaries? from what I know, half of his Cabinet and his wife were Azari.
It was revived under the Samanid (the founder of which was a Zaroastrian convert to Islam) and Saffarid Iranic dynasties and sucked in the subsequent Turkic dynasties.
Basi ranj bordam dar in sal si,
ajam zende kardam bedin Parsi.
^ Ferdowsi - during Samanid reign. Much toil did I fortake in these thirty years, I re-awakened the Ajam to Persian. Edited by Zagros - 06-Sep-2006 at 03:37 |
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Bashibozuk
Consul
Joined: 01-Feb-2006 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 316 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 05:29 |
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True that the first "national" characteristics appeared in their region, but the real enlightment began with Ferdavs, and right after his influence, the Seljuks totally conquered Iran by 1039. Tughrul Beg was the first one to revive Persian civilisation and especially art, not the Samanids.
Tughrul Beg was the first to revive Parthian and Sassanid architecture. Look at the Friday mosque in Isfahan. Seljuks were the ones who made Isfahan nasf e jehan, not the native Samanids or Buwayids. All post-Islam figures of ersia who have fame and success lived during the Seljuk period. Nizam'ul Mulk (the best states man, grand vizier of Seljuk Empire), Omar Khayyam (author of Rubayat), Mevlna Celaleddin-i Rm (who revived Persian philosophy and poetry). And even after Seljuks, the Safavid dynasty revived ancient Iranian names, sagas and epics of Ferdevs.
Can you tell me if you said it "without" any nationalistic point of view sincerely? If so, you may also care to elaborate it.
So what? That's natural, about fourty percent of Iran is Turkic, so half of his cabinet being Turkic doesn't sound so irregular.
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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar. Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar, Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben. |
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 05:51 |
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If i may take the liberty to jump in, but it must be said that turks have time and again adopted persian in their courts and have fostered the culture and language of iranian courts, so to suggest that the Persians are somehow responsible for the decline in turkishg language or dialects is misinformation to say the least. |
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Bulldog
Caliph
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 15:17 |
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Ofcourse they did, Kurds from Iran came to Van to fight against the Armenians.
Utter bull... the Kurdish Bandits were Ottoman Kurds in league with, directed and ruled by the Ottoman Turks.. there was no affinity with the Osmanli anywhere in Iran, they were hated by all and were seen as mortal enemies.
In those days religion meant more than ethnicity, most Kurds are Sunni
they liked the Ottomans more, the Kurdish Beys had regional power and
control over Kurds
 Oh boohoo our language isn't official so it's dying! it has nothing to do with us not being able to preserve it, but it is the fault of the big bad Persians! (AS EVER).
***What gibberish! Paranoid nonsense spread by chehrengali and his cronies, no doubt. only good for mocking.
Why shouldn't it be an official language? Azeri Turks of Iran if not now will be the clear majority in the next decade. Its ridiculous to have the majority populations language not respected as an official language of the country. The Persian Shah after the WW1 outlawed Turkish and made it a crime to be a Turk, why do you try to hide this? the Shah's gone and has no chance of returning, they screwed up and didn't succeed.
Sticking your head in the sand won't change anything. The Azeri led four successfull revolutions in the last century. It was Shariatmadari who was key in the Islamic revolution, he rallied the Azeri.
Now its time to address the issues, Azeri Turks want their language to be officially recognised, to be educated in their language, for their culture to be accepted, promoted and their identity accepted for what they are not what they want to be.
 This was Tabriz this year, it would be better to address these issues to avoid civil unrest, they don't want alot most still want to be part of Iran just want rights and for their identity and language to be accepted, acknowledged and embraced. The Western powers will try and use anything they can against Iran, its best for Iran to grant rights and bring the people closer in rather than distance them and play into the divisionists hands.
If Turks wanted to they could have very easily erased any trace and completely assimilated the whole of Iran. Before the Turks it was ruled by Arabs anyway, by the time Turks fully ruled Iran that fabled Iranian mumbo-jumbo was no more. All that remains is a few romantics trying to carry it on. chauvinistic bull... More information from your reliable websites? you astutely demonstrate your level of knowledge on Iran and its history, or sorry... lack thereof.
I sincerely doubt you were ever in Iran, as if any joe off the street in Urumieh would be so into the birth rates and the rest of Zaries vrs Persians and weighting the probabilities of Azaries ruling Iran in a fw years. LOL.
The only thing chauvanist is your narrow-minded view which see's anything Turk as a big threat. Iran today is a result of Arabs and Turks, the religion of Iran, its borders, its history for almost two millenia, its ethnic make-up and so on. Its a shame some people still believe the Shah;s silly stories that Persians are supreme Aryan beings while all Arabs and Turks did was destroy Iran and Persians.
Who said I was speaking to any Joe Blogggs, there are many powerfull Azeri Turks in Tabriz area Its they who say there slowly taking control and putting themselves in the key positions. |
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Zagros
Emperor
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 15:59 |
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Exactly.
Bulldog, you bring nothing to the table except conjecture and the regurgitation of propaganda, furthermore you know nothing of Kurds, you even opined that we all speak the same language.
Why don't you prove that Iran's Kurds were in any way in league witht he Ottomans instead of stating that because they were sunnies, they sided with them. Like I said, you bring nothing to the table. Iranian Kurds , whatever their religion were not a part of the Ottoman polity and the atrocities in iran were carried out by Ottoman troops not locals.
And while we are on the topic, why doesn't Turkey make Kermanchi an official language? The Kurds there are fighting a full war because their rights are completely denied, an easy way to quell them and take their support away would be to give some cultural concessions, but that is unacceptible for the fascists that control that country.
Do you even know the story behind that picture you showed? It was a demonstration against a characature depicting Azaries as cockroaches, drawn by an Azari artist... the publication was shut down immediately and the protests were also crushed, just like another in tehran for women's rights at the same period.
Persian is the official language, what a STUPID proposition to have two or more langauges as official! In a few years one side of the country would not be able to communicate with the other... Or is that the idea? lol
Threatened by Turks? If they want an official Azari Language then they can separate from Iran, vacate non-Azari territories and take their mullahs with them, simple as that - but we know that will never happen, the unionists are too many and too strong. Azari will never be an official language, it is a local language and its speakers should promote it, not central government.
Edited by Zagros - 06-Sep-2006 at 16:18 |
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Cent
Chieftain 
Joined: 20-Jun-2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 1013 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 16:53 |
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Azeri and other languages in Iran (Kurdish and balouchi), should be taught in schools where these people live. Why not have 2-3 classes a week to focus on your own language.
Btw Bulldog, do you speak Turkish? I'm wondering, because how did you comunicate with the locals in Iran?
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
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Argentum Draconis
Samurai
Joined: 02-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 130 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:27 |
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He is a Turk in disguise.
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Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 1013 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:34 |
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rgentum Draconis, that's what I think also. But I don't know, he said he's from England or something. |
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
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Argentum Draconis
Samurai
Joined: 02-Apr-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 130 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:37 |
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You know the meaning of disguise? |
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Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 1013 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:39 |
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Yeah...
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
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Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 1013 |
Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:41 |
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But how can you be so sure?
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
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