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Anatolians before Turks
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Argentum Draconis View Drop Down
Samurai
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Argentum Draconis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anatolians before Turks
    Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 14:56
What languages were spoken in Anatolia before their mother language became Turkish?
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Atabeg

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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 15:55
greek, arabian, armenian, georgian, Lazic  and persian but I think mostly greek since the byzantine empire was dominant.
 
the bigger "variation" of languages or more languages were spoken before the roman empire.
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 267 		  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 18:20

in thracia,  marmorian region, coastal pontic region , aegean region  and mediterranean region pronbably spoke hellenic languages, in  Eastern Anatolia and parts of Southern Anatolia Eastern Armenian dialects dominated, In Eastern Pıntic regions Laz and Georgian was spoken , in souteastern borders of conteporary Turkey was Arabic language area  beside other semitic languages. There was no Kurdish.  Because Kurds and Turks came to Anatolia together, Turks conquered Kurds settled.
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2006 at 19:19
I thought Kurds lived there long before Turks...I know one of the 30 provinces of Greater Armenia was called Corduene...
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 04:12
Originally posted by mamikon

I thought Kurds lived there long before Turks...I know one of the 30 provinces of Greater Armenia was called Corduene...
 
that makes 2 of us.
 
btw this thread should be anatolia befor the greeks. I think the number of spoken languages was higher before the grees came to that region.
 
or am I wrongBig smile 
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Argentum Draconis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 04:57
Since Greeks didnt come after Turks my title includes that. Any new information would be welcome i wonder what languages had been spoken in Anatolia.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 08:19
How so If greeks already was the dominant language the turks just replaced that with turkish. So other languages were lost before the turks at the arrival of greeks.
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 267 		  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 12:24
Originally posted by xi_tujue

Originally posted by mamikon

I thought Kurds lived there long before Turks...I know one of the 30 provinces of Greater Armenia was called Corduene...
 
that makes 2 of us.
 
btw this thread should be anatolia befor the greeks. I think the number of spoken languages was higher before the grees came to that region.
 
or am I wrongBig smile 
No you are not.
Corduene comprised the area  in the south of van lake towards the  tigris in the west. But today Kurds are spread a much larger area than that.
Considered where Corduene was located, there cannot be said to be Anatolia. To understand better. Actual borders of Anatolia is a direct line from Artvin to Iskenderun 
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 15:24
In byzantine empire it was common practice to resettle people from differet nationalities in order to heterogenize them in particular place or hhomogenize in the whole empire. This made easier to rule them and to avoid signifficant revolts. Thus I know that large part of bulgarians were resettled to this regionsand even that they had sort of autonomous kingdom when turk came. Some of them that are known are
1. 30 000   Macedonian slavs resettled at 690.
2. 208000 slavs that were run from bulgarian king Telets.
3. Bulgarians resettled by Boris, the bulgarian killer.
 
As I said they had small kingdom with the only known king womqan Ekaterina.  This kingdom ismention in "History of Karaman" ("something like "Tavarikh-e al-e-Karaman") which is known in three different variants and all of them contain the information abouth these bulgarians.  They were orthodox and partially muslims as far as I understood. Some of turkish historians rekon that modern turkish speaking orthodox in those places are their descendants.
 
Localization of the place is Bulgar dagh (correct me please if I am werong with pronounciation). The information about it you can find if you search turkish historian  Nedzhip Asem (again may be wrong, I just spelled from bulgarian text) and his ANATULUDA BULGARLAR-1, published in the newspaper "Ikdam" 27.10.1921.
 
 
Sorry for that messy post, I tried to summarize a bit information from different sorces. Those who understand bulgarian may be reffered to
 
 
 
 


Edited by Anton - 22-Jul-2006 at 15:24
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 15:46
Originally posted by xi_tujue

How so If greeks already was the dominant language the turks just replaced that with turkish. So other languages were lost before the turks at the arrival of greeks.
 
Do not mix official and dominant. These langages are still spoken there to some degree, so how could they be dominated before?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 16:15
like english is the dominant language of the world but not the official chinese and spanish has more speakers but still english is used more widely and has more how do say importance
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 17:59
Originally posted by xi_tujue

like english is the dominant language of the world but not the official chinese and spanish has more speakers but still english is used more widely and has more how do say importance
 
That is right. But does that mean that all other languages were replaced by dominating in Anatolia? Look at Ottoman Empire. Dominating language is turkish but many people spoke and still speak their own languages depending on nationality. Domination does not mean replacement. And by the way this multicultural and multilingual content always adds some inflections and nuances to the let say basic culture. That is why I really like the original question.


Edited by Anton - 22-Jul-2006 at 18:02
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 18:37
but how do you explain that the hittit language an sevral other "disapeared" I think that was before the turks. Before the turks came to anatolia they stoped in iran or Iraq so they allready spoke persian or arabic right?
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Anton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 21:08
Originally posted by xi_tujue

but how do you explain that the hittit language an sevral other "disapeared" I think that was before the turks. Before the turks came to anatolia they stoped in iran or Iraq so they allready spoke persian or arabic right?
 
Are you sure that they disappeared? Are you sure that they do not persist in modern turkish language at least partially?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 08:34
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by xi_tujue

but how do you explain that the hittit language an sevral other "disapeared" I think that was before the turks. Before the turks came to anatolia they stoped in iran or Iraq so they allready spoke persian or arabic right?
 
Are you sure that they disappeared? Are you sure that they do not persist in modern turkish language at least partially?
 
I think that they were long gone before the turkish migration
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Argentum Draconis View Drop Down
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Argentum Draconis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 11:15
This isnt being hepful at all, can someone tell for example which language were spoken in Ankara? Or Erzincan? Those areas are far to both Greek and Armenian influence.

Edited by Argentum Draconis - 23-Jul-2006 at 11:17
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 11:44
I heard ankara was an old hittit city so there language.
 
but I thought the byzantne empire coverd almost all of anatolia
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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These sites may be helpful:
 
 
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Posts: 84 		  Quote Pacifist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 18:00
Originally posted by Tangriberdi

There was no Kurdish.  Because Kurds and Turks came to Anatolia together, Turks conquered Kurds settled.
Kurdish people migrated from the Eurasian steppes in the second millennium B.C. and joined indigenous inhabitants living in the region. Kurds settled in Anatolia thousands of years earlier than Turks. 

Edited by Pacifist - 25-Jul-2006 at 18:05


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Posts: 267 		  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 14:31
Originally posted by Pacifist

Originally posted by Tangriberdi

There was no Kurdish.  Because Kurds and Turks came to Anatolia together, Turks conquered Kurds settled.
Kurdish people migrated from the Eurasian steppes in the second millennium B.C. and joined indigenous inhabitants living in the region. Kurds settled in Anatolia thousands of years earlier than Turks. 
That is not true. If it is true, show me any example of any monuments built by Kurds.
A cistern, an inn, a palace, a castle, an arc. There is nothing  that proves the exitence of Kurds in Anatolia ( not meant South of the Van Lake) before Turks.
Any travellers did not write about Kurds before Turks. Also we have many historical records confirming that  alittle amount of Kurds entered  beyond Tigris and North of the Van lake with the Armies of Seljukids. Later just because the Shiite and Sunnite fights between Persia and Ottoman Empire many Sunnite Kurds were  invited and settled by ottoman reign to Anatolia and much morein number  Alawite Turcımans were exiled from the region to Iran. It is very well known that the region started  to become Kurdicized in 1600s.
 
Do not distort the truth.
 
Andf I do not believe you to be Turkish, it is impossible that a Turk exists who supports Israeli massacres  and repeats the PKK thesis about Kurds in Anatolia.
You must be a Kurd from Turkey. I will not go on with you.
This is my  last answer to you .
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