Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Top 100 Generals

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 122123124125126 128>
Author
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Top 100 Generals
    Posted: 08-Mar-2010 at 19:51
I would have to nominate that strange general of the Armies of Eastern Rome, who we now know by the name Belisarius!

No one can imagine how hard it was for him and his armies to actually control a hostile area far from his base and to fight another genius of a general at the same time! But, that was only one of his supposed great works!

If one takes the time to take apart the name by which we now know him, it could be imagined that it means "Bellum" or "War" leader, or Caesar? Of maybe "Belle" as in "Great" or "Wonderful" or "Beautiful" leader or Caesar?

Because, you see,I consider Caesar/Kaisar, etc., to mean something closer to "General" than anything else! But, possibly "Premier", or merely "Ier", is a close second?

Maybe the name could have even be better spelled as "Veli-sarius?"










Edited by opuslola - 08-Mar-2010 at 19:53
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Qerat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Location: UAE
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Qerat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2010 at 04:32
with all due respect to all the great figures in the list, i believe that Khalid bin Al Waleed is one of the greatest generals of all time and he should be at least in the top 5 if not above all. unfortunately there are few resources in English that support my claim but looking at his battles and the results it is simply clear that his achievements outshines all. he fought against the two superpowers of his time; byzantine and Sassanian Persia. he defeated force at least 4 times his number. his tactics are brilliant despite that he did not attain any form of military education or otherwise. until today his achievements are clear, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine and the arabian peninsula speak Arabic and most of its people are Muslims due to his victories.  
History is to know the future
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 19:10
My next best might well be Robert E. Lee? But there are certainly others in the "battlefield?"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 23:25
Originally posted by Qerat

with all due respect to all the great figures in the list, i believe that Khalid bin Al Waleed is one of the greatest generals of all time and he should be at least in the top 5 if not above all. unfortunately there are few resources in English that support my claim but looking at his battles and the results it is simply clear that his achievements outshines all. he fought against the two superpowers of his time; byzantine and Sassanian Persia. he defeated force at least 4 times his number. his tactics are brilliant despite that he did not attain any form of military education or otherwise. until today his achievements are clear, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine and the arabian peninsula speak Arabic and most of its people are Muslims due to his victories.  
 
Cruelty and bravery are two different thigns, a conqueror with the first one doesn't need "any form of military education or otherwise", but just need to kill with no mercy, Jarir al-Tabari, one of the greatest Muslim historians, says about Khalid ibn al-Walid after a battle against another Muslim named "Malik ibn Nuwayrah":
 
فضرب عنقه و جعل رأسه أحد أثافي قدر طبخ فيها طعام ثمّ تزوج خالد بالمرأة
 
It means Khalid beheaded him, used his flesh to cook food and married his wife!
 
Meanwhile twelve successive kings in just few years and several other events in the last years of the Sassanid period show that the Sassanid empire would fall without the Arab invasion too, so it can't be said that Khalid really did a great work. Fall of the Sassanids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Sassanids
 
And of course Iranians don't speak Arabic! Wink
 
Back to Top
Qerat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Location: UAE
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Qerat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 03:30
thank you for your interesting reply. i agree that cruelty and barvery are two different things but i do not see how that is related to Khalid. the passage you reffered to is not accurate and was if it is was written centuries latter while there are more recent narratives to his life and accomplishments which did not mentioned that he ate his flesh. Al Tabari is a great historian and he himself mentions in his great book that the stories that are mentioned were not checked for accuracy rather his goal was to collect narratives.

to mention that the Sassanian was would fall any how is due to the constant change of kings is not a strong argument. byzantine had the same experience and still survived another 1000 year under Muslim constant attack. Sassanian were able to field numerous armies counting between 30,000 to 250,000 or more in one battle. to be able to defeat an army that is superior in number and weapon is not just luck. Khalid was able to defeat Sassanian and Byzantines the same. facing superior numbers and weapons.

even if your argument is valid everyone in the list was cruel to the verge of being a criminal. napoleon, Jenkins khan Timurid, and others did not just kill one person they massacred entire population. mention to me where Khalid attacked non combatants or killed POW.

many people in iran speak arabic or at least understyand some of it. they also recite the quran which is in arabic. the religoius scholars in Qom for sure have to learn Arabic. my point was that his military triumphs have till today an impact on the people living in those parts of the world.
History is to know the future
Back to Top
egg View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 12-Jun-2009
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
  Quote egg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 08:07
At least as regards the siege of Jerusalem, the hallmark of Khalid was his generosity.  The siege was bloodless, and after the surrender by the Patriarch Sophronius to the Caliph Umar was accepted both Jews and Christians were allowed to worship there, subject to paying the usual tax payable by non-Muslims, the jizya.   It is a matter of historical fact that many of the Jews converted to Islam to avoid payment of the jizya, with the reult that the present conflict in Palestine is largely between the descendants of Palestinian Jews who remained observant (or descendants of the Khazars who adopted judaism) on the one hand, and the descendants of Palestinian Jews whose ancestors had converted to Islam.   One certainly can't tell by looking at a Palestinian whether his religion is Jewish, Christian or Muslim.   Be that as it may, Khalid was said to have been undefeated in over 100 battles, and he was largely responsible for uniting Arabia and extending Muslim rule over much of the Middle East and North Africa.   Certainly one of the great generals, and I would not dispute his right to be included in the top 5.
To arrive at a just estimate of a renowned man's character one must judge it by the standards of his time, not ours: Mark Twain
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 10:17
Khalid is really overrated, he never put his foot on Persia, not even Iran and he didn't conquer any empire, he just captured some cities in southern Iraq when a woman was ruling the Persian empire, I think some other Arab generals like Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas were really greater than him, Sa'd can be considered as the real conqueror of the Persian empire, he participated in the major battle between Persians and Arabs and could defeat a great Persian general, namely Rostam Farrokhzad.
Back to Top
Kanas_Krumesis View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2009
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 326
  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 10:20
I think the reason for Sassanid defeat is complex:
 
1. Sassanid Persia had waged war for several decades with Byzantine empire for world domination. During Shah Khosrau ІІ Parviz they manage to conquest all of Armenia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and bigger part of Anatolia. This was connect with big effort from whole iranian society. From military aristocracy to the every single peasant. The economy and trade also suffer. Then suddenly Sassanids lost almost all achievements and this made deep psychological impact and create spirit of defeatism. In that moment Arabs just watched and underhand prepared for attack. I remember one thought of Chinese communist leader Mao Zedong about Chinese attitude during Cold War: "We must be like the smart monkey-to wait on the tree while the both tigers fight each other to death and finally get off the tree and finish with them!"
2. Arabs knew well military tactics of Persia and Byzantine, because they served as a mercenary to the both side. They knew the weak points and planed how to take an advantage.
3. Their tactics gain over attacks-escape and then counterattack. Light Arabian force used that Iranian cavalry were heavy armoured and hourses couldn`t endure long range pursue. They counterattack when iranian horses get tired. At The battle of the bridge (634) when Arabs and Sassanid army crushing frontal, Arabs were smashed and their leader Abu Ubaid killed. They never did this mistake again.
4. Sassanid general Rustan was a duffer. He personally despise Arabs and belittle his enemy. He sought for general battle (Battle of al-Qādisiyyah) in every prize and for three days of attempts totally exhausted his men. Arabs also had big dose of chance. Dust storm during Battle of Yamouk disorientate huge Byzantine military force and saved Arabs from totally defeat. Something more-they manage to do sucсessful strikes and put the enemy to flight.  
Back to Top
Qerat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Location: UAE
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Qerat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 21:02
thank guys for participating in this wonderful discussion.

i m amazed on how we attribute greatness to Jenkins khan who united his mongol tribes and attacked Superior forces and not mentioning once that his counterpart were on the decline or incompetent. this does not belittle Jenkins' military accomplishments in that he was able to conquer the largest empire in history. but when it comes to Arabs or Muslims it is different. it was the weaknesses of their adversaries that enabled them to deafest them by luck or any other way not their inherent abilities and accomplishments.

saying that if it was not for the storm Muslims would have been defeated in yarmook is an overstatement that really needs validation. 30000 or so arabs fighting at least 70,000 or more Byzantines and were able to defeat them completely and you are attributing it to weather. or that he defeated an empire led by a woman. lets not go into that. or that Jews converted to Islam and after 1400 years showed their true faith and is the reason of the current conflict. please please please.
it was one of the conditions of the patriarch of Jerusalem when he signed with Omar not to allow Jews to enter the city. there were no Jews in the city in the first place when Muslims besieged it as the Romans have evicted them centuries ago and prohibited them from going back or even to visit. it was during the ottomans that the Jews were allowed to settle in Jerusalem.

we are discussing here whether Khalid as a army commander was one of the greatest of all time or at least in the top 5. there should be certain criteria to determine this. lets agree on these standards as  we may call them and apply them to all the ones in the list and see how they rate.
History is to know the future
Back to Top
Teg View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 29-Apr-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
  Quote Teg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2010 at 13:14
f**k, must first be Genghis KhanAngry

Edited by Teg - 29-Apr-2010 at 13:15
Back to Top
Hrodvitnir9 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-Apr-2010
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Hrodvitnir9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 05:57
How about Hernan Cortez? He landed in Mexico with 200 soldiers and ended up conquering an empire with 500,000 soldiers.
Back to Top
seventhcavalry View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 25-May-2010
Location: now-dubai
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
  Quote seventhcavalry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2010 at 11:29
crazy horse !!!!  (sioux leader)
parminio!!!!  (alexander's best commander)
Genghis Khan!!!!
the man above your right ! How about Hernan Cortez,william wallance,hitler,....???
-waiting for change-
Back to Top
Tazjet View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 20-May-2010
Location: New Zealand
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 58
  Quote Tazjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2010 at 17:43
Very under sung and almost unknown general of WW2 who almost changed the entire course of WW2 General Sir Richard O'Connor.

He was the field commander of of the Western Desert Force against a much larger and better equipped Italian army in Libya. Usingt high mobility tactics which Rommel was later praised for this British desert fox out-flanked and routed the entire Italian tenth army in eastern Libya in November 1940.

With less than 30,000 troops O'Connor took prisoner 115,000 troops 1290 artillery guns, 400 tanks plus 1,100 aircraft in Operation Compass. 32,000 Italian troops fled west and escaped capture.

The almost total anihilation of Axis forces in Lybia forced Germany to enter the North African campaign squandering massive resources which denied the Axis war effort in Europe. O'connor was captured by a German patrol and spent much of the war as a POW.

However whether in failure or defeat he still changed the course of the war and his victories against a far greater force of Italians was a stunning achievement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Connor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Compass


Edited by Tazjet - 27-May-2010 at 17:46
Back to Top
Sarmata View Drop Down
Consul
Consul

suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 314
  Quote Sarmata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 00:14
Gustav II is in 12, and Stanislaw Konicpolski issss, 61?.... Koniecpolski DID defeat the Lion of the North in battle...make it make sense
Back to Top
Qerat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Location: UAE
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Qerat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2010 at 21:16
Khalid
History is to know the future
Back to Top
HannibalB View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 31-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote HannibalB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 06:00
I'm not sure why Caesar is lower than Scipio Africanus the Elder, he was just as good tactically, but head and shoulders above him politically and in his ability to lay sieges and engineering in general!
Though perhaps it may have been Scipio who introduced cohorts - improving the mobility of the legion whilst in Spain, so just maybe...

I also feel Subatoi should be ahead of Timujin - he was a fantastic commander and managed some impressive feats with armies miles apart!

I'm not a big fan of Alexander the Great - though I recognise his achievements were still impressive, I don't believe he deserves to me at number one!

I'm glad to see Hannibal Barca on the list - despite his flaws, I really do regard him as one of the greatest generals of all time.

Anyhow, a good list none the less... I'm now going to read through your hundred odd pages! Wish me luck.




Edited by HannibalB - 04-Jun-2010 at 04:59
Back to Top
nemomn View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 26-Jul-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
  Quote nemomn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2010 at 08:39
i would like to ask 1thing  what u guys calling best generals> how many times win the battle?
                                                                                              >how far they traveled?
                                                                                               >strategy?
if we compare this 3 thing no one go near Mongolian Generals like Subatoi( Subeedei= right spelling!) Zev Muhulai... and others


Back to Top
InTheFade View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 23-Jul-2010
Location: Earth
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12
  Quote InTheFade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2010 at 00:54
Where are?

Pericles
Alfred the Great
William The Conquer (The Bastard)
Otto I The Great
Clovis
Theodoric I
Attila The Hun
Mohamed
Frederick II of Hohenstaufen

To name a fewTongue
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein
      
Back to Top
Tiger of Kai View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 19-Jul-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 97
  Quote Tiger of Kai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2010 at 20:26
There's no way Ieyasu should be ranked higher than Nobunaga or Hideyoshi.
Back to Top
nomooon View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 03-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20
  Quote nomooon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2010 at 16:24
Originally posted by Tiger of Kai

There's no way Ieyasu should be ranked higher than Nobunaga or Hideyoshi.


yeah the list of japanese commanders is rediculous, hideyoshi and ieyasu are not even top tier commanders in Sengoku Era.  Uesugi, Takeda, Hojo, Sanada and Mori all have produced better top tier commanders than the two unifiers
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 122123124125126 128>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.469 seconds.