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The Chargemaster
Chieftain
Kishokan
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Topic: A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 17:14 |
Ljubcho Georgievski
Prime Minister of the Republic of Macedonia
(1998 - 2002)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ljubcho Georgievski (Macedonian: Љубчо Георгиевски, Bulgarian: Любчо Георгиевски) (born January 17, 1966 in tip) is a politician from the Republic of Macedonia and former Prime Minister of the country. In 1999 he was listed in the Guinness Book of Records as being the world's youngest Prime Minister. He was 32 years old when he took office.
On July 14, 2006
it was announced that Ljubcho Georgievski applied for and was granted
Bulgarian citizenship on the basis that his parents are Bulgarians.
This was confirmed by an official of the Bulgarian President's Office.[1][2][3]
Professional and political biography
- 1990-2002 President of the VMRO-DPMNE
- 1991-Vice President of the Republic of Macedonia
- 1992-1995 Representative in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia
- 1995-1998 Consulting in BS Consulting-Skopje
- 1998-2002 Prime Minister of the Republic of Macedonia
- 2002 President of the VMRO People's Party
References
Edited by The Chargemaster - 17-Jul-2006 at 17:17
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bg_turk
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 17:41 |
Great news.
One Macedonian pursuaded, 1 999 999 more to go. Keep up the good work, Charge!
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 18:17 |
Well, he is not the first bulgarian from FYROMacedonia who officially declared that he is a bulgarian. He is just one more. And he will not be the last, you know.
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Kutzalan
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 16:20 |
It's something pretty natural... History built on lies can't live long
Greetings to all of you, brothers
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Desperado
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:25 |
It's very interesting that in order to receive bulgarian citizenship the candidates have to prove the bulgarian roots of their predecessors-usually а certificate of baptism where the nationality is shown. According to the number of Macedonian citizens that are demanding/already have taken Bulgarian passports: 100 thousands macedonians have bulgarian grandparents which is in contradiction with the official statistics for ethnic groups in FYROM-where a Bulgarian minority is not present at all.
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Mila
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:35 |
If he has to prove his parent's are Bulgarian, and can... then isn't he
Bulgarian regardless of whether of not there's a Slavic Macedonian
nation or not?
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[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 02:15 |
Originally posted by Mila
If he has to prove his parent's are Bulgarian, and can... then isn't he Bulgarian regardless of whether of not there's a Slavic Macedonian nation or not? | Yes, exactly.I want to specify the difference between the termins "nation" and "people": "Nation" are all the citizens of one political state, who are living, working and payind taxes to that political state. They can be of many & different ethnic groups. "People" is something diferent. These are human beings from the same ethnic group or from few ethnic groups, but with very very big similarities between them(as between the dialects of one language). The history is also important thing for the formation of one people, but in the "slavic-macedonian" case - all is clear - according to the history they are definetly not different from the other bulgarians. And because of that: there don`t exist "slavic macedonian nation", but there really exist "macedonian"(FYROMian) nation. And that nation is composite mainly of macedonian bulgarians(as a part of the bulgarian people) and albanians(as a part of the albanian people).
Edited by The Chargemaster - 11-Aug-2006 at 07:54
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bg_turk
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 03:29 |
Your argument of describing Macedonians as Bulgarians is flawed, because you are missing one very important point - namely that most Macedonians do not conisder themselves Bulgarian - in fact most would resent the idea of being Bulgarian.
The alleged Bulgarianness of Macedonians is usually centered around linguistic arguments about the similarities between the Bulgarian and Makedonian languages. But such arguments again are flawed. As a counterexample to such arguments one could invoke the Austria-Germany parallel - both Austria and Germany speak the same language, but the Austrian people are generally considered distinct from the German people.
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 07:49 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
namely that most Macedonians do not conisder themselves Bulgarian |
You wish... I will say that most of the macedonian bulgarians still remember very very well, that they are bulgarians. And gradually they will acknowledge officially that fact, be sure.Was you a bulgarian between 1984 - 1989, dear bg_turk? Because officially you was a bulgarian. Did you remember, ha? The communistic process of assimilation of the bulgarian turks into bulgarians has finished in 1989. Good for you. But the assimilation of the macedonian bulgarians into "macedonians" in FYROMacedonia still works nowadays. It seems that you support that disgusting assimilation as your way for revenge.
The alleged Bulgarianness of Macedonians is usually centered around linguistic arguments about the similarities between |
Oh, you wish to be "alleged"... And you again forget about the history.
As a counterexample to such arguments one could invoke the
Austria-Germany parallel - both Austria and Germany speak the same
language, but the Austrian people are generally considered distinct
from the German people. |
Sorry, bg_turk, but that assertion is really very wrong. Just read more. And it will be good, if you find some ethnic maps of Europe: there is no"austrian people", but "germans".
Edited by The Chargemaster - 11-Aug-2006 at 07:58
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Desperado
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 08:00 |
"...The alleged Bulgarianness of Macedonians is usually centered around linguistic arguments about the similarities between the Bulgarian and Makedonian languages. But such arguments again are flawed."
The alleged Turkishness of the inhabitants of Kyrdzhali region is usually centered around linguistic arguments about similarities between the Turkish and East-Rhodopian languages. But such arguments are again flawed...
The population of the Eastern Rhodopes are in fact descendants of the Thracian tribes, mainly Odrissians, they had an enormous contribution to the classic world, including Orpheos. They have nothing to do with the turco-mongols. How do you like that?
Just imagine, my friend(candidate for proud descendant of Orpheos) that the so "loved" by you "Vyzroditelen proces" continued 70 years, what would be impact on your ethnic turkish consciousness? Would this make you "an ancient thracian" or something?
And BTW, the presence of the Turkish state in the Rhodopes is shorter, than that of the Bulgarian in Macedonia.
Edited by Desperado - 11-Aug-2006 at 08:02
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 08:10 |
Originally posted by Desperado
The alleged Turkishness of the inhabitants of Kyrdzhali region is
usually centered around linguistic arguments about similarities between
the Turkish and East-Rhodopian languages. But such arguments are again
flawed...
The population of the Eastern Rhodopes are in fact descendants of
the Thracian tribes, mainly Odrissians, they had an enormous
contribution to the classic world, including Orpheos. They have nothing to do with the turco-mongols. | Very well said!
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jovan_tasevski
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 10:30 |
Modern Bulgarians are escential Tartars,Thracians and Macedonians. Tartars are easilly distinguised from Thracians and Macedonians, with there asiatic featurres, asian eyes and large cheeck bones. Watch Planeta TV and you will see most of Bulgarian Singers carry this feture. Most Bulgarians are ethnic Macedonians in every concivable aspect except name.
bulgarians have stealed the language from macedonians and occupy a part of macedonia.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 10:34 |
Originally posted by jovan_tasevski
Modern Bulgarians are escential Tartars,Thracians and Macedonians.
Tartars are easilly distinguised from Thracians and Macedonians, with there asiatic featurres, asian eyes and large cheeck bones. Watch Planeta TV and you will see most of Bulgarian Singers carry this feture. Most Bulgarians are ethnic Macedonians in every concivable aspect except name.
bulgarians have stealed the language from macedonians and occupy a part of macedonia. |
Please, my Bulgarian friends, don't bother to counter his provocations. He's out already.
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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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bg_turk
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 13:30 |
Originally posted by Desperado
But such arguments are again flawed...
The population of the Eastern Rhodopes are in fact descendants of the Thracian tribes, mainly Odrissians, they had an enormous contribution to the classic world, including Orpheos. They have nothing to do with the turco-mongols. How do you like that?
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Have I claimed I am an ancient Thracian ever in this forum? My origins are from the Konya region in Turkey, my ancestors settled in the Balkans around the 15th-16th century. I also have some mixtures from Lebanon.
Just imagine, my friend(candidate for proud descendant of Orpheos) that the so "loved" by you "Vyzroditelen proces" continued 70 years, what would be impact on your ethnic turkish consciousness? Would this make you "an ancient thracian" or something?
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The vazroditelen process attempted to make us bulgarian through violant assimilation and forceful pursuasion. As expected, it failed. The barbaric practice of choosing another man's name for them, banning their language and religion could not have continued for too long, it was already drawing international condemnation. On the other hand Macedonians define themselves as such today as free man through their own choosing, and unless you employ the same assimilatory policies against them, I fail to see how you will purusuade them in their alleged "Bulgarianness". I tremble in trepidation even contemplating the idea of pursuading the above individual in his Bulgarianess.
And BTW, the presence of the Turkish state in the Rhodopes is shorter, than that of the Bulgarian in Macedonia.
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The Turkish state was never present in the Rhodopes. The Turkish nation never existed prior to the 1920s. And when exactly was the last time Macedonia was part of Bulgaria? 12th century?
Edited by bg_turk - 11-Aug-2006 at 13:34
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 13:55 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
The vazroditelen process attempted to make us bulgarian through violant
assimilation and forceful pursuasion. As expected, it failed. The
barbaric practice of choosing another man's name for them, banning
their language and religion could not have continued for too long, it
was already drawing international condemnation. On the other hand
Macedonians define themselves as such today as free man through their
own choosing, and unless you employ the same assimilatory policies
against them, I fail to see how you will purusuade them in their
alleged "Bulgarianness". I tremble in trepidation even contemplating
the idea of pursuading the above individual in his Bulgarianess. |
Thank you bg_turk. You prove yourself that i am right - now is clear to me that the roots of your problem with the bulgarian people are hidden in the communistic "rebirth" process between 1984 - 1989.
And when exactly was the last time Macedonia was part of Bulgaria? 12th century? |
Today one part of Macedonia is a part of Bulgaria. In the time of WWI and WWII most of the territory of Macedonia was part of Bulgaria.
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Desperado
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:08 |
"Have I claimed I am an ancient Thracian ever in this forum? My origins are from the Konya region in Turkey, my ancestors settled in the Balkans around the 15th-16th century. I also have some mixtures from Lebanon."
No, you're a Thracian(from the very ancient ones). I've seen East-Rhodopians: they don't look Asian, like us the turco-mongols-so they're Thracians.
Of course everyone has the right for self-determination. But....to steal parts from the history of his neighbours, to "invent" historical myths and new languages for his particular political needs-it's acrime. Even without the repressions and violence which had occured anytime the ruling nation in Macedonia changed.
" I tremble in trepidation even contemplating the idea of pursuading the above individual in his Bulgarianess."-Well i see from now that Komnenos will be a really hard case.
I'm not trying to persuade anyone in anything, but I'm tired of reading science fiction stories presented like the only true and holy history. Just look at the post of jovan_tasevski:"bulgarians have stealed the language from macedonians and occupy a part of macedonia". Is this normal? As long as you consider the language of this person(and mine too) as the language of Alexander The Great, for me you're a Thracian-and no neo-Ottoman and pan-turkic propaganda can convince me in the opposite
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bg_turk
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:19 |
Originally posted by Desperado
But....to steal parts from the history of his neighbours, to "invent" historical myths and new languages for his particular political needs-it's acrime. |
Whereas Bulgaria has never manipulated history for political reasons.
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bg_turk
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:21 |
Originally posted by The Chargemaster
Thank you bg_turk. You prove yourself that i am right - now is clear to me that the roots of your problem with the bulgarian people are hidden in the communistic "rebirth" process between 1984 - 1989.
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You are wrong. My problem is not with the Bulgarian people, my problem is with those that try to make people seem Bulgairan against their will.
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erci
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:15 |
forget what he says.He's a Turko-Mongolian
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The Chargemaster
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Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:31 |
Yeah! He really looks like that!
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