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Byzantine Metalworking

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Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios

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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Byzantine Metalworking
    Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 17:23
Originally posted by King John

I enjoyed the discourse of furnaces at the very beginning of this thread and had a few questions that relate to this discussion.
 
So did I!  It is a shame that edgewaters and BlindOne do not frequent AE anymore.  They always had something interesting to contribute.
 
Originally posted by King John

I know that none in here are black smiths or metalurgists but maybe somebody can answer this question for me. Do we know how the swords of Byzantine were forged? By this I mean do we know the alloys that were used? If not can somebody point me in the direction of possible sources?
 
The Byzantines relied at least partly on ancient Greek handbooks on metallurgy and alchemy.  These handbooks were also popular in the Muslim world too, where they were translated into Arabic.  The handbooks give us some indication of the alloys and forging process that the Byzantines might have used.  It is quite probable that they adopted any contemporary techniques of the time too.  As far as sources, the newest secondary work on the subject can be found in the Economic History of Byzantium, published in 2002.  It can be accessed electronically:
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Benedictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 20:27
As previously stated by some of our more knowledgeable members, the extent of Byzantine metalworking processes is not yet clearly defined, however, it is surmised that in the later reign of the empire, the majority of their armor and weapons were perhaps imported or brought in through the hiring of mercenaries (I cannot say for sure, not being any expert in matters of history). But it makes sense to me that due to the exponential growth and influence of the Orthodox church over the state, that given their ecclesiastical leanings, the army would have been drastically reduced, and of course that metalworking would have largely declined or been relegated to production of monastical tools/art.

Having said that, I uncovered a piece of evidence that strongly indicates that the early Byzantine empire (5th-6th century) had already begun utilizing a tandem process for refining the ore into blooms/sl*g and the rough forges for actually producing the objet d'arme, instead of producing all in one location.

http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/sagalassos/field05/survey5.html

This piece of evidence uncovers a dig site, Tekali-Tepe, near the ancient city of Sagalassos, in which pieces of pig iron and sl*g which can only be found near A) volcanic regions or, B) ore refineries were dug from the ground, weighed and counted in order to analyse the amount of activity the refineries were engaged in at the time. sl*g found at sites such as this alters little over time due to the composition of the raw materials. Ceramic finds were used to date the site of interest. The dig found that by using georadar and magnetic imaging techniques (the best to find metalworking sites), they were able to positively identify that Tekali-Tepe was most likely used to refine the ore into bars and billets, and ship them to the city center of Sagalassos (a possible metalworking center of the region) for production of weapons. The chemical composition of the sl*g pieces were compared with 'smithing cakes' from the city center to obtain this conclusion (obviously found to be similar).

Although this dig site did not uncover specific techniques (perhaps more could be found using socio-ethnic research) of metalworking in Byzantine culture, it shed some light on the geo-economic processes involved in large-scale metal production in the region. I of course could be corrected, but based on some short queries, it could be linked to the military conquest of Milan by Count Belisarious in the 6th century. The weapons produced in Sagalassos could have supported this conquest.

Additionally, I found this website (Simaquian Studio) which seems to be a linked site with AE? Does anyone know about this?
http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7045&pid=84019&mode=threaded&show=&st=&

http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/sagalassos/field05/survey5.html


Edited by Benedictus - 06-Dec-2008 at 20:28
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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2009 at 04:52

Originally posted by Benedictus

As previously stated by some of our more knowledgeable members, the extent of Byzantine metalworking processes is not yet clearly defined, however, it is surmised that in the later reign of the empire, the majority of their armor and weapons were perhaps imported or brought in through the hiring of mercenaries (I cannot say for sure, not being any expert in matters of history). But it makes sense to me that due to the exponential growth and influence of the Orthodox church over the state, that given their ecclesiastical leanings, the army would have been drastically reduced, and of course that metalworking would have largely declined or been relegated to production of monastical tools/art.

Yes, the Empire in the late period imported a good deal of its manpower and military equipment both from the Turks and through the Balkans. 
 
I am not sure that the influence of the Church had as much to do with the decline of military resources as did the reduction of territory and material wealth under the emperor's control.  However, John V and John VIII Palaiologos' serenade in the West and assent to church union did not win the favor of the Orthodox clergy!  That and the promised help never came from the Papal court or the kings of Western Europe.
 
Interestingly, a good deal of the metalworking which survives from the late period and earlier is from monastic sites.  But many secular items of Byzantine material culture has been destroyed by overzealous classical archaeologists who like to poo-poo Byzantium as a corruption of classical Greece. LOL Cry
 
Originally posted by Benedictus

Although this dig site did not uncover specific techniques (perhaps more could be found using socio-ethnic research) of metalworking in Byzantine culture, it shed some light on the geo-economic processes involved in large-scale metal production in the region. I of course could be corrected, but based on some short queries, it could be linked to the military conquest of Milan by Count Belisarious in the 6th century. The weapons produced in Sagalassos could have supported this conquest.
 
This site is interesting.  I saw the section about early Roman and Byzantine artifacts in general.  Was there another section that talks about a possible link with Belisarius' Gothic campaign?
 
Originally posted by Benedictus

Additionally, I found this website (Simaquian Studio) which seems to be a linked site with AE? Does anyone know about this?
 
LOL Yeah, Simaquian used to be a decent discussion forum along with AE.  I posted some of my same topics there because some Byzantinists used to frequent the site.  It has since declined to almost no worthwhile activity.
 
Ironically, I am starting to wonder where all the Byzantinists went that used to post at AE!  I hope the same thing does not happen here.  All the more reason to keep this thread alive... Big smile
 
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2009 at 13:59

I have a question does anyone know how the byzantines made their swords?



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2009 at 15:42
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Originally posted by Benedictus

As previously stated by some of our more knowledgeable members, the extent of Byzantine metalworking processes is not yet clearly defined, however, it is surmised that in the later reign of the empire, the majority of their armor and weapons were perhaps imported or brought in through the hiring of mercenaries (I cannot say for sure, not being any expert in matters of history). But it makes sense to me that due to the exponential growth and influence of the Orthodox church over the state, that given their ecclesiastical leanings, the army would have been drastically reduced, and of course that metalworking would have largely declined or been relegated to production of monastical tools/art.

Yes, the Empire in the late period imported a good deal of its manpower and military equipment both from the Turks and through the Balkans. 
 
I am not sure that the influence of the Church had as much to do with the decline of military resources as did the reduction of territory and material wealth under the emperor's control.  However, John V and John VIII Palaiologos' serenade in the West and assent to church union did not win the favor of the Orthodox clergy!  That and the promised help never came from the Papal court or the kings of Western Europe.
 
Interestingly, a good deal of the metalworking which survives from the late period and earlier is from monastic sites.  But many secular items of Byzantine material culture has been destroyed by overzealous classical archaeologists who like to poo-poo Byzantium as a corruption of classical Greece. LOL Cry
 
Originally posted by Benedictus

Although this dig site did not uncover specific techniques (perhaps more could be found using socio-ethnic research) of metalworking in Byzantine culture, it shed some light on the geo-economic processes involved in large-scale metal production in the region. I of course could be corrected, but based on some short queries, it could be linked to the military conquest of Milan by Count Belisarious in the 6th century. The weapons produced in Sagalassos could have supported this conquest.
 
This site is interesting.  I saw the section about early Roman and Byzantine artifacts in general.  Was there another section that talks about a possible link with Belisarius' Gothic campaign?
 
Originally posted by Benedictus

Additionally, I found this website (Simaquian Studio) which seems to be a linked site with AE? Does anyone know about this?
 
LOL Yeah, Simaquian used to be a decent discussion forum along with AE.  I posted some of my same topics there because some Byzantinists used to frequent the site.  It has since declined to almost no worthwhile activity.
 
Ironically, I am starting to wonder where all the Byzantinists went that used to post at AE!  I hope the same thing does not happen here.  All the more reason to keep this thread alive... Big smile
 


There are stil some here. I haven't had the time to properly devote a good thread to the themes topic yet either. I'm going to get around that this upcoming month after that I should be able to pick up the pace.
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