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The Friendly dictators

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Moustafa Pasha View Drop Down
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  Quote Moustafa Pasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Friendly dictators
    Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 12:36
America's foreign policy in the past as well as in the present has ruled a large portion of the world by proxy by supporting and relying on friendly dictators. Attacched is a short list of dictators listed by region, who at one time or another supported Americican policy throughout the world.
 
 
A new addition of ommited persons;:General Pervez Musharaff of Pakistan,General Hosni Mubarak of Egypt,King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia,President Hamid Karzai of Ahghannistan.
 
Please add more if you can!!
 
The following is a more complete list :
 
 
 


Edited by Moustafa Pasha - 03-Jul-2006 at 13:45
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 13:29
It lists Turgut Ozal as well
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/EurMEast.html

Was he a dictator?
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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 00:23
There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators.  Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism.
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  Quote Gloval Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 01:13
You're funny.
You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 02:48
Originally posted by R_AK47

There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators. Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism.

You are like a sum of all things I hate, R_AK47.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 04:10
Originally posted by R_AK47

There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators.  Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism.
 
I thought that was supposed to be the global struggle for democracy.
 
 
 
 
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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 11:38
Originally posted by barish


You are like a sum of all things I hate, R_AK47.
 
LOL


Edited by R_AK47 - 07-Jul-2006 at 11:39
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 12:45
Originally posted by R_AK47

There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators.  Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism.
 
So if the EU or Russia of China decided to forcibly overthrow the American government and put a friendly dictator there who would make sure all profits in the country went to them instead of the American people, while ruthlessly killing and torturing all those who disagree with him, this would of course be totally ok with you...
 
Do you even know the meaning of the word Dictator?Dead


Edited by Aelfgifu - 07-Jul-2006 at 12:48

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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:42
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

 
So if the EU or Russia of China decided to forcibly overthrow the American government and put a friendly dictator there who would make sure all profits in the country went to them instead of the American people, while ruthlessly killing and torturing all those who disagree with him, this would of course be totally ok with you...
 
 
No it would not be "totally ok", because that would obviously not be supporting American policy or be of benefit to the American people.


Edited by R_AK47 - 07-Jul-2006 at 16:44
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:51

So the US can do this to others and this is fair, but it cannot be dont to the US because that would not be fair? Interesting morality. 'Friendly' dictators are friendly to the US, not to the people. Hell, Saddam was a 'friendly' dictator once. Sure must be comforting to think the US payed for the guns their soldiers are shot with.


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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 22:48
Im not at all patriotic, and theres alot of things I hate about US foreign policy, but supporting dictators isnt one of them.  Its one of our better ideas.  First of all Im not a fan of democracy anymore so I dont have the principle of dictator hating.  How is tyrany of one man worse than tyrany of the majority of men?
 
Dictators, like democratically elected rulers, can be both good and bad.  Right now my favorite person in all the world is a dictator...th eKing of Morrocco. 
 
Also, look at Iraq, they were better under a dictator.  A secular non religious psycho dictator who was removed by the US and look what happened, an upswing in radical religious extremism! 
 
Supproting dictators worked against other ideologies int he past, now we should support dictators that are secular.  You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2006 at 01:49
Originally posted by bg_turk

It lists Turgut Ozal as well. Was he a dictator?

Although I hate him probably more than anyone else, I don't think Turgut zal can be considered as a dictator.

However it is well-known that he was an American puppet.
    
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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 15:06
Originally posted by Tobodai

How is tyrany of one man worse than tyrany of the majority of men?
 
 
I agree.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 15:14
You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
 
Like?
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:14
Originally posted by Mortaza

You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
 
Like?
 
Yes, Like?
I would like to hear an example of a form of non-democratic government where the peoples freedom of speech is not affected, and where peope can voice their objections towards the government without negative consequence.
 
Besides, It is not logical to compare secular dictators with religious democracies. It would make more sense to compare secular dictators with secular democracies, because these are far more common.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 10-Jul-2006 at 04:17

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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:20
Originally posted by Tobodai

Supproting dictators worked against other ideologies int he past, now we should support dictators that are secular. You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.

Saddam was a rather secular dictator.

I don't see how he was better than religious extremists.


    
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  Quote Giannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:40
What's a religious democracy? As much as I concern you can't have theocratical democracies.
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 05:21
Ozal, a dictator?LOLWe were calling him "the bear of Ankara" and we even marched through Ankara when he didn't consider miner rights.Ah the old days...

If he was a dictator, he would have stopped us.

The list seems silly to me.

Turgut Ozal was elected prime minister of Turkey in 1983, after several years of harsh military rule. But while free expression in Turkey has opened up somewhat in recent years, torture and long prison terms for political opponents and government critics have remained a way of life. In 1988, according to Amnesty International, "thousands of people were imprisoned for political reasons...and the use of torture continued to be widespread and systematic". Turkey's torturers are ruthless. Says one victim: " I loosened the blindfold and looked around. The scene was horrific. People were piled up in the corridor waiting their turn to be tortured. Ten people were being led, blindfolded and naked, up and down the corridor and were being beaten to force them to sing reactionary marches. Others, incapable of standing, were tied to hot radiator pipes. A man was forced to watch while his children were tortured." Regardless of the repression that a succession of governments have subjected the country to, US-Turkish relations remain cordial. In the past, US officials have even attributed the torture problem to "the violent nature of the Turkish people." Retired Turkish General Turgut Sunalp explains it a different way. "There has been, still is, and will be torture in Turkey because there is torture everywhere in the world," he said. But despite its human rights abuses, Turkey can do no wrong in US eyes, for it is one of the CIA's key listening posts on the Soviet border. Not surprisingly, in 1987, Turkey was the third largest recipient of U.S. aid.

Oops.When did all these happen?
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 07:12
dictator   Audio pronunciation of "dictator" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (dkttr, dk-t-)
n.
    1. An absolute ruler.
    2. A tyrant; a despot.
Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
 

dictator

n 1: a speaker who dictates to a secretary or a recording machine 2: a ruler who is unconstrained by law [syn: potentate] 3: a person behaves in an tyrannical manner; "my boss is a dictator who makes everyone work overtime" [syn: authoritarian]

WordNet 2.0, 2003 Princeton University
 
No such thing as 'friendly' dictator
 


Edited by Aelfgifu - 10-Jul-2006 at 07:13

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 00:27
I said I would prefer a dictator to a religious democracy, I didnt say dictatorship was the best form of government.  Idealists are dangerous because they can only see two sides to any issue.  Black and white, dictatorship and democracy.  Wow how simple the world must seem from such a perspective.  My ideal form of government is an Oligrachic republic, see Venice.  And dont proceed to nitpick, Im not such a fool as to think any system is devoid of massive flaws, theres bad and theres worse.
 
I definately do think the Iraqis were far better off under Saddam Hussein then they are now, or will be when the crazy fanatics take over.  They had running water, they had electricity, already that was better. 
 
Religious theocracies and democracies coexist wherever the majority of people are religious and can vote.  See America.  The brilliance of our system is that there is a seperation of powers, that is essential.  However it is part of the myth and religion of democracy that seperation of powers only occurs in democracies, the Venetians did it alot better and where around far longer.  Also democracies self-replenish, which means they cannot easily fall when they become corrupt and stagnant, which almost necessitiates violent overthrown for a society to keep from falling.
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