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Moustafa Pasha
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Topic: The Friendly dictators Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 12:36 |
America's foreign policy in the past as well as in the present has ruled a large portion of the world by proxy by supporting and relying on friendly dictators. Attacched is a short list of dictators listed by region, who at one time or another supported Americican policy throughout the world.
A new addition of ommited persons;:General Pervez Musharaff of Pakistan,General Hosni Mubarak of Egypt,King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia,President Hamid Karzai of Ahghannistan.
Please add more if you can!!
The following is a more complete list :
Edited by Moustafa Pasha - 03-Jul-2006 at 13:45
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bg_turk
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Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 13:29 |
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R_AK47
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Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 00:23 |
There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators. Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism.
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Gloval
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Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 01:13 |
You're funny.
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You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 02:48 |
Originally posted by R_AK47
There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators. Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism. |
You are like a sum of all things I hate, R_AK47.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 04:10 |
Originally posted by R_AK47
There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators. Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism. |
I thought that was supposed to be the global struggle for democracy.
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R_AK47
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Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 11:38 |
Originally posted by barish
You are like a sum of all things I hate, R_AK47.
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Edited by R_AK47 - 07-Jul-2006 at 11:39
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 12:45 |
Originally posted by R_AK47
There is nothing wrong with the USA supporting friendly dictators. Many dictators are fair rulers and if they support American policy then we (the USA) should support them as well, particularly in the global struggle against communism. |
So if the EU or Russia of China decided to forcibly overthrow the American government and put a friendly dictator there who would make sure all profits in the country went to them instead of the American people, while ruthlessly killing and torturing all those who disagree with him, this would of course be totally ok with you...
Do you even know the meaning of the word Dictator?
Edited by Aelfgifu - 07-Jul-2006 at 12:48
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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R_AK47
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Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:42 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
So if the EU or Russia of China decided to forcibly overthrow the American government and put a friendly dictator there who would make sure all profits in the country went to them instead of the American people, while ruthlessly killing and torturing all those who disagree with him, this would of course be totally ok with you...
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No it would not be "totally ok", because that would obviously not be supporting American policy or be of benefit to the American people.
Edited by R_AK47 - 07-Jul-2006 at 16:44
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:51 |
So the US can do this to others and this is fair, but it cannot be dont to the US because that would not be fair? Interesting morality. 'Friendly' dictators are friendly to the US, not to the people. Hell, Saddam was a 'friendly' dictator once. Sure must be comforting to think the US payed for the guns their soldiers are shot with.
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Tobodai
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Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 22:48 |
Im not at all patriotic, and theres alot of things I hate about US foreign policy, but supporting dictators isnt one of them. Its one of our better ideas. First of all Im not a fan of democracy anymore so I dont have the principle of dictator hating. How is tyrany of one man worse than tyrany of the majority of men?
Dictators, like democratically elected rulers, can be both good and bad. Right now my favorite person in all the world is a dictator...th eKing of Morrocco.
Also, look at Iraq, they were better under a dictator. A secular non religious psycho dictator who was removed by the US and look what happened, an upswing in radical religious extremism!
Supproting dictators worked against other ideologies int he past, now we should support dictators that are secular. You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Lmprs
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Posted: 08-Jul-2006 at 01:49 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
It lists Turgut Ozal as well. Was he a dictator? |
Although I hate him probably more than anyone else, I don't think Turgut zal can be considered as a dictator.
However it is well-known that he was an American puppet.
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R_AK47
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Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 15:06 |
Originally posted by Tobodai
How is tyrany of one man worse than tyrany of the majority of men?
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I agree.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 15:14 |
You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
Like?
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:14 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy.
Like? |
Yes, Like?
I would like to hear an example of a form of non-democratic government where the peoples freedom of speech is not affected, and where peope can voice their objections towards the government without negative consequence.
Besides, It is not logical to compare secular dictators with religious democracies. It would make more sense to compare secular dictators with secular democracies, because these are far more common.
Edited by Aelfgifu - 10-Jul-2006 at 04:17
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:20 |
Originally posted by Tobodai
Supproting dictators worked against other ideologies int he past, now we should support dictators that are secular. You probably have more rights in such a government than a religious democracy. |
Saddam was a rather secular dictator.
I don't see how he was better than religious extremists.
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Giannis
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 04:40 |
What's a religious democracy? As much as I concern you can't have theocratical democracies.
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Jagatai Khan
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 05:21 |
Ozal, a dictator? We were calling him "the bear of Ankara" and we even marched through Ankara when he didn't consider miner rights.Ah the old days... If he was a dictator, he would have stopped us. The list seems silly to me.
Turgut Ozal was elected prime minister of Turkey in 1983,
after several years of harsh military rule. But while free expression
in Turkey has opened up somewhat in recent years, torture and
long prison terms for political opponents and government critics
have remained a way of life. In 1988, according to Amnesty International,
"thousands of people were imprisoned for political reasons...and
the use of torture continued to be widespread and systematic".
Turkey's torturers are ruthless. Says one victim: " I loosened
the blindfold and looked around. The scene was horrific. People
were piled up in the corridor waiting their turn to be tortured.
Ten people were being led, blindfolded and naked, up and down
the corridor and were being beaten to force them to sing reactionary
marches. Others, incapable of standing, were tied to hot radiator
pipes. A man was forced to watch while his children were tortured."
Regardless of the repression that a succession of governments
have subjected the country to, US-Turkish relations remain cordial.
In the past, US officials have even attributed the torture problem
to "the violent nature of the Turkish people." Retired
Turkish General Turgut Sunalp explains it a different way. "There
has been, still is, and will be torture in Turkey because there
is torture everywhere in the world," he said. But despite
its human rights abuses, Turkey can do no wrong in US eyes, for
it is one of the CIA's key listening posts on the Soviet border.
Not surprisingly, in 1987, Turkey was the third largest recipient
of U.S. aid. |
Oops.When did all these happen?
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 07:12 |
dictator ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d k t t r, d k-t -) n.
- An absolute ruler.
- A tyrant; a despot.
Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
dictator
n 1: a speaker who dictates to a secretary or a recording machine 2: a ruler who is unconstrained by law [syn: potentate] 3: a person behaves in an tyrannical manner; "my boss is a dictator who makes everyone work overtime" [syn: authoritarian]
WordNet 2.0, 2003 Princeton University
No such thing as 'friendly' dictator
Edited by Aelfgifu - 10-Jul-2006 at 07:13
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Tobodai
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Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 00:27 |
I said I would prefer a dictator to a religious democracy, I didnt say dictatorship was the best form of government. Idealists are dangerous because they can only see two sides to any issue. Black and white, dictatorship and democracy. Wow how simple the world must seem from such a perspective. My ideal form of government is an Oligrachic republic, see Venice. And dont proceed to nitpick, Im not such a fool as to think any system is devoid of massive flaws, theres bad and theres worse.
I definately do think the Iraqis were far better off under Saddam Hussein then they are now, or will be when the crazy fanatics take over. They had running water, they had electricity, already that was better.
Religious theocracies and democracies coexist wherever the majority of people are religious and can vote. See America. The brilliance of our system is that there is a seperation of powers, that is essential. However it is part of the myth and religion of democracy that seperation of powers only occurs in democracies, the Venetians did it alot better and where around far longer. Also democracies self-replenish, which means they cannot easily fall when they become corrupt and stagnant, which almost necessitiates violent overthrown for a society to keep from falling.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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