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Tarascan swords
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tarascan swords
    Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 21:08
does anyone know how bronze and copper swords looked and were made?
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 22:22
I think you might find an answer here-
 
http://swordforum.com/       This is a very active sword collectors site, with a very good forum.  Someone there i'm sure can help.
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2006 at 16:58
Hello Itzocelotl, back again.
 
As you well know, the Tarascans had no bronze or copper swords, they used wood and obsidian just like everyone else.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2006 at 19:10
nah man I heard they made swords and spears out of copper and bronze. They also used Maquahuitl but they also had swords like that. I think they said they looked like modern day machetes

Edited by Tarascan knight - 19-Jun-2006 at 19:11
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 01:32
Hello All,
Just a quick question , who were the Tarascans' and what was their army like and did they use many knights?
P.S Pleases excuse my ignorrance
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Bonde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 09:21
The Tarascans are one of the Native American peoples that still exist and lives in modern day Mexico. They were one of the great civilizations of Mesoamerica during the pre-Columbian times prior to the 16th Century. Their capital city was called Tzintzuntzan.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 12:47
They had Jaguar knights and Coyote knights. Theyre army resembled every other meso-american army. But the difference was that they used more archers, and had spears, axes, arrows, swords, and shields made of copper and bronze. Our nation was born in the 1100's and was invaded and occupied by the Spanish empire in 1530. They had palaces, cities, kings, schools, just like the mayans and Mexicah.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Bonde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 13:33
As Tarascan knight (are You by the way related to the Tarascans?) already has mentioned above, the Tarascans made their weapons out of metal. Their coppersmiths were highly regarded. This was an big advantage in war over the Aztecs who did not have metallic weapons of their own.

Edited by Bonde - 21-Jun-2006 at 17:41
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 22:43
Originally posted by Bonde

As Tarascan knight (are You by the way related to the Tarascans?) already has mentioned above, the Tarascans made their weapons out of metal. Their coppersmiths were highly regarded. This was an big advantage in war over the Aztecs who did not have metallic weapons of their own.
 
Can you reference that for us?  This is, I believe, the 2nd time I've seen this come up in a thread and I havn't been able to find anything on any site to substantiate them having used metal for weapons making. Smile
 
 


Edited by red clay - 21-Jun-2006 at 22:44
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 01:31

Originally posted by Bonde


As Tarascan knight (are You by the way related to the Tarascans?)
already has mentioned above, the Tarascans made their weapons out of
metal. Their coppersmiths were highly regarded. This was an big
advantage in war over the Aztecs who did not have metallic weapons of
their own.


No bronze or copper weapons have ever been found, and there is no firsthand accounts of them using such. I'm not sure what your source is here, at best it's speculation, at worst, fancy.

On the other hand, they did indeed have bronze, just as the Aztecs had copper. Metallurgy did exist in Precolumbian Mexico, or it wouldn't have been full of gold artifacts. Why they didn't use their metals for weaponry is a source of some debate. The Tarascans, for instance, used bronze to make miniature bells and other ceremonial objects, all very tiny and all in a similar style.
    
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 05:13
Many meso-american societies had the capacity to manufacture copper and bronze implements it's just they chose not to do it for much other than jewelry.
 
Copper can't hold an edge and makes poor weapons, with bronze heating up a furnace to melt the stuff is hugely labour and resource intensive, when you have abundant supplies of obsidian and a city full of trained knappers who can knock off an atl atl head in minutes. The cost of a single bronze arrowhead would probably be a hundred times that of an obsidian one. In a world where your enemy has no metal armour, there's also no real impodous to make metal weapons either.
 
One exception is the Tlaxcallans who made a few thousand bronze points for the spaniard crossbows. Also meso-americans copper axes for chopping wood. Obsidian was far to brittle and fragile to do this job.
 
 
 
With edgewaters joining this post, there now there's actually 4 seperate people posting...........Clap
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 13:36
Yes I AM Tarascan. I dont remember where i read they used copper and bronze for swords, spears, shields, and arrows but here are some pics of their weapons.
Copper AXE piece
 
 
 Spear head of bronze.
 
This i think is pieces to axes and swords. They said theyre swords looked more like long mechetes.
 
I got these pics from a Tarascan friend on MYSPACE. wE GOT are own group called "Purepecha nation". Yes Purepecha is the other word we call ourselfs. Tarascan and Purepecha.


Edited by Tarascan knight - 22-Jun-2006 at 13:37
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 17:59
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 18:00
I just got this from one of my Purepecha friends in MYSPACE. Hes from tzintzuntzan he drew this and said this is how the swords looked like.
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 18:47

Copper axes, they had, although they were tools not weapons. The "spearheads" you show are quite obviously fishermen's spears, not weapons of war. The last pic, the object on the right would make a poor sword: the axehead next to it, which is larger, is probably only about 6 or 7 inches long. What kind of sword would be 6 inches long including the handle? What are you going to do with a 3 inch blade? This is more likely what's known as "axe money", bronze currency issued in the shape of miniature axes or other tools.
    

Edited by edgewaters - 22-Jun-2006 at 18:48
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 19:14
Originally posted by Tarascan knight

I just got this from one of my Purepecha friends in MYSPACE. Hes from tzintzuntzan he drew this and said this is how the swords looked like.
 
Okay, but what is his information source? When you are posing an idea counter to the prevailing knowledge or theory you have to be able to show us where the information you are forming it on came from. That allows us to determine the credibility of your source or base information. In turn we can discuss your idea on a more serious level. [ and just for the record, I don't think any of us here consider anything found on My Space credibleTongue]
 
 


Edited by red clay - 22-Jun-2006 at 19:16
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 20:48
 i said i think that huge piece of bronze was a sword or a axe. I didnt say it was a sword! lol that thing is huge and fat man! lol And yes i suspected they were fishing tools but i made a mistake.
 
 But his sources are straight from Michoacan. Their arnt many websites regarding our culutre and hisotry. So u could either take a trip to Micoacan or read the book "chronicles of michoacan" .
 
He gets his sources from the codexes and he actually lives in Tzintzuntzan so he knows alot. Their is alot of archeolgy places in Tzintzuntzan and mueseums regarding our Tarascan culture. Plus the purepecha group we have on myspace isnt made up of litte kids who know nothing. Most are actually in the Purepecha nation.


Edited by Tarascan knight - 22-Jun-2006 at 20:51
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Bonde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 11:11
The Tarascan military was an arm of the centralised government of Tzintzuntzan. Their soldiers were professionals who extended permanent Tarascan control throughout the territory.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote arany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 12:39
 creo que la palabra  tarasco  viene de  tata vasco  mejor llamarlos  purepecha  como grupo etnico
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Posts: 0 		  Quote arany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 12:43
 las piezas de cobre fotografiadas son ejemplos ejemplos de la metalurgia del occidente de mexico  para su epoca hace 600 anos  los purepechas eran uno de los mas avanzados en las tecnicas del metal 
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