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Critically Evaluate Korean prehistory.

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Critically Evaluate Korean prehistory.
    Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 10:53
North Korea claims they have duged up the mausoleum of Tang-gun, and date it at 5067 year ago.

I would like to post an article which was posted on another forum

SECTION 5. THE TAEDONG RIVER BASIN WAS ONE OF CRADLES OF ANCIENT CIVILIZATION

The Korean people have created cultural wealth they can be proud of in their history of 5,000 years, and enriched the world's treasure house of culture.

They made a great contribution to printing by inventing metal type for the first time in the world, built the world's first iron-clad naval vessel (turtle-shaped) and made Koryo celadon ceramics, which are valued worldwide for their excellent colours, patterns and shapes.

Mural paintings in Koguryo tombs, the colours of which have not faded after thousands of years, are part of the cultural wealth created by the resourceful Korean people.

From olden times, cultural masterpieces of world fame have been created in Korea, which can be seen in the Taedong River basin centring on Pyongyang.

In the Taedong River basin were discovered the tomb of Tangun, the founder-king of Korea, the altar to Tangun, ancient walls dating back to 5,000 years, tombs with slaves buried alive together with their dead masters, the sites of large villages evocative of ancient cities, about 14,000 dolmens where were buried members of the then ruling classes, about 200 dolmens engraved with diagrams of ancient constellations, and in which were found different kinds of valuable bronze wares, including lute-shaped daggers and lute-shaped spearheads, gold objects such as earrings and finger rings, earthenware items and other relics.

These remains and relics provide a potent material proof that the Taedong River basin was the centre of Kojoson, the first state of Korea, the cradle of the Korean nation, and the cradle of one of the earliest civilizations in the world



1. The Taedong River Basin Was One of the Cradles of the Earliest States in the World



The most important index of ancient civilization is the founding of a state.

The Taedong River basin was the place where Kojoson, one of the earliest states in the world, was founded.

Above all, this has been proved by the discovery and excavation of Tangun's tomb.

The tomb of Tangun, the father of the Korean nation, was excavated in Kangdong County, Pyongyang City in 1993.

The tomb had been plundered several times. When it was excavated, only the remains of two persons, Tangun and his wife, were discovered, plus a few relics, including fragments of a gilt-bronze crown.

The excavation of Tangun's tomb proved scientifically that Tangun was the real founder-king of the Korean nation, and no longer a mythological figure. Since he founded Kojoson 5,000 years ago in the Taedong River basin, Kojoson was thus one of the earliest states in the world.

Ancient Rome, which had a long tradition as a slave-owing state, started to be ruled by kings in the 8th century B.C. and Japan's history says that its first state was founded in the mythological age. Even those periods were two thousand several hundred years later than Kojoson.

A state is said to have been founded in the period of the Longshun culture (2,800-2,000 B.C.), at the close of the Neolithic age, in the Yellow River basin in China, which is recognized as one of the cradles of ancient civilization. But even that was hundreds of years after the founding of Kojoson. It was only about 4,500 years ago that a state was founded in the Indus River basin of India.

States emerged in the basins of the Nile River in Egypt and the Tigris-Euphrates Rivers in southwestern Asia almost in the same period as in the Taedong River basin.

Thus, it is quite natural that the Taedong River basin should be one of the cradles of the earliest states in the world and ancient civilization.

Archaeological research found that from olden times it had been a custom of the Korean people to be buried in their birthplaces after death.

It was also a custom with them that the tombs of kings should be built around the capital.

Following this custom, the Koguryo tombs with mural paintings, including tombs of kings, were massed around Pyongyang, the capital of Koguryo, the tombs of the kings of Koryo, around Kaesong, the capital of Koryo, and the tombs of the kings of the Ri dynasty, around Seoul, the capital of the Ri dynasty.

The facts that Tangun's tomb is in Kangdong County, Pyongyang City and that the remains of Tangun were discovered there provide compelling proof that Tangun was born in Pyongyang, and made Pyongyang his capital when he founded Kojoson.

That the Taedong River basin was one of the cradles of the earliest states in the world is proved also by the Altar to Tangun.

The altar was found at the foot of Mt. Taesong in Hwasong-dong, Ryongsong District, Pyongyang City. After Tangun's death, the Kojoson people held a memorial service for him every lunar tenth month, regarding him as the heaven-sent first king and worshipping him as a mythical being.

In the Nile River basin and in the basins of the Tigris-Euphrates Rivers, which were also cradles of ancient civilization, the ruling classes of Egypt and Mesopotamia built grand temples to make people worship the king as the "sun god" and obey him absolutely, and held memorial services for him there.

Hence, some historians regard temples as important symbols of an ancient state and ancient civilization.

According to old chronicles, including the Kyuwonsahwa,, in Korea memorial services for Tangun began to be held immediately after his death and continued up to modern times.

This is more material evidence showing that Tangun was worshiped as the real founder-king of Kojoson during ancient, medieval and modern times of Korean national history, and that the Taedong River basin, where Tangun's tomb and altar were found, was one of the cradles of the ancient states and ancient civilizations.

In the Taedong River basin, centering on Pyongyang, there have been unearthed in different places the sites of villages attributable to the beginning of the third millennium B.C. typical of them are the Phyodae remains and the Namgyong remains in Honam-ri, Samnsok District, Pyongyang City, the remains in Pukchang County, South Phyongan Province, the Namyang remains in Tokchon City in the same province, the remains in Sokthan-ri, Songrim City, North Hwanghae Province, and the remains in Koyon-ri, Hwangju County in the same province.

In these remains were discovered sites of large villages consisting of 100-150 dwelling sites where toy top-shaped vessels were found. These provide sufficient grounds for maintaining that an ancient city was nearby.

This implies that in those days the Taedong River basin centering on Pyongyang was the political, economic and cultural centre and one of the cradles of the earliest ancient states in the world.

Lute-shaped daggers and spearheads and other bronze weapons unearthed in this region are additional evidence of this.

Arms are a symbol of power organs and the basis for the existence of a state.

Such bronze weapons as lute-shaped daggers and lute-shaped spearheads, superior to copper or stone weapons, were used already in the early their millennium B.C. in the Taedong River basin.

This is proved by the lute-shaped spearheads unearthed in dolmen No. 5, attributable to the early period of Kojoson, in Ryonggok-ri, Sangwon County, Pyongyang City, at house site No. 10 at the Phyodae remains in Honam-ri and at house site No. 16 of the Namyang remains and by the lute-shaped dagger unearthed in stone kist tomb No. 1 at Sonam-ri, Sinphyong County, North Hwanghae Province, situated at the foot of the Nam stream, a tributary of the Taedong River.

The lute-shaped dagger and spearhead are bronze weapons peculiar to Kojoson.

Ancient bronze weapons such as the lute-shaped dagger and spearhead of early Kojoson have never been unearthed in any other region in the world.

Therefore, it is natural to regard the Taedong River basin, where the earliest bronze weapons in the world, dated to the early third millennium B.C., were found, as the cradle of the earliest state in the world.


Does anyone want to critically evaluate this claim?

If you want to directly discuss this matter with the poster please proceed to www.thehistoryforum.com . It is a brand new forum. (if this is against forum rules, just delete this line)
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 14:46

I cant say Im accomplished enough to critically evaluate it but I would believe it as the oldest evidence of cultivated rice in the world has been found in Korea, not as previously assumed, China.

BTW where in Korea is the Taedong river, I should know this but I forget now.

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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 01:07
Taedong flows through Pyungyang
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 11:42
Korean history is old...just how old no one can be for sure.  Some people say 9000 years old and according to the PRC's govt page, Korean history starts in 1948...  So it all depends on who you believe.  Dangun is said to have founded Gojosun in like 9000 something.  iono.  People also talk about states before that, like Baedal.  But you can't cancel out other aspects of Korean history like the Dongyi, who lived in China proper for a while.  Looking at the article, I see the words "North Korea Claims".  Come on, are you really going to believe anything that country says?  Some of the information, although I didn't actually read it, may be true, but major conterversial facts are probably made up.  We're talking about a country that would claim Kim Ilsung invented basketball if it had the opportunity.  Also I think they claim that Kim Ilsung and Kim Jungil are direct descendants of Dangun, which is total bull.  Recent tenative studies by Korean scientists have revealed some interesting things about Dangun.  The guy who did this researched last names and traced around different histories.  He came to the tenative conclusion that Dangun was a "Miao", an ethnic minority living in southern China who ruled over and brought "civilization" to Ainu people.  Just a theory though


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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 11:54
I've got evidence that Baedal existed...I'll post them later if I have time
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 16:16
I would really like to see some of those...most of the site that I have been to about Baedal have either been North Korean sites, who's validity I question, and sites that say outdated things about race such as "it is obvious that the negroid race is the smelliest of the three races".  So yea...I would really like to see some respectable data.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 17:39

Behold!  The Top Secret Chinese file!

"In Manchuria, there are countless mysterious pyramids"

I'm not joking.  If you think I am a fuc*in liar, its because the Chinese government lied to you. 

There are countless pyramids lying in Manchuria.  Currently, about 100 of them are identified. 

An average height of 25~100m each, there are those larger than the biggest pyramids in Egypt- the Giza.

Creation time wins Egyptian ones by 2000 years. 

These pictures, showing some of these mysterious pyramids, were taken by a german archeologist named Housedolf:

 

To create this, in antigue technology, you require at least 1,000,000 men.

I repeat, the biggest ones outmatch Egyptian ones

The first one of these were discovered by a local american air pilot's survey, in 1945.

Before that, they were believed to be mountains

In 1963, Chinese Archeologists speculated these pyramids to be Quishihuang's tomb and decided to excavate them.

However, in 1973, after cabon dating these Pyramids, they figured out that these pyramids outdate Quishihuang's tombs by thousands of years.

(about 6000 years from today- Older than Hwanhe civilization)

Currently, these artefacts that can rewrite history are being kept in Pure secret by Chinese Government

Currently, and survey nor research are prohibited.

(The Chinese governent digged in in 1960~70s until "western barbarian", or Baedal's artefacts spurred out, in which they decided to stop it-Why?= Because they realized that Baedal>HwanHe)

Thereafter, Chinese government starts to make this radical theory in that Koguryo is Chinese

The previous German Housedolf and his companion Peter Crasha pretended on a trip, and with a friendly Chinese officer known to them for many years, managed to take secret photos ^^.

Even if the Chinese government stole the film and camera, luckily they sent the pictures to german as soon as they took them, and they managed to show the Western world about Manchurian Pyramids.

These pyramids are proves to change current historical knowledge

At first, the Chinese government condemned manchu and upper as barbarians, without civilization, and condemned these pyramids as made up.  But there is no clue on how these barbarians created these monuments based upon their claim.

Anyway, because of so many western archeologists eager to know the truth, and because some Chinese archeologist now accept the fact, China decided the opposite: declare the excavations for decades to come, and now started to Brainwash their kids that Koguryo is Chinese, and are making lies to the world that Koguryo is theirs

However, take one more stuff into account: Manchu pyramids equal North Korean pyramids in structure and look, and they are called architectural uniqueness, which are not seen in China nor Japan.

So anyway, who are these humans with civilization before 5000 years?

China?  No, they were farming in HwanHe

Mongol? Nein, there were no mongol living at that time

Khitan, Normad? No, they were pure horsemen, are are not familiar to what we call as civilization

So, who has connection with this ancient civilization?

In every possible textbook dating ancient text, it is referred as Old Choson or Baedal(main: Handangogi)

There has also been Bronze tool found in Manchu, 4400 years back, China's first bronze date back to 4200

The "mighty" China's butts ended up in their mouth!

Even in Chinese text, they mention that Koguryo, Pekjae, and Shilla retained similar language.  And we are gradually finding evidence such as these proving Korean cultural supremacy over China.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/15802.htm

Even in this link, they admited till some point about things mentioned before

China claims their history as 1000 years long.  But it can never be 1000 years.  They were FORGED!  In their intentions on making Koguryo theirs, lies the TRUTH.  Because their history is fraud, they are trying to reform their history by making more lies such as these!  Koguryo's history is not only its region's history, but the Eastern Asia's (Remember, Baedal-Choson-Puyo-Koguryo)!

I am awaiting a heavy debate...



Edited by demon
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 23:28
Haha very nice.  Wow, I didn't know there were so many pyramids.  I only knew about the one they put up on UNESCO.  Perhaps the Koreans are Related to the Aztecs and Maya!  It could be possible.  I asked my mom about the origion of Baedal and the word Baedal.  She had no idea about any country, but she says that she remembers calling herself Baedal Minjok (A Baedal person) as long as she can remember.  She doesn't even remember learning it in school, she just knows that she was always a Baedal person.  This is just one example, in my opinion, of China's use of history to pursue its political agenda.  Acts like this, the annexation of Tibet, and the claiming that Ghengis Kahn is a Chinese national hero kind of scare me.  With China rising as an ever powerful power, what do these alterations of history have in store for the future of eastern ASia?  I am also very afraid for these pyramids, as up till now, before China registered Koguryo sites as part of UNESCO, china was planning to build a damn that would have destroyed one of Koguryo's sites.  I also heard that China destroys Caucasian tombs found in Sinkiang.  I can only pray that even if those sites don't China's plans, they won't be destroyed.

BTW where did u find those crazy pictures?


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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 02:45
demon, the link you post doesn't agree with what you said, do you have a source for your claims because they seem controversial to a large degree.

It said that the size of the pyramid was a 3-storey building, not hundreds of metres high.
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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 02:47
demon, when you said that manchuria had bronze tools 4400 years back i assume you mean 2400bc, and when you said china's bronze age was 4200 bc, yes you are correct.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 13:40

demon, when you said that manchuria had bronze tools 4400 years back i assume you mean 2400bc, and when you said china's bronze age was 4200 bc, yes you are correct.

4400 B.C.  I'll soon post links to prove this.

demon, the link you post doesn't agree with what you said, do you have a source for your claims because they seem controversial to a large degree.

This is a controversy, perhaps one that soars along the tomb of James, brother of Jesus, so I don't think there are many sources to confirm this.  However, I should tell you one thing:

China is written in Chinese as Middle-Country.  Everything outside were barbarians.  Like greek definition.  They considered everything upper and eastern to that as Eastern Barbarian.  BTW, this China is the HwanHe China. 

If those north and east are barbarian, How could they make such pyramids?

Why are they contradicting themselves by claiming them as China if they are barbarians?

It said that the size of the pyramid was a 3-storey building, not hundreds of metres high.

That's like saying a Carbon-10 atom is just 10amu when there are Carbon-14.  That pyramid was just one out of many(hundreds).

My point is that these Chinese are slowly lying, gradually holding position, as if they never seen these stuffs and recently found them.  Again, this is a controversy, just hang on tight to your common sense, because even I can't tell you anything that's real.

 

Grrr..
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 14:51
What China is basically doing is consolidating its position on its minorites.  By claiming Koguryo as a Chinese Kingdom, the Koreans are now therefore Chinese, and China hopes that the Koreans in Manchuria will lose some of their national sentiment and become more CHinese, and if they gain north KOrea in the bargain, even better for them.  Same thing goes with China destroying persian tombs in Sinkiang, and claiming that Ghengis Kahn was a Chinese hero.  That is my opinion....  Also demon, i'm assuming that the Baedal are of Buyeo stock...is this true?
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 15:04
Yup.  It was followed by Koguri.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 16:32
How can you claim these to be Manchurian, or Korean? I've seen the websites where you've taken these pics ( http://www.lauralee.com/chi_pyr.htm , and they all said that the pics of the pyramids were taken at Xi'an, Shaanxi province, the ancient capital of the Qin, which is hundreds (if not thousands) of miles away from Manchuria or Korea. Xi'an is in the Wei River valley, a tributary into the Yellow River, the heart of Chinese civilization. Your attempt to connect these pics and the research surronding them to the article at http://www.china.org.cn/english/15802.htm is baseless. That article refers to one "pyramid-shaped building" found in Inner Mongolia (which isn't even Manchuria by the way).

Edited by wuTao
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 16:55
Interesting...we have a conflict of sources.  Maybe I'll think more before I leap.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 17:08

If you want more internet sources about the Chinese pyramids, here are some websites:

http://members.tripod.com/~arescott/pathways/pyrofchi.html

http://www.earthquest.co.uk/china/china.html

http://www.trilobia.com/pyramids.htm

There's more sites if you just do a simple web search. Many of them aren't academic at all, linking the pyramids to extraterrestrials. The pyramids are no big secret - many sites features photos taken by tourists. The last website even offers an email address where you can contact them about a vacation package to visit the pyramids (if you're interested in checking them out in real life yourself). They are restricted, however, to prevent looting.

All these websites leave no doubt where the pyramids are located: Xi'an. As I've said, this is deep in central China, and the heart of Chinese civilization.



Edited by wuTao
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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 03:49

There are pyramids all around China. some are in Xian, in the heart of China, some are in Tibet, to the west, and some are in the Northeast.

I think demon is talking about the ones in the north east, but used the wrong pictures..

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 14:10

Hmmmm.  I am intrigued with your responces, wuTao, and I thank it very much.

What I found most interesting was the quote from one of your sites:

Cayce said that there were originally five great civilizations in the world. He called them the Five Projections. These civilizations were located in Egypt, Atlantis, Lemuria, Eden, and the Himalayas. The Himalayan civilization also known as the Gobi land or the Mongol land apparently stretched from what is now Tibet through the Tien Shan mountains (the traditional home of Shamballah or Shangri-La"), past Ching Hai lake to the fertile fields south of the Wei River valley and Xian the ancient capital of China and on up into the Gobi Desert of Mongolia.

I'll focus more on that.

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 15:15
Well you have to remember that even if these pyramids are in the Heart of Chinese civilization, One branch of the first Koreans, the Dongyi, also started out in China proper, and quite posibly came from India fleeing the Aryan invasion.  Also, as far as I know, the only civilization to construct pyramids in Asia was Koguryo.  Correct me if i'm wrong please.   Or are Pyramids a common thing in ancient asia?
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 16:19

There are pyramids in Yonaguni Islands in Japan...

As well as that ancient civ who made these pyramids...I'm now on a research to find any conclusions

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